Hoffman Amplifiers Tube Amplifier Forum

Other Stuff => Guitars => Topic started by: supro66 on May 20, 2012, 11:39:00 pm

Title: Refinish old guitar
Post by: supro66 on May 20, 2012, 11:39:00 pm
I am going to refinish this guitar

How do I protect the white binding around the body when I stain

I know I can tap it

any other way to skin this cat

(http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk243/supro66/GUITARS%20MUSIC/DSC02260.jpg)

(http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk243/supro66/GUITARS%20MUSIC/DSC02261.jpg)
Title: Re: Refinish old guitar
Post by: tubenit on May 21, 2012, 07:01:35 am
Are you using water soluble analine dye ............OR stain?

I personally would use an artist brush up close without tape if it's dye.

You can use an exacto knife or industrial razor blade to lightly scrape the binding off if needed.

With respect, Tubenit
Title: Re: Refinish old guitar
Post by: supro66 on May 21, 2012, 08:20:05 am
I was thinking water base stain

Should I use a Lacquer or polyurethane clear coat?

I was wondering how the guitar makers do it at the factory
put the binding on last

How about this
http://www.stewmac.com/shopby/product/1730 (http://www.stewmac.com/shopby/product/1730)
Title: Re: Refinish old guitar
Post by: HotBluePlates on May 21, 2012, 09:22:25 am
You can try taping.

The Gibson method is not to protect. They paint/stain first, the take a razor blade and lightly scrape the binding to remove any paint/stain.
Title: Re: Refinish old guitar
Post by: G._Hoffman on May 21, 2012, 11:47:04 pm
I usually tape off the binding, but you almost always still have to do some scraping.  But the only time to use dyes is if you are doing sunbursts or working with really fancy maple.  For that guitar, you really don't need to go to the trouble.  Spray your sealer, then spray any color over that in a lacquer coat.  It could be either transparent, or opaque.  A nice opaque black would be nice on that, although most of those old Harmony's some type of a blonde finish.  You could do a sunburst, but with the rather plain wood, I'd probably do that with tinted lacquer and spray it on too.  All Gibson's these days (with maybe a few exceptions in the Custom Shop) are sprayed these days.  They haven't regularly hand rubbed any color since the 1930's or so. 

The best thing you can do if you are going to be finishing a guitar is buy a copy of Dan Erlewine's book (http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Books,_plans/Building_and_repair:_Finishing/Guitar_Finishing_Step-By-Step.html).  I've been finishing guitars for 25 years, and was trained by an expert (my dad), but I still learned something from it.  Can't say better for a book than that. 

One thing to be aware of on the binding - if you look at the binding on pretty much all post-1960 Gibson guitars, they have a very noticeable ledge at the edge of the binding.  Its mostly caused by the colored lacquer building up right next to the tape, and then Gibson not bothering to level it properly.  The lacquer scraped off the binding is also a contributing factor.  I hate that part of Gibson's finishes.  Its a hack job, and if you are paying what Gibson charges for a guitar, you shouldn't be getting a hack job!  You need to carefully level the build up at the edge.  It's a major pain, because it is VERY easy to overdo it and sand through the color.  Don't try to do it all at once - make it a bit better with each set of clear coats.  You also need to build up a bit more clear on the binding, while you are spraying it.


Gabriel
Title: Re: Refinish old guitar
Post by: supro66 on May 22, 2012, 07:58:52 am
The guitar is a Kay like this one

http://compare.ebay.com/like/130679175887?var=lv&var=sbar (http://compare.ebay.com/like/130679175887?var=lv&var=sbar)

I don't think that model

My brother gave it to me when I was 14 I am 64 now and dumber than  a bag of rocks
I knew it all than and did a custom paint job
Black and red

I do have this book

http://www.amazon.com/Guitar-Finishing-Step---Step-Erlewine/dp/0977651908/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1337691296&sr=1-1 (http://www.amazon.com/Guitar-Finishing-Step---Step-Erlewine/dp/0977651908/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1337691296&sr=1-1)
Title: Re: Refinish old guitar
Post by: Willabe on May 22, 2012, 10:13:27 am
Looks like the same book.      :icon_biggrin:
Title: Re: Refinish old guitar
Post by: Fresh_Start on May 22, 2012, 12:02:19 pm
http://reranch.com/reranch/index.php (http://reranch.com/reranch/index.php)

A great resource for finishing guitars.

Cheers,
Chip
Title: Re: Refinish old guitar
Post by: G._Hoffman on May 22, 2012, 02:53:22 pm
http://reranch.com/reranch/index.php (http://reranch.com/reranch/index.php)

A great resource for finishing guitars.

Cheers,
Chip


I don't recommend using nitro unless you have a proper spray booth.  You can blow yourself up, quite literally.  Much better to use a water-based finish.  Both LMI and Stew Mac sell good finishes which are much safer to use, and give very fine results.


Gabriel
Title: Re: Refinish old guitar
Post by: supro66 on May 22, 2012, 05:31:09 pm
I was going to throw it away

I took a look at it and it is solid wood

no plywood

Nice archtop

I put new strings on it and it sounded good and easy to play

I missed placed the electronics years ago
also my mind :dontknow:

I guess I can replace them

I got the pick gaurd
Title: Re: Refinish old guitar
Post by: P Batty on May 27, 2012, 05:52:24 pm
Those old Kays with the spruce top have a great, mellow tone. I have one from 1953 (not electric) that had been messed up pretty bad. I stripped and sanded it .  I used spray lacquer (from a can) and it turned out great BUT the lacquer takes a long, long time to dry. 

http://flippistarchives.blogspot.com/2008/07/wood-and-steel.html (http://flippistarchives.blogspot.com/2008/07/wood-and-steel.html)

Title: Re: Refinish old guitar
Post by: supro66 on May 27, 2012, 06:15:21 pm
Those old Kays with the spruce top have a great, mellow tone. I have one from 1953 (not electric) that had been messed up pretty bad. I stripped and sanded it .  I used spray lacquer (from a can) and it turned out great BUT the lacquer takes a long, long time to dry. 

http://flippistarchives.blogspot.com/2008/07/wood-and-steel.html (http://flippistarchives.blogspot.com/2008/07/wood-and-steel.html)



What bridge do you recommend wood or bone?
Title: Re: Refinish old guitar
Post by: P Batty on May 27, 2012, 08:25:50 pm
The picture  of the Kay was when it had a wood bridge, but I have been using a tune-o-matic (no posts or base) because the neck angle is low and I don't want to have the neck reset  and the intonation can be set better. It is still pretty mellow- really nice balanced  low midrange.
Title: Re: Refinish old guitar
Post by: fdesalvo on June 22, 2012, 10:40:42 am
+1 on tape and scrape.


Tru-Oil would look phenominal in this application and you can go for glossy or matte.  Here's a neck I recently finished with about 8 coats of it.

(http://img34.imageshack.us/img34/6994/24041410150184827373772.jpg)
By fdesalvo (http://profile.imageshack.us/user/fdesalvo) at 2011-05-23
Title: Re: Refinish old guitar
Post by: supro66 on March 10, 2015, 09:54:57 am
I started this thread
did not get around to it yet
maybe this year
Title: Re: Refinish old guitar
Post by: jjasilli on March 10, 2015, 04:24:12 pm
Probably harder than it looks:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TNbsZsSabPs (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TNbsZsSabPs)


Or google":  "how to finish guitar with binding"
Title: Re: Refinish old guitar
Post by: supro66 on March 12, 2015, 09:28:25 am
Thank you guys now that I am retired I will work on it this year
Title: Re: Refinish old guitar
Post by: G._Hoffman on March 27, 2015, 03:18:50 am
Probably harder than it looks:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TNbsZsSabPs (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TNbsZsSabPs)


Or google":  "how to finish guitar with binding"


Way, WAY harder than he makes it look.  My guess is he did that in a factory setting at some point, as I've never seen anyone else who was that good at it.

As for the internet for finishing advice, no.  I've never seen a website yet which was written by someone who had a clue what they are doing.  Shockingly bad advice.  Dan's book is the best resource you'll find, hands down.


Gabriel