Hoffman Amplifiers Tube Amplifier Forum
Amp Stuff => Tube Amp Building - Tweaks - Repairs => Topic started by: Geezer on December 22, 2010, 07:38:31 am
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Some background:
I hang around some over @ the "AmpGarage" forum.
A forum member there (erwin_ve, from the Netherlands) posted a clip of an amp that just blew me away.
I built a version of the amp.....here are the details.
The "Bluesmaster" is a "Dumble" style amp that normally has a full (extra) tonestack in the OverDrive section (known as "HRM", HotRodMarshall, HotRubberMonkey, whatever).
Erwin took the Bluesmaster preamp & married it to the overdrive section of a "normal" Overdrive Special (no HRM tonestack).
I then took his original design & "tweedified" it by using cathode bias & by lowering the filtering in the power amp.
The amp is big & fat in the clean section (not "too" clean, but still clean), but really shines in the OD section! Super touch response, & big bloom & sustain when you crank up the gain & volume.
The linked clip was recorded at a fairly low volume, thru an older Weber Sig12 in an open back cab.
Guitar = HSH Strat
http://soundcloud.com/dageezer/bluesmaster-non-hrm-demo
My version is attached.......original schematic can be found Here>>> http://ampgarage.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=13114&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=15&sid=841b9d13c915067a13dd3b720df7e647
Note: you must be a member @ The Amp Garage to view the thread/file
Many Thanks to Erwin (for the design), and to Tubenit (for drawing out the .sch file of my version).
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I really enjoyed that! It's a pleasure to see and hear your creations. You have a rare combination of talents.
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Incredible tone and remarkable playing (listening thru headphones).
That amp really has a sweet blooming dynamic to it. Sounds superb. Very very toneful.
Thanks for sharing your continued ingenuity!
With respect, Tubenit
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That is a really cool sound! :grin:
sluckey is right - very few have the talent to design/tweak amp circuits so successfully and play beautifully too.
If only there were an amp that sounds just as good but with fewer knobs. I know all the controls are needed to be able to dial it in "just so". That Soho '65 you were trying to reverse engineer a while back had an interesting approach though. IIRC there was a 6-position rotary switch which effectively had presets.
Merry Christmas & Happy Holidays guys!
Chip
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DRAFT layout. This may have numerous errors in it? I have NOT had time to check it, but thought I'd post it so another set of eyes can look it over.
This is one possible way to approach the layout.
Can someone take a look and critique for errors, please?
With respect, Tubenit
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Geezer,
Take a look at the red circles in your OD circuit:
The 250k is the OD level, right? Is the 1M an OD presence of some sort? I don't think I've ever seen that particular circuit before.
Thanks,
Dave
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Thanks Geezer once again you give us a good amp to build with soulfull tone and a few good licks to test it out with,( SWEET). Bill
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Geezer,
Take a look at the red circles in your OD circuit:
The 250k is the OD level, right? Is the 1M an OD presence of some sort? I don't think I've ever seen that particular circuit before.
Thanks,
Dave
Hey Dave!
Yes, the .001/1meg network is a treble bleed control for the OD section....it can be used to take off some of the hi-end hash for a smoother overdrive. Works very well.
G
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Thanks! I'll try it.
Dave
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nice sounding amp Geezer. blew me away from the first note.
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Geezer,
Not to butter your bread on both sides, but You Sir can play! Realy though, your a very good "gittar" man IMHO, I enjoyed it very much. I spent a lot of time hangin and playin in blues bars in Chgo. and IMHO, (FWIW) you could have sat in any night you wanted to. They, Chgo. would have loved your playin, you would have fit right in, belive me on this. Anyway......
I was thinkin of maybe doing a COS, or a TOS (with verb) build, but now you got me thinkin maybe I should build this amp. I'm more of a Fender man as a player, so I'm looking for the sustain that these 3 amps offer, but would like to build the smoothest/least crunch one of the 3. I like to listen to other players who have some crunch to their sound, but for myself, I lean towards a smoother sounding amp. Which of these 3 amps do you think is the smoothest sounding? Tubenit, how about you, which build would you suggest?
Thanks, Brad :smiley:
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I lean towards a smoother sounding amp. Which of these 3 amps do you think is the smoothest sounding? Tubenit, how about you, which build would you suggest?
Gosh, I don't know?? Geezer stated he might post another soundclip of his new amp but with more overdrive dialed in. Maybe wait to hear that clip and then decide?
I'm not sure anything I have done is a sweet sounding as this most recent BluezMeister clip & amp?
I converted the Carolina Overdrive Special to a Tweed OD because I'm gonna sell it to a friend (if he wants it. He is typically a Marshall fan). He wanted the TOS with active FX instead of the COS with reverb.
Having said that, I liked the COS alot. It was buttery smooth, IMO. The TOS is definitely easier to dial in and I have been more successful getting a wider clean to OD transition on the TOS. But for sheer smooth OD, the COS did that and also got that neat "blooming" that going on. The COS soundclip is here: http://www.el34world.com/Forum/index.php?topic=9637.0
I am thinking that Geezer's "BluezMeister" preamp and tone stack into the TOS overdrive section using a 5879 might be a pretty cool tone?
With respect, Tubenit
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I am thinking that Geezer's "BluezMeister" preamp and tone stack into the TOS overdrive section using a 5879 might be a pretty cool tone?
With respect, Tubenit
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would like to build the smoothest/least crunch one of the 3. I like to listen to other players who have some crunch to their sound, but for myself, I lean towards a smoother sounding amp. Which of these 3 amps do you think is the smoothest sounding?
Thanks, Brad :smiley:
Well, the BM is the most versitile amp so far.....i can get smooth or crunch by using the different preamp settings (jazz/rock, pab, mid boost) & OD trim/drive settings. It takes some time to get used to how it reacts, but it all in there somewhere!
I'm working on some (very) small tweaks & will update after I do a gig with it tonite.
G
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Geezer,
how did the gig go? what kind of music?
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Geezer,
how did the gig go? what kind of music?
Here's a sampler of what we do>> http://www.shenandoahweddings.org/Rumours%20Demo%2010-08.mp3
The amp performed great!
It was "one of those gigs".....couple guys showed up late, no time for sound check, so I was tweaking on the run all nite.
Quickly found out the "Jazz" setting didn't work for this type music live, got lost in the mix.
"Rock" setting was MUCH better, & with the footswitchable PAB boost & OD I had every tone I needed. Very responsive to guitar volume settings. Very "comfortable" amp, still a little bass heavy (had to run the bass pot all the way down) but these Bluesmasters are known for that. I'm going to do some tweaking (lowering) of the output coupling caps to try to tame it a bit.
Also going to try polyester caps to shave off some (very slight) high end.
All in all, it's "almost perfect"!
G
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Geezer,
Man, I LOVE that kind of music !!!!!!!! That's what I grew up with.
:icon_thumleft:
Down here in the Carolina at the ocean side, we still hear that kind of music in the mix of "Beach music"! Groups like the Embers, Band of OZ and the Fantastic Shakers knock that stuff out about as good as the originals & people will be up and shag dancing. Very fun stuff!
Glad the amp is working out so well for you. I'll look forward to hearing what your final tweaks are. Sure appreciate you sharing your handiwork on this amp and all the other innovative ones you've come up with.
The Orange Drop PS are also polyester like the Mallory's are & I think they are a little clearer/transparent sounding than the Mallory's to my ears.
With respect, Tubenit
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Hey Geezer, you guys sound real good. I bet people have a great time when you guys play out.
Nothin like a live band, that sounds like a band and not a factory building tanks IMHO. But as they say, to each their own. :laugh:
Brad :smiley:
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Thanks for the nice comments.....that demo is "live", no remixes or overdubs of vocals or instruments.
The singers are really great to work with (we have up to 5-part harmony going on sometimes), & the drummer is the best I've ever played with (he's on an electronic kit that was already setup at the place we recorded the demo's, but normally plays a really cool vintage Gretsch kit)
G
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They really sound like there alot of fun to play with Geezer nothin like a good group
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tight little band Geezer! I was just about to comment on the drums but you answered my question on it being an electronic kit on those songs. Vintage Gretsch set? very nice, I have one myself. :grin: What Orange Drops did you initially use on the build Geezer?
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What Orange Drops did you initially use on the build Geezer?
715P's.........and they are stayin' in!
I tried Mallory 150's & it muddied the tone, along with some nasty hash on top of the notes! Put ALL 715P's back in & the sweet tone is back (whew!)
Still workin' on the tweaks.....almost there.
G
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OK, did some more tweaks (I'll update later).
Here's ~6 minutes ( :rolleyes: ) of noodlin'....just twisting the trim/drive/ratio knobs of the OD to see what tones are available.
I start with some cleans for reference, then try to play similar riffs to see how it reacts to different settings, then end with a few clean chords again.
This is by no means all the gain available, but in the realm that I usually play. I'll try to do some higher gain stuff later.
http://soundcloud.com/dageezer/noodles-on-the-bm-01032011mp3/s-604Q3
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Whew...that sounds absolutely great. I'll be modding my old d-build to those specs as soon as you get your latest tweaks posted. It's already cathode biased.
(And practicing a lot -- your "noodling" is pretty inspiring)
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That's an incredible beautiful sweet tone! Maybe the most articulate touch sensitive tone I've heard.
Very nice! Congrats on your creativity and persistence in achieving your own tone.
With respect, Tubenit
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Sounds really great ! You have a nice touch on Your playing !
I'm struggling with myself whether to convert my TOS-build to cathode bias or not. Yours and tubenit's amps sounds stellar so maybe it is time to make the move.
Thanks again for the clip !
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That sure is purdy sounding Geezer. I hope to start on my own this week. Nice playing man.
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Geezer, Iv'e said it before and I'll say it again, "you can play son"! (not talking down to you , just slang/ blues club lingo that was and still is very complementry, the world's a Big place and everywhere has different "phrases" that can mean different things in different places) I have a hard time trying to interact with you guys in this "way" instead of when we're just hangin out at a "club" and playin/ talkin stuff. I'd bet a good number of "use" here would get along great playin together.
Brad :smiley:
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Thanks again guys!
Here's some high(er) gain stuff.....sorry for the repetitiveness of the phrasing, but I was trying to play a little, then tweak the controls while holding a note, then play the same type again to compare.
Keep in mind that with the click of a footswitch, she goes back to perfectly clean in an instant.
Also, there are some "glitches" / clicks in the recording for some reason....it's the program, not the amp.
http://soundcloud.com/dageezer/higainnoodles-on-the-bm-01032011mp3
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Very very nice! Thanks for sharing.
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I assume you are using the preamp boost on the 2nd round of noodles, but how about the mid boost? How about on the clean set? Are either of the boosts engaged?
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Well demo'd - nice touch & expression - that amp sounds like a players dream - taking you where you want where you want to go - and further...
It's amazing the amount of tonal achievement in a short timeframe between the Tweed ODS and the Tweedy Bluesmeister. Would appreciate your comparative opinion between the two and to what degree they cover the same ground.
I think there are many who seek to attain geezerdom :wink:
Thanks for sharing
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Gee whiz, Geezer !!!!!!!!!!
:icon_thumleft: :icon_thumleft:
I don't think there's any tone out there that I like better than that!!
WOW !!!!! That's remarkable!
If my amp turns out 85% that sweet sounding, I'll be estatic.
(I'm planning to attend converting my Tweed OD Lite reverb into this amp. It's in a small combo cab. Already got parts from Hoffman & plan to start the turret board asap)
With respect, Tubenit
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I assume you are using the preamp boost on the 2nd round of noodles, but how about the mid boost? How about on the clean set? Are either of the boosts engaged?
Yes on the PAB, no on the mid-boost
I like the PAB mildly on all the time, even on the cleans (fattens it up), so I have disconnected the PAB from the relay & simply have a small resistor to lift the mid pot ground lug a bit, & just use the mid pot as the "PAB" adjustment.
On the mid-boost, I don't care for that tone, but I do have a slightly larger treble cap in place (I think it's a 330p vs the orginal 250p....I'll update it on the schem later when I get a chance to check)
I am trying a different "boost" for the unused "PAB" relay.....lifting the ground lug of the OD "trim" pot (just slightly, using a small value pot as an ajustment) for a slight gain increase...we'll see how that goes. I got the idea from TAlbany over @ the TAG forum.
The only problem I'm still working out is trying to balance the tones between the clean & OD (to "perfection" :rolleyes: ) When I get the cleans right, the OD is a bit too bright, & when the OD is right, the cleans are slightly too dark. I may have to put a small bright cap on a relay that is activated when the OD is disengaged (?)....still working.
Oh, almost forgot.....in the hi-gain clips (all the clips so far, for that matter) that's a 12AY7 in the V1 socket!
G
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Keep us posted Im waiting on parts .Bill :angel
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Geezer,
I'm trying to figure out what tranformer set to use.
What is the transformer set you are using? What is the OT rated for, 30w, (tweed pro?) 40w,(tweed or BF?) ? Some guys like to use bigger iron for the OT, and some like smaller, what are you using for this build? IIRC, you guess-ta-mate this amp at around 20-ish watts? So even a 30w OT would be over kill.
Hammonds got a few that look like they would work. RCA book (RC-30) says effective load resistance (plate-to-plate) for 6L6GC as any where from 3.8k to 6.6K in grid bias. RC-19 has 6L6GB listed as same for grid bias, but also has 9k (ELR, p-to-p) listed for cathode bias. This is still a little confuseing to me. In this build were not looking for max power from a PP pair of 6L6's, so we choose for tone and touch response? But which way do you go, higher or lower resistance and how dose it effect the tone and responce of the amp?
I have a hammond, 272BX that seems close to what you have spec.-wise, 300-0-300, 100mA DC, works out to 424vdc @ 156mA (?), but it's only rated for 2A on the 5v sec. I also have a 270DX that should also work 275-0-275, 90mA DC, works out to 368vdc @ 146mA (?), but again only 2A on the 5v sec. 5U4 is 3A. I'm wondering how much sag it's adding overall to the bloom on this amp? Do you feel Hammonds have enough in reserve on the 5v sec. to use a 5U4?
Thanks, Brad :smiley:
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Brad, I'm using a Super Reverb PT (330-0-330, 200mA) and an old OT from a 50's PA amp that ran 2x6L6's cathode biased.....I suspect it to be an ~~30w unit.
Your Hammond PT's are going to be too whimpy (nothing personal :smiley: ).....you need at least 150mA, the more the better. Larger OT (overkill) is good, too. With these amps, most the tone is generated in the preamp (at least @ lower volumes).
I'm now using a SS plug in the recto socket.....just liked it better in the end.
Jeff
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Here's the final schematic.
Let me know if you have any questions or see any mistakes.
Geezer
edit: the PI lift resistor @the NFB connection is 47R, not 470R as originally labeled.... updated schematic
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So what did you label your front end knobs and did those two caps in parallel get rid of the problem you were having between the clean and OD channels . Thanks Bill
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So what did you label your front end knobs and did those two caps in parallel get rid of the problem you were having between the clean and OD channels . Thanks Bill
Front panel drawing attached.
Yes on the parallel caps.
.005 .01 was too small & .02 was too large, but the parallel combo equal to .015 was just right in balancing the clean & OD.
At least 1x real Dumble (#183) used this value in that slot.
G
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A note to those building a similar amp:
This amp is based on amps designed & built by Dumble, each one of which is individual & custom tuned to the player it was built for....each amp is very different.
Be prepared to tweak & adjust resistor & cap values to YOUR tastes & playing styles. Coupling caps, grid stoppers, snubber cap locations/values & plate voltages are all very important to finding "your" tone. I seriously doubt you will fire it up & have the "magic" tone you've always wanted (although I suppose it's possible).
Finding your tone is acheivable, & you will learn more than you can imagine (as I have), but you need to be patient & DON'T GIVE UP! If you get frustrated, walk away for a few hours (or days), then come back with fresh eyes & ears. That's what worked for me. Try different things to see how the circuit reacts (the value of alligator clip wires/jumpers is incalculable in this area!)
I will help with any questions I am able to answer, or will refer you to other places to get the help you need.
Geezer
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Brad, I'm using a Super Reverb PT (330-0-330, 200mA) and an old OT from a 50's PA amp that ran 2x6L6's cathode biased.....I suspect it to be an ~~30w unit.
Your Hammond PT's are going to be too whimpy (nothing personal :smiley: ).....you need at least 150mA, the more the better. Larger OT (overkill) is good, too. With these amps, most the tone is generated in the preamp (at least @ lower volumes).
I'm now using a SS plug in the recto socket.....just liked it better in the end.
Jeff
Thanks, Jeff. I read back through the whole post and I don't know where I got the idea this was a 20w build. I think I'm thinking of one of the TOS, or COS variants. So I was thinking 1/2 power > 1/2 current, so my PT's could work. Oh well.
I seem to remember now that I had bought them to do a 6L6 champ build.
I'll get a standard Fender set, for 6L6, 30w/40w amp, bassman or super, maybe a pro? I know Doug has nice BF/Tweed style trans. sets that will work well for this build, I'll look there first.
Thanks again, Brad :smiley:
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Geezer isnt it amazing how with a sensitive circuit that such things as guitar pickups and tubes could cause you to have to tweek a circuit slightly to get the sound your after. That being said I just picked up some 12 way switches and built a cap, sub box. Ive been dying to try it out more.
different question sorry,when you used el34 instead of 6l6 in your other build what did have to change if anything in the cathode biased circuit.
Thanks Bill
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Be prepared to tweak & adjust resistor & cap values to YOUR tastes & playing styles
There is an editable schematic and Hoffman style layout right here:
http://www.el34world.com/Forum/index.php?topic=9498.0
Check for errors and make sure schematic and layout match OK.
With respect, Tubenit
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when you used el34 instead of 6l6 in your other build what did have to change if anything in the cathode biased circuit.
No, didn't change the bias, although the EL34's were biased a little cold, so the Rk could have been lowered a bit (maybe 220R, 200R or 180R?)
There is an editable schematic and Hoffman style layout right here:
http://www.el34world.com/Forum/index.php?topic=9498.0
THANKS T!
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Geezer was generous enough to provide a revised and edited schematic and also edited the layout board to more closely reflect his build.
http://www.el34world.com/Forum/index.php?topic=9498.msg99329#msg99329
With respect, Tubenit
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Thanks Geezer and Tubenit. good stuff guys!! :grin:
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This stuff is just awesome - great playing, and greater tinkering. My list of "to do" work keeps getting longer :grin:
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Geezer if you could only have two on your footpedel which would they be obviously one would be the channel select, but what would the other be.Thanks Bill
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Sorry in looking at your schematic again i noticed you had the channel switch and trim boost on the reley.is the switch showing next to the mids what used to be yourPAB but then you said you ended up having that on all the time anyway.
The reason i ask is I was just looking at the front plate example you had and there was no switch for it, probably a later change .Thanks Bill
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PAB is just a ground lift (increased resistance) of the mid pot......I have mine "hard wired", so there is no switch for that on mine.
The 2x relays I have are:
OD select, front panel switch and footswitch controlled.
Trim boost, no front panel switch, only controlled by the footswitch. It is also just a ground lift of the trim pot, but it works really well....very useful.
I'm having the front panel made as I type this, so that's an indication "I'm done" with this amp!
Attached a mock-up of the panel.
G
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Hey guys,
Do you think this will work? I have a set of transformers for this already, I've had a SE 6L6 build on my list for a while now, any ideas or comments are welcome.
I'm tryin to attach an SCH schemo I modified, I'll have to read Dougs notes on how to post attachments.
Brad :smiley:
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Willabe,
Geezer tried a 6L6 single ended version of a Dumble build maybe 6 months ago or so. (May 2010) Didn't work out. Look back in the Tweaks forum around May.
IF you have the correct trannies, you could do a EL84 version that is successful:
http://www.el34world.com/Forum/index.php?topic=9149.0
With respect, Tubenit
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Well, she's done & in the cab (finally!....WHEW)
I had a couple of extra mini-switch holes, so I put switchable bright caps on the master (Bright) & the trim pot (OD Bright)
Here's a poor pic taken with my flip video
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very nice :grin:
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Another great build.Geezer how do you do your faceplates. At the moment i am using a coloured vinyl sheet with a sticky back with DYMO clear tape for the lettering and the a another clear vinyl sheet over the top. It looks ok from a distance.
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Great demos Geezer, two questions.
What speaker were you using during the recordings?
What effects device were you using in the loop?
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Nice job on the cab Geezer! That's one fine looking amp! :grin:
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Congrats on the project--tasty chops, man. Way sharp looking cabinet. Thanks for sharing your journey with the likes of us; I, for one, remain in awe. Regards
dennis
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Guys,
Please accept my apology ......... I found an error on the Hoffman Style Geezer Tweed BluezMeister layout. Left out the
slope resistor.
For those of you who already downloaded the layout, please go and download the revised/correct one here:
http://www.el34world.com/Forum/index.php?topic=9498.msg99329#msg99329
With respect, Tubenit
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Please accept my apology
Well, I missed it, too!
Thanks for all your work on the drawings!
G
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Great demos Geezer, two questions.
What speaker were you using during the recordings?
What effects device were you using in the loop?
Thanks Conrad!
The speaker is an older Weber "Signature 12" (Ceramic, one of the 1st Ted had made)....I think it's Eminence made.
Not sure if Weber still has them made the same way, or if maybe you could contact Eminence & see if they have the specs, but it's a great little (inexpensive) speaker.
For these recordings, I don't have any effects in the loop, just an 18' cord plugged in to simulate something in the loop. I added a little verb & delay in mixcraft.
My normal stage setup is to run an old Digitech unit in the loop for just a little delay & verb, but I'm not happy with the quality of those effects anymore (& the signal degradation) so I'm looking for a good used TC Electronics unit or something similar.
Geezer
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Another great build.Geezer how do you do your faceplates. At the moment i am using a coloured vinyl sheet with a sticky back with DYMO clear tape for the lettering and the a another clear vinyl sheet over the top. It looks ok from a distance.
I have developed a (cheap) technique:
I use a free program ( www.frontpanelexpress.com/ ) to do the design work, then use another free program ( www.primopdf.com/ ) to "print" the plate to a PDF file.
I then either print the PDF file (@ 100%) on my home printer, or take it to Kinkos or Staples & have them print it. Use either card stock, or a source for cheaper & heavier duty stock is to get white poster board & cut it to size.
Then have the panel laminated.
Trim the laminated edges, then use an exacto knife to cut out the control openings & you're set!
Most plates cost me from $5 to $10.
If I were building the amp for someone else (resale), I would either have a plate made at a sign shop or at one of the online makers specializing in amp plates, but for my own amp, this technique works great!
The faceplate "mockup" (below) is the exact file I printed. Notice that I even put in the correct size holes so I knew exactly where & how large to cut out the control holes.
The frontpanelexpress program has a small learning curve, but is simple to use once you get used to it.
G
(http://www.el34world.com/Forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=10719.0;attach=21266;image)
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Here's a good picture of an amp (Vista 12, aka "Sligh Vox", aka "Vox on the Run") with one of my home-made plates.
I'll try to take a better pic of the TweedMaster & post it later.
G
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Geezer thanks for sharing that program with us.Bill
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Hey Geezer,
I was looking at the layout vs your amp and the Mid/Bass are different. Is this a typo? Your amp has T/M/B but the layout has T/B/M.
doh! nevermind. :laugh:
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Hey is there any way you guys could put the new layout and schematic up on a .Gif file so i can print it out i cant remember how i got JSchem to convert for me last time and yes I reread the post from then and still couldnt make it work, i think i need to download bitmap might be helpfull to me.Bill
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Please, always check for errors and compare the schematic with the layout.
With respect, Tubenit
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Thanks guys your the best.Bill
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How about this, using the reverb mixer tube right before the output tube? Clean and OD preamp, then passive FX, then 2 tube reverb, use verb mix tube to feed OP stage.
Not sure what to do with the NFB.
Thanks, Brad :smiley:
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Geezer with the 250r resister in the bias stage are these 6l6,s or 5881,s biased alot hotter than TOS amp was.Thanks Bill
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Yes, slightly hotter, but still below max dissipation.
I've been trying some other tubes:
E34L JJ's, OK, but a bit too stiff
Old RCA 6L6GC Blackplates, really good, very warm tone
Old 60's Sylvania 6L6GC's, the best so far, warm & BIG sounding, smooth....these are staying in for now.
G
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Isnt it amazing when rolling tubes how differant tubes just pull something out of the tone off the amp. weather positive or negative the right set off tubes for any given circuit really make a differance. Thanks Bill
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Just now got to listen, and downloaded the schem as well. Sounds great, sweet playing, and thank you (and everyone else) for sharing your work!
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Geezer
Your clips are great.
I have a question concerning the latest schematics: is the first gain stage plate resistor really changed from 220k to 121K?
Just wondering out loud...
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Yes, the schem is correct.
"High Plate" ODS is usually 220k V1a & 150k V1b
"Bluesmaster" is 150k V1a & 121k V1b
I accidently switched the plate values when I was "re" building this amp into the TweedMaster, making V1a 121k & V1b 150k.
After I realized my mistake, I swapped them back to "correct", but didn't like the tone as well, so I switched them back to the "incorrect" positions.
G
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Thank you, sir.
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I just joined a couple of days ago and I am completely amazed at the level of knowledge, creativity and incredible tones that are coming out of my computer headphones! The tones in the Geezers clips of the Tweedy Bluesmeister non-HRM are ear candy! I realize this is going to be a huge undertaking as this will be my first amp build but from the various posts I have read the community is a great resource. I have some electronics background but it is all analog and digital, not much in the way of tubes. I am a bit stumped though. First, where and which is the correct layout and schematic for the Geezer Tweedy Bluesmeister non-HRM, and second what program do I need to download and open a .sch file, or should I just print the pics. Also I know the type/brand of componants can make a huge difference so is there a BOM available? I appreciate any help!
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http://www.el34world.com/Forum/index.php?board=12.0 Look around in here.
Brad :smiley:
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sjturbo,
I realize this is going to be a huge undertaking as this will be my first amp build but from the various posts I have read the community is a great resource. I have some electronics background but it is all analog and digital, not much in the way of tubes
I am not trying to talk you out of building this amp. If you know how to work on one safely and you really want the amp, go for it.
Having said that, ......... this is a VERY complicated build. You will have to be able to punch out your own blank chassis, create your own layout board from scratch or use a paralleled turret/tag board, use a good layout inside the amp, have good soldering skills ................ etc.......
After you have built the amp, you will have to be able to TWEAK the tone to your personal taste, because these amps are different and perhaps more tempermental than something like a 5E3 Fender Deluxe clone. You can learn what to tweak but it will take time to figure it all out. We can help you.
I've built close to two dozen different amps. I've learned ALOT about trouble shooting thanks to the forum guys and Sluckey in particular. Both the Tweed BluezMeister an Tweed Overdrive Special are wonderful amps but they took ALOT of time to build and even more time to tweak to get the tone I want.
Now if you're truly somewhat knowledgeable about electronics, a very patience and persistent individual who doesn't mind taking reasonable risks that may or may not work out to your satisfaction, then give it a shot.
The first amp I ever built had the most difficult problem to diagnose of any amp I built. It literally took me 6 wkends to find the problem and fix it. This build is waaaaaaayyyyyyy more complicated. So you need to ask yourself if you have the patience and persistence to take this on?
Honestly, if you want to attempt this, I'll watch your posts and offer help and suggestions & I am sure others will also. I also will cheer you on all the way and be rooting for your success!
Think thru this one before you take it on. Make sure it's what you're wanting to do.
With respect & support, Tubenit
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Thanks tubenit!
I think I have the basic electronics knowledge to work through this but I will need to bone up on tubes and wiring protocal. The board layout and chassis will be a challange since I'm not familiar with the spacing, ect., and I'm not sure what sizes are needed for the board and chassis, can you give me some ideas please? I do have the time and persistance to see it through. I'm hoping that others that will build and have built the amp can post some gut shots that will give me some ideas for the layout. One thing I noticed is that this build appears to be similar to the BN d'lite and I have seen some photo's of that amp. I do appreciate the offer of support!!
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I have added a DRAFT Bill of Materials to the SCH thread. Check for errors and compare with schematic.
http://www.el34world.com/Forum/index.php?topic=9498.0
With respect, Tubenit
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Jeff I have to say the good Lord loves a man who helps people for no other reason than,
they asked.
Thanks Bill
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"a very patience and persistent individual"
so true.
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THANKS to Doug/EL34 for his help creating an accurate Hoffman style layout for this amp.
The SCH file for this amp has been UPDATED and edited to simplify reading and gathering info.
The file is far more organized at this point with all the essential info in one place now.
http://www.el34world.com/Forum/index.php?topic=9498.0
This is a great amp and really super fun to play, IMO!!
With respect, Tubenit
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One last clip of this amp....a higher-gain version of an earlier demo, showing the bloom & sustain available.
All OD.... http://soundcloud.com/dageezer/tweedmaster-demo-higain-floyd
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Geezer,
I'll be calling on your help once i get this thing wired up. :grin:
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Wow!!! That may be my favorite tone that I've heard from your amps yet! That sounds incredibly sweet. It definitely shows the blooming with the notes swelling.
With respect, Tubenit
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Wow!!! That may be my favorite tone that I've heard from your amps yet! That sounds incredibly sweet. It definitely shows the blooming with the notes swelling.
With respect, Tubenit
Wow!!! indeed. Beautiful.
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Very inspiring Geezer made me want to get my guitar out An trade riffs, great backing track i can get lost those for days. The tone on your amp was killer.
Bill
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My playing is nowhere on par with Geezer's, IMO. However, here is some slow blues showing the tone contrast between the clean and OD on my small combo TBM with 6V6's. I like the clean tone alot and the clean here has the mid switch engaged adding mids.
On the OD, it wasn't cranked. The trim and drive and level all set about about "3". There is alot more OD on tap.
http://www.soundclick.com/player/single_player.cfm?songid=10251365&q=hi&newref=1
Clean ....... playing with fingers & neck pickup
clean ........ fingers and mid/bridge pickup
OD (at 2:38) ....... playing with fingers and neck pickup
OD ....... playing with pick and mid/bridge til end
Only some EQ and a very small amount of delay was added in the mix.
With respect, Tubenit
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Excellent tone & playing!
I like the way you build the intensity & emotion of your playing throughout the song....really shows what we were trying to acheive with this amp, the ability to easily go from clean to mean at reasonable volumes, using just the amp itself (vs OD pedals) & the guitar's volume & tone controls.
Way to go.....give us more! :icon_thumleft:
ps.....is the schematic & layout updated/current with what you have in your amp at this point?
G
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Thanks for the nice comments!
"is the schematic & layout updated/current with what you have in your amp at this point?"
Yes, I posted my current schematic (& yours) in the SCH library.
However, to avoid confusion ..... I did not post my layout, BUT the Hoffman style "standard" layout that is posted can be easily converted to what I used. The OD on "the standard" is pretty close to mine anyway.
With respect, Tubenit
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Made time to cut some Tweed BluezMeister boards.
You can find them on this page
http://www.hoffmanamps.com/MyStore/catalog/parts12.htm
Here's a pic of one with the lugs installed, all laced up and soldered
The bottom one with no lugs is the one I sell
I updated the layout to look more like what the actual board looks like.
I renamed the Schematic and layout files so it is easier to figure out which is which.
The documents are in this post
http://www.el34world.com/Forum/index.php?topic=9498.0
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The boards look really GREAT!!! Thanks for doing those for us! It'll definitely make the build easier to put together.
With respect, Tubenit
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I had a chance to play my small 6V6 combo version of Geezer's Tweed BluezMeister this wkend with the band. It sounded really nice with the band. Got some nice compliments on the tone. I played it once before but made a few more tweaks that made a significant difference to the tone I was looking for. (My tweaks are in the SCH file)
I added a relay switch in this small chassis by double deckering it over the LTPI section. So the clean/OD is footswitchable. Works excellent. The amp is super quiet at idle whether on OD or clean. The relay did not seem to add any significant noise that I can hear.
The overdrive is the clearest (not clean) smoothest OD of any amp I've played or built. Creamy smooth and since my last tweaks I am getting similar nice harmonics like I get on the Tweed Overdrive Special.
The OD cuts thru the mix just great!
I had the volume at 5-6, all OD pots around 3-4 range & Mstr volume at about 3. No problem at all being heard thru the mix. Switching between the clean and OD is nicely balanced with only the slightest volume bump on OD. PAB and mid boost were both on. With the guitar vol on "8", the notes bloom and sustain well.
The clean has a very warm, natural and full tone to it. Geezer designed this amp to have a nice contrast between the clean and OD. It has better contrast between the clean and OD than the TOS, IMO. This clean channel has a very rich sound to it, IMO & the mids are more accented than something like a midscooped Fender.
This is my favorite combo amp that I've built or owned. Most versatile combo I have owned also. It is a very fun amp to play and has that "wow factor" tonewise that I am looking for. In contrast, I built a typical D-HRM design before (cathode biased) & thought it was a good sounding amp but it definitely did not "wow" me. Geezer's design has more of the tone I want than the original D-HRM design I tried. Wished I was a better player cause this amp has better tone then I have playing ability.
I still think the TOS is more touch sensitive & has a better "blooming" feature. But the overdrive on this TBM is creamy smooth. Both have great sustain & harmonics. The TOS has a dash of chime to it that I think maybe prevents it from being as smooth as the TBM?
This amp is around the same size as a 5E3 combo. So it's very easy to carry around. I'm using a digital delay or my FX-reverb unit with it in the passive effects loop. I'm using a quasi Tube Screamer homemade clone with it but I use the LM833 chip which I prefer more than the 4558 chip. I think the LM833 is smoother and less edgy than the 4558 chip, IMO. However, I almost never use the OD effects pedal unless a specific song calls for it.
Just thought I'd share how much I like Geezer's design. It's a winner for me. I anticipated it being noisey at idle being a small combo but it's very quiet especially for a high gain amp.
With respect, Tubenit
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Thanks Tubnit I had always worried that the switching over the board would be noisy, thanks for sharing that it worked for you, I might try it on the next tight build Im in.
Bill
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excellent news Tubenit!! Did you find the 100k-L pots more useful than the 250k-L on the Trim, OD Level and OD Drive? What tubes and speaker/s did you settle on?
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I never tried the 250kl pots on the OD. I started off with 100k pots, so I don't have a comparison. Having said that, Geezer gave me some of his measurements on his pots & if you factor in the differences in resistors going into the pots, there are some similarities (I think) to what we're using.
I used a Red, White and Blues Emminence speaker. I have NOS 5751's in V1 & V2. Almost every combination of tubes I've used have sounded good but this so far seems to be the best balance for smoothness of what I like. LTPI is 12AX7. 5V4 rectifier with JJ 6V6's. Using a 12AV7 in V1 (similar to 12AY7) and a 12AX7 in V2 sounded pretty good also.
With respect, Tubenit
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I am thinking that Geezer's "BluezMeister" preamp and tone stack into the TOS overdrive section using a 5879 might be a pretty cool tone?
Hi all - great stuff. Did the above mentioned spin ever get tried?? thx.
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Yeah, I did a kinda sorta version of it. Using a one knob BluezMeister into a TOS OD and power amp.
You'll maybe need to compare the BluezMeister tone stack with the one knob version I did. What I did was measure the values with the TBM pots and use some fixed resistors instead.
I am very happy with the tone of it & feel like it gives me an improved clean tone. Having said that, I think the OD lost a little something in the vowel tone so it's a trade off.
With respect, Tubenit
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Good job T another successfull experiment in good tone.
Thanks Bill
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Hello all -
Starting to collect part for the BM - got my boards from Hoffman today.
I have never implemented any relays in any of my amps. Seems like this one wants some is that right? How are they wired up?? Should I just get the 6V type??
I am a real nubes with them -- is there good info out there? Seems like the BM schematics show the switches but not the relays. Any trick to having both?? thx again for making this available to all of us!!
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I drew this up for a build I'm working on.
It has a panel switch with an LED and an LED foot switch.
I think it's right, but I'd wait to see till one of the guys here says it's correct.
This is the link to Dougs schem. that I based it on.
http://www.el34world.com/projects/relay_switch.htm
This is the link to Dougs limit resistor/LED current cal.
http://www.el34world.com/php/LedCurrent.htm
Brad :icon_biggrin: