Hoffman Amplifiers Tube Amplifier Forum

Amp Stuff => Tube Amp Building - Tweaks - Repairs => Topic started by: plexi50 on June 13, 2011, 09:00:52 pm

Title: Magnatone 421 Tremelo & Vibrato Issue
Post by: plexi50 on June 13, 2011, 09:00:52 pm
I recapped a Magnatone 421 amp today and it sounds very nice and has some good sounding breakup. Problem is the tremelo and Vibrato dont work. I have checked all the resistor and so far they are all within close tolerances. I may have to lift the ends of a few resistors to get the proper reading out of cicuit. I cant find the schematic as of yet
Title: Re: Magnatone 421 Tremelo & Vibrato Issue
Post by: John on June 13, 2011, 09:33:12 pm
*deleted huge image.. sorry!*

http://www.bustedgear.com/images/schematics/schematic_Magnatone_421.gif (http://www.bustedgear.com/images/schematics/schematic_Magnatone_421.gif)

That's what I found; hope it helps!
Title: Re: Magnatone 421 Tremelo & Vibrato Issue
Post by: plexi50 on June 13, 2011, 09:54:13 pm
John my magnatone 421 thanks you as do i  :worthy1:
Title: Re: Magnatone 421 Tremelo & Vibrato Issue
Post by: PRR on June 13, 2011, 11:37:34 pm
Do you know the ELL80 tube is worth more than the amp?
Title: Re: Magnatone 421 Tremelo & Vibrato Issue
Post by: plexi50 on June 14, 2011, 07:44:48 am
Do you know the ELL80 tube is worth more than the amp?

Never seen this amp before. Was this a bad design?
Title: Re: Magnatone 421 Tremelo & Vibrato Issue
Post by: sluckey on June 14, 2011, 08:58:22 am
I think PRR was commenting about how rare that tube is today. About the only place to find them is on eBay. But hey, that pair of varistors are much more valuable than that tube.

About your problem... Since neither trem nor vib work, look for something common such as the oscillator tube, associated components, or switch. Not much to go bad. Should be a quick fix. Measure the plate voltage on the oscillator (V3 pin 6). If it is a steady dc level, the oscillator ain't working. If the voltage is fluctuating, the oscillator is working and you need to look beyond the plate, ie, coupling cap, INT pot, FS jack, or MODULATION SELECTOR switch.
Title: Re: Magnatone 421 Tremelo & Vibrato Issue
Post by: John on June 14, 2011, 10:03:28 am
Do you know the ELL80 tube is worth more than the amp?

Never seen this amp before. Was this a bad design?

From what little I read, some people think the Magnatone was actually a finer amp than the equivalent Fender, but never got the cachet. For whatever that's worth (certainly less than that ELL80)  :laugh:
Title: Re: Magnatone 421 Tremelo & Vibrato Issue
Post by: plexi50 on June 14, 2011, 10:32:38 am
The voltage on pin 6 of V3 is 19.00 VDC and stationary. 170 VDC on the PS node side. Schem says 220 VDC ??

The 270K resistor on pin 6 of V3B was reading 240M. I took it out of circuit and it reads the same. Repaced with 270K

All other resistors in the amp read thier correct values

I am working on the .01 and other caps in this circuit now
Title: Re: Magnatone 421 Tremelo & Vibrato Issue
Post by: plexi50 on June 14, 2011, 12:26:44 pm
Working. There is an astounding difference between the tremelo and vibrato. Either one is beautiful. The tremelo is harsher in the pulse and the vibrato is smoother and sweeter. Plate pin 6 270K resistor was bad. Quess what it was?
Title: Re: Magnatone 421 Tremelo & Vibrato Issue
Post by: Willabe on June 14, 2011, 12:34:39 pm
Sweet.

Hows it sound compared to the Warbler?


     Thanks,    Brad         :icon_biggrin:
Title: Re: Magnatone 421 Tremelo & Vibrato Issue
Post by: sluckey on June 14, 2011, 12:42:46 pm
Quote
Plate pin 6 270K resistor was bad. Quess what it was?
You said it measured 240M.

If the pic is a clue, I'd guess V2 and V3 were in the wrong holes.
Title: Re: Magnatone 421 Tremelo & Vibrato Issue
Post by: plexi50 on June 14, 2011, 04:37:12 pm
Quote
Plate pin 6 270K resistor was bad. Quess what it was?
You said it measured 240M.

If the pic is a clue, I'd guess V2 and V3 were in the wrong holes.


Yes. A 12AU7 was in V2 and a 12AX7 was in V3. I put the preamp tubes in the wrong sockets.  How can a 270K resistor read 2M removed from the board? The color bands are 270K
Title: Re: Magnatone 421 Tremelo & Vibrato Issue
Post by: sluckey on June 14, 2011, 07:28:43 pm
Quote
A 12AU7 was in V2 and a 12AX7 was in V3.
That's the correct position.

Quote
How can a 270K resistor read 2M removed from the board?
It's carbon comp. Pack the carbon particles tight for small value resistors. Pack'em loose for higher value resistors. When exposed to too much heat, carbon particles expand, becoming less tightly packed, thus increasing in resistance. Heck, carbon is ever expanding, just like the universe. A cc resistor will increase in value even if it's sitting on the shelf.

Title: Re: Magnatone 421 Tremelo & Vibrato Issue
Post by: plexi50 on June 14, 2011, 07:55:26 pm
Im sorry i have it backwards. The 12AX7 was in V2 and 12AU7 in V3. After changing the 270K i saw the tube chart in the amp and found my error. Yes on the expanding carbon and value range. But i have never seen one drift that far out of spec. It's a first