Hoffman Amplifiers Tube Amplifier Forum

Amp Stuff => Tube Amp Building - Tweaks - Repairs => Topic started by: HotBluePlates on February 18, 2012, 08:48:12 pm

Title: Anyone routed heaters with plate/screen wiring?
Post by: HotBluePlates on February 18, 2012, 08:48:12 pm
I'm working up an amp layout, and wondered if anyone has noticed an issue with routing the heater wiring (say for output tubes) alongside plate/screen B+ wiring. The plan for neat wiring would be to bundle these together in the build I'm planning.

Thinking along theoretical lines, I can't see how 6vac would bother several hundred volts of d.c., but I always defer to practical experience.
Title: Re: Anyone routed heaters with plate/screen wiring?
Post by: sluckey on February 18, 2012, 09:34:13 pm
Sunn did it. I did several amps back in the '70s with B+ and heater wires laced together. Haven't done it lately, although I would if the layout called for it.

Here's my Sunn Sceptre...
Title: Re: Anyone routed heaters with plate/screen wiring?
Post by: Willabe on February 18, 2012, 10:25:23 pm
Isn't the possible noise from the AC heaters caused by the current and not the voltage?


                      Brad     :dontknow:
Title: Re: Anyone routed heaters with plate/screen wiring?
Post by: sluckey on February 18, 2012, 10:32:44 pm
Yes. The stronger the current thru a wire, the stronger the electro magnetic field surrounding that wire and the greater the chance of that magnetic field inducing an unwanted voltage into adjacent wires. So keep heater wires away from sensitive signal carrying wires. But B+ wires are at signal ground potential if the filter caps are doing their job.
Title: Re: Anyone routed heaters with plate/screen wiring?
Post by: Willabe on February 18, 2012, 10:41:54 pm
But B+ wires are at signal ground potential if the filter caps are doing their job.

Meaning, if the filter caps are not doing their job this is where ESR is increased and now the B+ is lifted above ground potenial?


             Thanks,   Brad       :think1:
Title: Re: Anyone routed heaters with plate/screen wiring?
Post by: jjasilli on February 18, 2012, 11:13:49 pm
My Stromberg Carlson PA amps have all their internal wiring bundled together per original design -- B+, heater, speaker -- and passing right by the trannies.  There's no noise.
Title: Re: Anyone routed heaters with plate/screen wiring?
Post by: Willabe on February 18, 2012, 11:28:56 pm
Quote from: sluckey link=topic=13255.msg 123811#msg 123811 date=1329625964
So keep heater wires away from sensitive signal carrying wires.

Normally grid wires?

 
               Thanks,     Brad   
Title: Re: Anyone routed heaters with plate/screen wiring?
Post by: stratele52 on February 19, 2012, 04:53:06 am
Keep heater wires far from grid wire and other wire.

When I build amp I follow how Fender Blackface amp are build , that's the best way IMO
Title: Re: Anyone routed heaters with plate/screen wiring?
Post by: kagliostro on February 19, 2012, 07:45:22 am
May be is due to my scarce experience, but I'll hesitate to route B+ and Heater wiring together

if I must have B+ wires and Heater wires near each other, may be I'll use a (grounded) small iron pipe (or copper pipe, iron however is better) and put the heater wires across it

otherwise I'll use a piece of RG58 shielded cable for B+, connecting the shield at one extremity to ground

but this sure will due to my insecurity and may result in an excess of precaution

---

may be that also B+ signal carry High Frequency noise that can be transmitted to the preamp tubes via the Heater wiring, so a large poly capacitor across the heater supply can help avoid this

with respect

Kagliostro
Title: Re: Anyone routed heaters with plate/screen wiring?
Post by: stratele52 on February 19, 2012, 08:20:56 am

otherwise I'll use a piece of RG58 shielded cable for B+, connecting the shield at one extremity to ground

 Kagliostro


Be carefull RG cable are not for high voltage use .
Title: Re: Anyone routed heaters with plate/screen wiring?
Post by: kagliostro on February 19, 2012, 08:32:30 am
RG58 = 15Kv DC

http://datasheet.octopart.com/RG58BU-100M-Pro-datasheet-564768.pdf (http://datasheet.octopart.com/RG58BU-100M-Pro-datasheet-564768.pdf)

Kagliostro
Title: Re: Anyone routed heaters with plate/screen wiring?
Post by: stratele52 on February 19, 2012, 08:55:50 am
I'm very surprise , thank's I learn something
Title: Re: Anyone routed heaters with plate/screen wiring?
Post by: triode on February 19, 2012, 01:39:31 pm
I'm very surprise , thank's I learn something

Always check the manufacturer spec sheet... Belden claims 300V on the RG58 I use.
But it does claim 1500V on the microwave cable, which is different.

http://www.belden.com/resourcecenter/tools/cablefinder/upload/06-3_15.pdf (http://www.belden.com/resourcecenter/tools/cablefinder/upload/06-3_15.pdf)

Title: Re: Anyone routed heaters with plate/screen wiring?
Post by: HotBluePlates on February 19, 2012, 03:50:08 pm
Thanks for the responses. I think I have less hesitation routing the heaters with the B+ wiring now.

As for filter cap ESR, my particular build will be using Solen filter caps, so I have little worry about that issue.

Just in case anyone might get the wrong idea, I'm using Solens because I already have some on hand, and can spec the chassis to be any size I want; I have nothing against using e'lytic caps (I originally planned on using some can caps for this build, then changed my mind to use the Solens). Either way, I mainly use these caps simply because they'll likely never need replacing.