Hoffman Amplifiers Tube Amplifier Forum

Amp Stuff => Tube Amp Building - Tweaks - Repairs => Topic started by: LooseChange on September 01, 2011, 01:57:40 pm

Title: Vox AC4TV - on the bench - Fixed - Let's talk about the circuit now.
Post by: LooseChange on September 01, 2011, 01:57:40 pm
I'm working on a Vox AC4TV (Schematic attached).
Sound not getting through.
Trouble seems to be the second half of the 12AX7...
I used a listening amp and I get sound on the 12AX7 pin 2 but not pin 1 and 3.
The B+ feeding the second half of the 12AX7 is 287v
Pin 1: 279v, pin 2: 0, pin 3: 5v
Obviously pin 1 is wrong but the 220k is good.
I think there is a bad solder joint and I was hoping someone could tell be what the voltages around the components connected to pin 2 and 3 should be.

I ask for your help because the PC board is tight and hard to work with out of the cabinet.

Thanks!
Title: Re: Vox AC4TV - on the bench - Little help please
Post by: VMS on September 01, 2011, 02:24:09 pm
Maybe C6 is bad.

Gain stage looks like some kind of boot-strapped pseudo split-load stage.   :dontknow:

Title: Re: Vox AC4TV - on the bench - Little help please
Post by: LooseChange on September 01, 2011, 02:33:22 pm
C6 is good. I get signal through to pin 2.
Yeah, I don't know what you call that but you would think with that arrangment there should be some voltage on pin 2?
Title: Re: Vox AC4TV - on the bench - Little help please
Post by: phsyconoodler on September 01, 2011, 02:54:19 pm
Try measuring for AC voltage.Plug in your listening amp and measure the AC at pin 7 and then at pin 2 with the pots all the way up.You my have a broken volume or tone pot which will block the signal from getting through.
Title: Re: Vox AC4TV - on the bench - Little help please
Post by: LooseChange on September 01, 2011, 02:57:51 pm
I get signal at pin 2 and pin 7. Checked the Volume pot... All good.
No signal at pin 1 and 3.
Title: Re: Vox AC4TV - on the bench - Little help please
Post by: stingray_65 on September 01, 2011, 03:00:16 pm
Dumb Question here Dan,

Is the tube bad? did you try a replacement?

What about the socket? Re-tentioned it?

Ray
Title: Re: Vox AC4TV - on the bench - Little help please
Post by: stratele52 on September 01, 2011, 03:06:23 pm
Loosechange , have you tried a new 12AX7 , you don't write nothing about that , I guess not.

I just read the answer of stingray , he is right .

Have you a bad solder or socket contact pin 1 ?
Title: Re: Vox AC4TV - on the bench - Little help please
Post by: stingray_65 on September 01, 2011, 03:20:21 pm
I just read the answer of stingray , he is right .

LOL! :icon_biggrin: NEWBS! they crack me up :l2:

Ask my Ex she'll tell you how right I am.

JK stratele JK

Ray

{edit-- quote-tag fixed --PRR}
Title: Re: Vox AC4TV - on the bench - Little help please
Post by: LooseChange on September 01, 2011, 03:32:33 pm
Tube is good. Pin one tests good for solder joints.
What I am looking for is an approximation for correct voltages at pins 1, 2 and 3.
Thanks guys!
Title: Re: Vox AC4TV - on the bench - Fixed - Let's talk about the circuit now.
Post by: LooseChange on September 01, 2011, 04:07:24 pm
Trace was broken between R12 and R8! Fixed.
Thanks for letting me talk through the problem here on the forum.

That circuit around pins 2 and 3... What's it all about?

Another wattage control to look at... It's an attenuator between the OT and the Speaker.
Title: Re: Vox AC4TV - on the bench - Fixed - Let's talk about the circuit now.
Post by: DummyLoad on September 01, 2011, 04:10:59 pm
C15 shorted?

--DL

EDIT: never mind... lol!
Title: Re: Vox AC4TV - on the bench - Fixed - Let's talk about the circuit now.
Post by: stingray_65 on September 01, 2011, 06:08:24 pm
Trace was broken between R12 and R8! Fixed.
Thanks for letting me talk through the problem here on the forum.

It sounded like a mechanical issue to me, something simple. I know your troubleshooting skills are way superior to mine, and I never meant to imply you don't know your basics.

I'm glad you found it! Broken traces are difficult to see and often will measure continuous until some heat or current flows though them.

Ray
Title: Re: Vox AC4TV - on the bench - Fixed - Let's talk about the circuit now.
Post by: LooseChange on September 02, 2011, 05:55:41 am
No problem.  I forget to do stuff all the time.

Not impressed with the amp. Not much bottom end and a bit thin. It does saturate pretty easily with the power switch set to 1/4 watt.
Title: Re: Vox AC4TV - on the bench - Fixed - Let's talk about the circuit now.
Post by: Geezer on September 02, 2011, 06:11:08 am

Another wattage control to look at... It's an attenuator between the OT and the Speaker.

At 1st glance, appears to be a type of phase cancellation (like a typical Matchless crossline MV) but on the opposite side of the OT.

I wonder what the 2x 10uf electolytics (series/opposing polarity) do? Maybe something to do with EQ'ing the output when the attenuator is in use?

I see the amp doesn't impress you, but how does the attenuator sound....IOW, does it seem to change the "tone" much when the power is lowered, or does it seem to retain the same crappy-ness, just at a lower volume?  :icon_biggrin:

G
Title: Re: Vox AC4TV - on the bench - Little help please
Post by: stratele52 on September 02, 2011, 07:21:41 am
I just read the answer of stingray , he is right .

LOL! :icon_biggrin: NEWBS! they crack me up :l2:

JK stratele JK

Ray

{edit-- quote-tag fixed --PRR}


Sorry Ray I don't understant your joke . I'm french speaking.... but it look funny . Can you write in other words  ?
Title: Re: Vox AC4TV - on the bench - Fixed - Let's talk about the circuit now.
Post by: Boots Deville on September 02, 2011, 07:29:44 am
Where that attenuator network is, is where you'd find a Zobel Network, which is not that uncommon in amps with EL84s. That's just a non-polarized cap and small value resistor in series between the OT secondaries, but I can't quite get my head around this circuit to determine if this is a variation of that or not.

What is the plate voltage on the EL84?  Wasn't there talk in these parts around Vox running relatively high numbers in their EL84 plates?  I wonder if it would sound better at a lower voltage.
Title: Re: Vox AC4TV - on the bench - Fixed - Let's talk about the circuit now.
Post by: OldHouseScott on September 02, 2011, 08:15:32 am
The attenuator is just a voltage divider feeding the speaker. The back-to-back caps provide a slight high-end lift to brighten the signal when attenuated.

The circuit around pins 2 and 3 is also a shelving circuit to cut some bass at that stage. I would expect this amp to have lots of mids and highs, and not much low end as you noted. The bypass cap on V1a is shaving lows as well.
Title: Re: Vox AC4TV - on the bench - Fixed - Let's talk about the circuit now.
Post by: LooseChange on September 02, 2011, 08:25:30 am
Plate voltage is 300v.
Title: Re: Vox AC4TV - on the bench - Fixed - Let's talk about the circuit now.
Post by: fretts on September 20, 2020, 02:17:38 pm
The attenuator is just a voltage divider feeding the speaker. The back-to-back caps provide a slight high-end lift to brighten the signal when attenuated.

The circuit around pins 2 and 3 is also a shelving circuit to cut some bass at that stage. I would expect this amp to have lots of mids and highs, and not much low end as you noted. The bypass cap on V1a is shaving lows as well.