Hoffman Amplifiers Tube Amplifier Forum
Other Stuff => Other Topics => Topic started by: EL34 on June 09, 2012, 12:50:19 pm
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01/22/2013
A few new additions to my aresenal
Glock 26 (taking the concealed carry course and carrying this one)
Glock 17 with laser
AR15 (more accesories on the way for this one)
Mossberg 12 gauge shotgun with tactical LED flashlight
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I like the Glock alot. Cool. Never been a big fan of Ruger, so I think you did good on this one.
Since I used to hunt quail, ducks, dove, etc....... I guess I am still partial to a more normal shotgun since it's what I'm used to.
With respect, Tubenit
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The Mossberg is a Zombie Killer/riot gun, not a hunting gun
This may be more to your liking
I have a 20 gauge bird shotgun from 1944
My dad bought it at a hardware store when he was a kid
It is a Harrinton & Richardson USA made 20 gauge, single shot shotgun
I hunted Pheasant with this when I was a kid
It is super light weight, with a 30 inch long barrel
I have not shot it in many years
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I know a little about guns :l2: , first off if you rack that shotgun and the zombie doesn't run away,then he definately needs shooting. Second if you shoot someone with too low a caliber and they notice it,they are going to be angry.And most people that carry a .45 do so because they don't make a .46.Oh that single shot 20 should always be carried empty unless you are hunting (to and from empty). I may be wrong but no safety? I had a Single 20 when I was young and loved it but it was an accident waiting to happen if not respected (more so than most.)
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if you shoot someone with too low a caliber and they notice it,they are going to be angry
The difference between what a solid point and hollow point does is massive
Hollow point bullets in a 9mm get the job done nicely.
I have mostly solid point target ammo for the Glock, but I keep one clip loaded with 17 x hollow point 9mm rounds. Hollow point ammo is very expensive compared to target ammo.
Homeland security purchased over 450 million hollow point bullets a few months ago.
Hmm, I wonder what those are for?
That 20 gauge has not been shot for probably 30 years?
You have to pull the hammer back before it could be fired, but you could carry it just like a trap gun, with it broke open, if you were nervous about it going off
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A little off topic but trying to tie some amps in to this thread. :-)
There is a very large shop north of here, near the Canadian border, in NY State called Dick's Guns, Groceries Gas and Guitars. Seriously, they have an incredible collection of Guns and Guitars to go along with your gas and groceries.
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That's quite a combo of items all under one roof
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The difference between what a solid point and hollow point does is massive
Hollow point bullets in a 9mm get the job done nicely.
I have mostly solid point target ammo for the Glock, but I keep one clip loaded with 17 x hollow point 9mm rounds. Hollow point ammo is very expensive compared to target ammo.
Homeland security purchased over 450 million hollow point bullets a few months ago.
Hmm, I wonder what those are for?
That 20 gauge has not been shot for probably 30 years?
You have to pull the hammer back before it could be fired, but you could carry it just like a trap gun, with it broke open, if you were nervous about it going off
Been away too long. Another Spring outage season has run its course at the plant. Hopefully, the Summer will be a quiet one of generating.
I use Rainier plated bullets for my practice loads. When I was in the Army, I was allowed to qualify with a .45 sidearm, as I carried one to 'motor' the the guards to their post when I had guard duty. I got into a discussion about ball ammo versus hollow point ammo, with the Armorer one night. He swore by ball ammo in the .45 ACP, saying the slow velocity and large slug made for a sledge hammer that would stop your heart, even if it didn't penetrate. That stuck with me. Many years later, a friend and I made the comparison with hollow points. The end result was just about the same, except the .45 ball made a bigger mushroom.
Jack
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I love my Glock (among other things)
A couple 9mm on target are far more deadly than a half dozen .45's that missed. And too many of the guys I know personally that insist on shooting a .45, can't shoot.
Caliber matters, placement matters more. Been a lot of deer taken in the moonlight with a .22 in the brain.
But these days, I'm way more into building amps and making music than I am shooting. I blame you lot for that!
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My Glock 17 shoots very smooth
No huge kick to the wrist
And 17 shots in a clip is nice
Therer are 30 shot clips available also
I have only ran a couple clips through it, just got it last month
I need to take it out with the new laser and see how cool that is.
I have not shot the Mossberg shotgun yet, just got it.
Looks like it could be a handfull when shot from the hip with the pistol grip
The pistol grip comes off real easy and there are other stocks you can add
Like a tactical folding or collapsable, etc
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in utopia texas there is (or at least used to be) a store on the edge of town with sign that has two words in rather large print.
LIQUOR
GUNS
and in smaller font...
Drive-Thru Service
ya, mabel, giime a six_o_lone_star, a bottle o beam, anna box 30-06...
whatta buncha' hicks! god bless texas! :icon_biggrin:
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when it comes to zombies a sidearm is just that....a 12 gauge with a lot of shells (OO) is the prefered weapon unless you happen to have a water cooled machine gun handy......And hey you don't have to defend your weapon of choice but it MUST count when it defends you :think1:
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I'd like to have a rifle also. How about an AR15?
It's a good gun.
Yeah, I like your shotgun. That would work.
With respect, Tubenit
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I had a lot of guns in the 50s, mostly hand guns. My favorite back then was a single action Colt 45 "peacemaker" I also had a Mannlicher Schoener 270 rifle that I bought in Austria. Only gun here now is an old single 20 gauge, which hasn't fired in many years. Been thinking about a short barreled 12 gauge pump, for around the house....
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... And most people that carry a .45 do so because they don't make a .46.Oh ...
:l2:
Yes! I miss my .45 Kimber. I heard some story about Kimber making a .46 soon?? :icon_biggrin:
Homeland security purchased over 450 million hollow point bullets a few months ago.
Hmm, I wonder what those are for?
The military can't use hollow points because of the Law of Armed Conflict. Seems when you're trying to kill your enemy, you don't want to cause undue suffering. Of course, you can keep lobbing grenades at him...
Perhaps Homeland Security figures potential terrorists deserve all the undue suffering they have coming. :l2:
Of course, there may be an advantage to picking off zombies BEFORE they get into range of a shotgun:
(http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd298/Chipster457/Scout%20etcetera/Scoutfullright.jpg?t=1333078123)
Now the M1A/M14 IS surely a fine weapon. If I only had the spare cash, and a place to actually shoot up cinderblocks, I'd get one in a heartbeat.
I almost had a chance to score a full-auto M14 for $400 once. In hindsight, it is probably good the deal didn't work out. Regardless, .30 full auto without the weight of typical machine guns doesn't seem like a good way to stay on target. But it sure would be fun!
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The military can't use hollow points because of the Law of Armed Conflict. Seems when you're trying to kill your enemy, you don't want to cause undue suffering. Of course, you can keep lobbing grenades at him.
Perhaps Homeland Security figures potential terrorists deserve all the undue suffering they have coming
How about US citizens???
And you may think that is impossible
http://articles.businessinsider.com/2012-03-28/news/31247765_1_atk-rounds-bullet (http://articles.businessinsider.com/2012-03-28/news/31247765_1_atk-rounds-bullet)
Just look at what is happening in Greece, Spain, Italy, Ireland.
The whole world is tied together financially and the US dollar is the backing currency
The weakest links are going first and that's what happening in Europe right now
The current world FIAT currency system is expected to collapse and it's already under way.
The current world financial system controlled by banks is completely unsustainable and headed into a downward spiral.
90% of america has no idea what is going on right now.
They watch the prepared for the masses nightly news that soothes all their worries by telling them what they want to hear.
10% are aware and maybe 1% are actually preparing themsleves financially for what is coming.
The real estate bubble and banking crysis of 2008 was just a mild warm up compared to what's coming down the road
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The future is kind of scary when we dig into it...
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"The Population Bubble"
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If you would like to understand what the crux of the financial collapse is, watch this video
It explains how the currency system works and how we are being screwed by the FED
The Fed is not a government agency, it is a private institution that was created in 1913
It's a bit long, but it will open your eyes
Silver & Gold - Debt Collapse - $20,000 Gold - Mike Maloney on Economic Crisis (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tj2s6vzErqY#ws)
This one is a wake up call for hyperinflation
Preparing Americans for Hyperinflation (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xbUIlH0stSc#)
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The real estate bubble and banking crisis of 2008 was just a mild warm up compared to what's coming down the road
Absolutely agree with you.
With respect, Tubenit
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"The Population Bubble"
And that might the the deepest root of our problems, really. There's just too damned many of us.
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There's too many people on the planet for sure but the issue here is that the world's financial system is headed for a crash that makes 2008 look like child play
So then there will be too many people with no money, no jobs, no food
The FED will print lots more money which will inflate the currency and prices even more.
At some point, you may be able to wallpaper your bedroom walls with dollar bills cheaper than you can paint it.
If you would like to see what hyperinflastion looks like, look at what happened to Zimbabwe
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperinflation_in_Zimbabwe (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperinflation_in_Zimbabwe)
100 billion dollar notes anyone
You could get 3 eggs for 100 billion dollars
(http://gulfofmexicooilspillblog.files.wordpress.com/2011/01/zimbabwe-100-billion.jpg)
(http://moneytipcentral.com/wp-content/uploads/Pile-of-dollars.jpg)
hey honey, I am going shopping
(http://moneytipcentral.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/zimbabwe-inflation.jpg)
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Dog Gone you Madison! :cussing:
You just wrecked a perfectly fine childhood memory.
Brad :l2:
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Their already printing too much money, what do you think "quantitative easing" is by the Fed?
They also have changed the way they measure/count inflation from what they used too. They've been saying for what 3, 4 years now that we have had 0 inflation?
Everybody's cooking the books so the #'ers add up, when they really don't, wont, can't.
Brad :help:
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Yes, it's called Quantitative Easing and other fancy names like Operation Twist (You have to make it sound cute and wonderful when you are inflating the money supply)
There has been QE1 and QE2, operation twist and QE3 is expected before the election because Obama needs to make everything look wonderful to get re-elected
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantitative_easing (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantitative_easing)
The stock market should rally when QE3 is anounced, and that is what Obama wants to happen
If it does not, then that is a very bearish signal
Gold and Silver will go way up when QE3 is anounced
They can't do it too soon though because QE is just like a drug
It makes you feel good for a while and then the effects wear off and you are in worse condition than you were before
The huge amount of debt that the last two presidents Bush and Obama have piled on cannot be paid
We now owe 16 trillion dollars
Yet these idiots borrow more each year than they take in with taxes
The whole thing is out of everyones control now and it is set to get really ugly
How quickly the 2008 crisis happend and how quickly things went to hell in a panic shows how just how serious things can get in a very short time
Watch this video, it will give you a glimpse of what can happen and what we may be facing down the road
The First 12 Hours of a US Dollar Collapse (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N3q5NyxI8nk#ws)
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I watched 3 of your video posts now and a very large amount of what's in them is what Fox news and Glen Beck have been saying since this stuff started with the 1'st crash.
When Beck was at Fox I must have watched 95% of his shows. Before he was at Fox and had a radio show 1 day he told his listeners he was going to sell all his stocks and buy gold because he felt the stock markets were going to crash and for them to do the same. Well he did and not only did he triple his $$, but he also didn't loose any $$ in the stock markets.
I think your right about the big 0 (read big zero) and QE3, I wouldn't doubt it at all.
I never thought I'd live to see this, I thought it was/would happen some day, buy I thought it happen after I was gone from this world. I really thought it would be my wife's kids when they were old or her grand kids. :w2:
We have 60 acres on Norfork lake in Ark. that's on the water with a beautiful view and we haven't been able to sell any of it in the last 3 years. :BangHead:
If/when we do we'll buy gold and silver.
But there still could be a problem with that, you never know what these goof balls are going to try and do. What kind of laws or even shutting down the nation with martial law. Maybe no internet, no power grid, who knows, burn the constitution?
And isn't there a clause in the constitution that says the government can take any/all gold from citizens if at war?
Brad :w2:
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Sig 1911 in .45 and loooking for a nice Springfield Armory M14.
If you dig Glocks, check out Glockmeister.com. The next gun I get will be a glock in .45 or 10mm and will absolutely customize it with parts from his site.
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And isn't there a clause in the constitution that says the government can take any/all gold from citizens if at war
No, but the constitution says that gold and silver are real money and that we have the right to bare arms.
Gold and silver have already been taken away and Nixon screwed us good and proper one more time by taking the US dollar off the gold standard.
But, There are several states that are looking going back to real money like silver...yeah!!!
Recently Utah passed a law that you are allowed to pay for goods with silver if the merchant will take the silver. This is a huge step in the right direction of going back to real money and something that the powers to be do not want you to do. The current FIAT currency game does not allow real money.
Now with all the made up terrorist on home soil threats, they are removing many more of our rights.
(and don't forget that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction that were never found)
The general public are very naive, if homeland security says,
"We need to search all your homes, computer files personal documents, etc to make sure you are safe from terrorist"
Guess what the sheeple say
"Oh yes, we want to make sure we are safe from terrorist, go right ahread"
Meanwhile, they have just surrendered a huge chunk of their civil liberties
I am not one of those underground bunker dudes you see on TV
I am only observing the huge changes that are taking places with our civil liberties and am extremely concerned!
Again, tell me why Homeland security ordered 450 million hollow point bullets?
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Sig 1911 in .45 and loooking for a nice Springfield Armory M14.
If you dig Glocks, check out Glockmeister.com. The next gun I get will be a glock in .45 or 10mm and will absolutely customize it with parts from his site.
A buddy of mine owns m14-parts.com
http://www.m-14parts.com/ (http://www.m-14parts.com/)
Jon is a good guy, maybe he can help
I have known Jon for over 10 years
He got all my guns for me
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You ain't going Rambo on us are you?
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No Rambo here
I am just observing the current state of affairs and it is getting really serious
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The general public are very naive, if homeland security says,
"We need to search all your homes, computer files personal documents, etc to make sure you are safe from terrorist"
Guess what the sheeple say
"Oh yes, we want to make sure we are safe from terrorist, go right ahead"
Beck was talking about some fancy new type of spy van/truck that the military developed that can see into your house, some kind of x-ray/infrared deal, he showed a number of the photos it produces and it was pretty amazing how clear they were. They were using it over seas but then the US government ordered a bunch of them for use here. I forget the # he quoted but it was extreme. :w2:
Again, tell me why Homeland security ordered 450 million hollow point bullets?
That's an awful lot of high power ammo for home land use, no doubt.
Brad :w2:
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Dog Gone you Madison! :cussing:
You just wrecked a perfectly fine childhood memory.
Brad :l2:
HTH :grin:
Hope you learned something new from that video.
It is worth watching.
I am not a gold bug nor a fiat money guy.
They are both valued only by one's faith in it.
As it stands, both can be and certainly are manipulated.
Backing the fiat with gold again is a good step to only 40 years ago.
The better way is to take the creation of DEBT FREE money back to the people and out of private banks hands.
I'd also like to see completing currencies, which would include gold, silver, State issued,bartering, etc.
Basically, the way is was over 100 years ago.
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Thanks for the link. My dad was a cop when I was growing up and he would always bring home lots of fun hardware haha.
Sig 1911 in .45 and loooking for a nice Springfield Armory M14.
If you dig Glocks, check out Glockmeister.com. The next gun I get will be a glock in .45 or 10mm and will absolutely customize it with parts from his site.
A buddy of mine owns m14-parts.com
http://www.m-14parts.com/ (http://www.m-14parts.com/)
Jon is a good guy, maybe he can help
I have known Jon for over 10 years
He got all my guns for me
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Glocks scare the hell out of me.
5 or 6 years back I was officiating an IPSC match during the course of which 2 Glocks blew up. One was a 40 cal, the other a 45. The 40 was so bad it needed a new slide and barrel plus sundry other parts, the 45 just needed parts which a local dealer had in stock.
Both guns were spewing parts all over me as the Range Officer is supposed to position himself slightly behind and beside the shooter in case he has to intervene in a safety issue.
I now stand behind people with Glocks; I have enough scars.
9/45 issue
The first Force to covert to 9mm (giving up their 357 mag revolvers) was the California Highway Patrol. Shortly after the change a Highway Patrolman riding his bike on an off ramp spotted a holdup in progress in a liquor store. He radioed for backup but because he judged the clerk was in imminent danger, he crept in behind the perp and identified himself and ordered that the gun be dropped.
The perp ignored the commands and started turning towards the officer who opened fire emptying the S&W 9mm into the perp who continued turning until he had his 44mag trained on the officer who was shot and killed.
As he was dying I speculate the Officer likely wished he had had his old 357 mag.
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You did not say which model blew up
Were these Gen 4 Glock 17's that blew up?
Competiton Glocks are highly modified with all kinds of trick parts, they are not stock Glocks
It's amazing then that the world's #1 gun for law enforcemant by far is the Glock 17 and #1 for reliability
You would think that law enforcement officers would not want to use something that blows up.
Or maybe the officers all in love with guns that blow up?
Just asking logical questions
I just ordered a 3.5 pound trigger for mine plus a stainless steel guide rod and a extended slide lock
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A glock is the only pistol I've ever had jam on me.Could just be coincidence
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That's funny
No matter what subject you have opposite parties
I hate Fenders, oh yeah well I hate Gibsons
I hate Coke, oh yeah, I hate Pepsi
Silly stuff
:l2:
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My fav vids on youtube are made by "Hickock45". He's a huge glock/1911 fan and has a really amazing backyard range.
Glock 21 Gen 4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PYAnhDE46BE#ws)
Just watch them all.
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yeah, I have watched several of his videos
I like him
I watched his stance videos a while back
he's quite a good shot
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He's such an amazing shot.
This girl I was dating was being trained by one of the Top Shot contetants from last season and she really picked it up fast. She's not competing in IPSA events haha. She's a great shot and totally put me to shame at the range a few months back (it was the first time I shot in 5 years, but no excuse - even at my best, she'd have handed me my own a$$). It was her turn to shoot and I was standing behind her observing. A crowd had formed lol - people literally stopped shooting because she was putting hole on top of hole at about 20 yards with a beat old 92F. This guy came up to me and said, "You are doing great with her. Maybe you can show me a few tips." I smiled, but that faded quickly as I realized I was next up to shoot. Everyone assumed I was training her and now they were waiting to see what kind of groups I would post! After my peperoni sized group, they quickly learned I was the one taking notes!
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This is a pretty accurate pistol & fun to fire. 38 shell jacketed to a 22. Very flat trajectory.
It also has alloy sleeves inserts that allow regular 22 bullets to be fired. The hammer has quick adjust from rimfire to centerfire.
Smith & Wesson 22 Jet
With respect, Tubenit
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Almost looks like the .17 HMR :)
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I've posted these elsewhere, and if I have done so here, I apologize for the redundancy:
.308 F-Class for large/long distance varmints
(http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q32/Jack_Hester/Shooting/Double%20H%20Gunsmithing/308001.jpg)
.22-250 Ackley for not-so-large/still long distance varmints
(http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q32/Jack_Hester/Shooting/Double%20H%20Gunsmithing/Home22-250AI001.jpg)
and the good people at H&H Gunsmithing that built them both for me
(http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q32/Jack_Hester/Shooting/Double%20H%20Gunsmithing/Finished22-250AI.jpg)
I don't have more pictures of the .308, though it has be long finished and basically the same setup as the Ackley. The .308 stock was modeled after the Ackley, once I had it adjusted for my shooting. No adjustments on this one. Neither are carry rifles, as they are too heavy.
The funny thing is that where I live, my .22 Hornet is my most used rifle. Too many people around me with children, to even think about using the others. And, I live on a farm.
Jack
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You did not say which model blew up
Were these Gen 4 Glock 17's that blew up?
Competiton Glocks are highly modified with all kinds of trick parts, they are not stock Glocks
It's amazing then that the world's #1 gun for law enforcemant by far is the Glock 17 and #1 for reliability
You would think that law enforcement officers would not want to use something that blows up.
Or maybe the officers all in love with guns that blow up?
Just asking logical questions
I just ordered a 3.5 pound trigger for mine plus a stainless steel guide rod and a extended slide lock
I don't recall the models but I remember one guy was shooting production class and the other standard class so I'm assuming they were both out of the box. I can't check it out as coincidentally, both have since died, maybe the Glocks are just bad luck.
The only Glock I shot (it was on a dare from the local SWAT team leader) was a 9mm model 17 which I didn't care for although I had no trouble with targets after getting over the strange feel.
My guns are all based on the 1911 frame (Springfields, Colt and Para-ordinance) and my homemade 9mm comp gun based on a Norinco frame. These guns are easily set up with a safe 1.5 pound trigger, usually without fancy parts.
Cops don't get to choose what they carry, the force picks out the issue firearm.
Coincidentally the local police and the Minnesota Highway patrol switched to Glock 9's from Beretta 40's at about the same time. The local police (mostly SWAT) had a lot of split barrels with the Berettas and that was the reason why the force went to a different firearm (according to the Chief they went with the Glock because it seemed to be a trend with Police Forces).
In salvaging discarded brass after police shooting, I determined that they had been cleaning their guns after shooting and had been leaving the barrels wet so that their first shot had extreme pressure as indicted by the brass I found.
It is obvious that the City Force Berettas were effectively sabotaged by leaving the barrels wet, could be the case with Minnesota but I saw no evidence of that on a range they had been using.
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That's a cool looking rig Chip
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when it comes to zombies a sidearm is just that....a 12 gauge with a lot of shells
8 in the gun and 25 on the belt
Pictures of the shell belt here
http://www.el34world.com/Forum/index.php?topic=13934.msg130715#msg130715 (http://www.el34world.com/Forum/index.php?topic=13934.msg130715#msg130715)
I'd like to have a rifle also
How about an AR15?
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/28/Stag2wi_.jpg)
ooooh.... Someone had to break out a "scary" gun... quick dive for cover!!! The Brady bunch will be knocking and skipping any kind of logic to convince us how evil a black gun is.
All I got to say is a lot FAT good the bans do in Chicago, NYC, and DC.... despite the bans and making it hard for those who can carry legally, the gang bangers are still having a hey-day plugging people. (mostly other gang bangers, but they don't care about collateral damage... and apparently neither does Bloomberg and the NYPD.)
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I love my Glock (among other things)
A couple 9mm on target are far more deadly than a half dozen .45's that missed. And too many of the guys I know personally that insist on shooting a .45, can't shoot.
Caliber matters, placement matters more. Been a lot of deer taken in the moonlight with a .22 in the brain.
But these days, I'm way more into building amps and making music than I am shooting. I blame you lot for that!
I agree whole-heartedly.... placement matters. (most of the caliber wars is just a testosterone contest as there have been many that have been killed with the lowly .22LR.) Shoot the largest you're comfortable with and won't hurt you... even if it is just a .22LR. There's a few good ones out there now that aren't wheel-guns.... Ruger SR22 and S&W M&P 22 come to mind eating almost anything .22LR you feed it. Then there are the really fussy ones like the SIG Sauer Mosquito. Also good for just plinking and as a trainer: the M&P 22(, SR22, & Walther P22.)
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I know a little about guns :l2: , first off if you rack that shotgun and the zombie doesn't run away,then he definately needs shooting. Second if you shoot someone with too low a caliber and they notice it,they are going to be angry.And most people that carry a .45 do so because they don't make a .46.Oh that single shot 20 should always be carried empty unless you are hunting (to and from empty). I may be wrong but no safety? I had a Single 20 when I was young and loved it but it was an accident waiting to happen if not respected (more so than most.)
Nah... a REAL (Testosterone) man, will find a DE in .50 AE instead of a .45.
ANY gun can be an accident waiting to happen IF not used or treated right.
http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2012/08/david-liberman/irresponsible-gun-owner-of-the-day-judge-vincent-sgueglia/ (http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2012/08/david-liberman/irresponsible-gun-owner-of-the-day-judge-vincent-sgueglia/)
http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2012/07/daniel-zimmerman/irresponsible-gun-owner-day-unnamed-detroit-cop/ (http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2012/07/daniel-zimmerman/irresponsible-gun-owner-day-unnamed-detroit-cop/)
Also when used properly, they CAN have a good defensive result:
http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2012/08/david-liberman/dgu-of-the-day-lioness-with-a-shotgun/ (http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2012/08/david-liberman/dgu-of-the-day-lioness-with-a-shotgun/)
http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2012/08/daniel-zimmerman/dgu-of-the-day-shoot-me-once-shame-on-you-edition/ (http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2012/08/daniel-zimmerman/dgu-of-the-day-shoot-me-once-shame-on-you-edition/)
http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2012/08/sanchanim/defensive-gun-use-of-the-day-armed-granny-edition/ (http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2012/08/sanchanim/defensive-gun-use-of-the-day-armed-granny-edition/)
http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2012/07/daniel-zimmerman/defensive-gun-use-of-the-day-cyberspace-edition/ (http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2012/07/daniel-zimmerman/defensive-gun-use-of-the-day-cyberspace-edition/)
That last one was using a .380... a round some consider inadequate for defensive use... but it sure did the trick.
Just Remember the 4 rules of gun safety and all is pretty much well.
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when it comes to zombies a sidearm is just that....a 12 gauge with a lot of shells (OO) is the prefered weapon unless you happen to have a water cooled machine gun handy......And hey you don't have to defend your weapon of choice but it MUST count when it defends you :think1:
Better have a NFA tax stamp for that full-auto and hope your State and County don't outright ban you from having it. (if you're in the UK... Sorry, best you might be able to get will be limited for hunting purposes only. i.e a permit for a Simple shotgun or rifle... in the land of Oz... well good luck getting a permit for an air-soft gun let alone a shotgun.)
Best Zombie killers will be light and use common ammo.
Just don't be like this guy...
BACK UP (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uKP30gTS3yQ#ws)
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My fav vids on youtube are made by "Hickock45". He's a huge glock/1911 fan and has a really amazing backyard range.
Just watch them all.
Another good reviewer is NutnFancy on YouTube as well.
Glock 17: "Reference Standard," Pt 1 by Nutnfancy (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=866LWMsvUsc#)
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I found this, didn't remember which thread it was in? Don't know what to think about it at this point.
Brad :dontknow:
WASHINGTON (AP) — It didn't take long for the Internet to start buzzing with conspiracy theories after the Social Security Administration posted a notice that it was purchasing 174,000 hollow-point bullets.
Why is the agency that provides benefits to retirees, disabled workers, widows and children stockpiling ammunition? Whom are they going to use it on?
"It's not outlandish to suggest that the Social Security Administration is purchasing the bullets as part of preparations for civil unrest," the website Infowars.com said.
Another website, The Daily Caller, said the bullets must be for use against American citizens, "since the SSA has never been used overseas to help foreign countries maintain control of their citizens."
The clamor became such a distraction for the agency that it dedicated a website to explaining the purchase. The explanation, it turns out, isn't as tantalizing as an arms buildup to defend against unruly senior citizens.
The bullets are for Social Security's office of inspector general, which has about 295 agents who investigate Social Security fraud and other crimes, said Jonathan L. Lasher, the agency's assistant IG for external relations.
The agents carry guns and make arrests — 589 last year, Lasher said. They execute search warrants and respond to threats against Social Security offices, employees and customers.
Agents carry .357 caliber pistols, Lasher said. The bullets, which add up to about 590 per agent, are for the upcoming fiscal year. Most will be expended on the firing range.
Some bloggers have taken issue with the type of ammunition the agency is buying, questioning why agents need hollow-point bullets. Hollow-points are known for causing more tissue damage than other bullets when they hit a person because they expand when they enter the body.
The bullets, however, are standard issue for many law enforcement agencies, Lasher said, a fact confirmed by the directors of two law enforcement training centers.
"For practice ammunition, they do not have to be hollow-points, but hollow-points are the normal police round used for duty ammunition due to their ability to stop when they hit an object as opposed to going through it and striking more objects," said William J. Muldoon, president of the International Association of Directors of Law Enforcement Standards and Training.
"Six hundred rounds per year for training, qualification and I would assume to carry on duty is not out of line at all," said John W. Worden, director of the University of Missouri's Law Enforcement Training Institute. "Hollow points are carried by law enforcement all over the country and are probably the preferred type of ammo no matter what caliber."
The episode illustrates what can happen when a seemingly salacious tidbit gets amplified and embellished on the Internet.
A few weeks ago, the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration had a similar dustup when it solicited bids for 46,000 rounds of ammunition and shooting targets, seemingly to arm workers at the National Weather Service. It turns out the notice had a clerical error and the bullets were for NOAA's Fisheries Office of Law Enforcement, the agency said.
Social Security's turn in the pillory hit a crescendo when Jay Leno joked about it in a recent monologue on "The Tonight Show." ''What senior citizens are they worried about?" Leno asked. "I mean, who's going to storm the building?"
Lasher said, "That's why we opened a blog post. We were getting a lot of inquiries and the blog gave us a vehicle to put all of the accurate information out there in one place, so that those who are interested or concerned can read what the real story is."
___
Online:
Social Security IG blog: http://tinyurl.com/d4qcb43 (http://tinyurl.com/d4qcb43)
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Hey, I see that Magnum Research has a nice 30-30 revolver, now.
'Only' 17 1/2 inches long. :laugh:
Almost makes their Desert Ego look small.
It's so outrageous, I want one.
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Anybody ever suspect that all those hollowpoint bullets purchased by homeland security are being given to Obama's friends in Pakistan?
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Anybody ever suspect that all those hollowpoint bullets purchased by homeland security are being given to Obama's friends in Pakistan?
The CIA can get all the crazy types of bullets they want and give them to whoever they want
I suspect more that they are intended for future civil unrest
Things are not going to look very good starting next year
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I know this might be coloring outside the lines a little , but here is another theory! All these guys and gals that can carry guns in their jobs, really like to shoot and are spending time at the ranges that are free for their use as part of their job description. I came up with this theory after spending a day at the range and realizing there was brass embeded (I don't know how deep) in the ground all around every station....and a lot of people pick up brass to reload.....It sounds like they bought massive amounts....
I fired off 300 rounds .....granted I hadn't been shooting for a while, but that was one guy in a couple hours ....If you do the math, realize that they might enjoy shooting and can shoot often ....it's really not that scary to me........then again they may be getting ready to put us all in concentration camps....
I just don't know :l2:
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May be part of this too:
Illuminati Warning: Martial Law Plans Revealed? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LXfXuk6aWJc#)
who knows... those that do, won't tell us either way, or would deny it, even if it was true.
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Yes, massive terrorist attacks :l2:
This makes perfect sense. :w2:
We should all give up every last one of our rights and privacy so that we can all feel safe and sound.
I tend to point to what's happening in Europe right now with massive demonstations and police having to deal with very large angry crowds. And this situation is getting worse by the day.
Do not be surprised to see the same thing happening here in the good old USA when the curtain is pulled back and the financial system takes a massive dump.
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As far as the response from the SSA, bullsh*t. I don't believe anything this government says. As for the Glocks and kabooms, the hexagonal barrel is not made for firing lead bullets. You can shoot them in the standard Glock barrel, you just have to clean it every 100 rounds or so. I don't know the specifics of the kabooms mentioned earlier so I can't really comment on them.
I have a G-30 that I carry. I like the .45 as I used it in the Marine Corps and I've seen what it can do. As a matter of fact, the Marine Corps just announced that it was returning to the .45ACP. I don't know the specifics but I'm sure you can look it up online. I do know that they purchased somewhere in the neighborhood of 20,000 of the new .45s. I'm not against any other calibers as I have some of them, too. I really like the .357 magnum. I can load light loads for target shooting/plinking, massive loads for hog hunting and self defense rounds, also. I have a 4" GP-100 that is probably the toughest gun that I own. It's a lot of fun to shoot, too!
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Just noticed this topic. I'm Archery Co-Chairman and Archery Range Officer at the Metropolitan Rod & Gun Club in Brooklyn, NY. My son, who leaves in PA, & I have recently gotten into reloading, mostly for his AR-15 in 223 Rem; then 30-06; 338 Win Mag and soon 7mm Mauser. Our best 5 shot groups with his AR-15 fit inside the diameter of a penny at 100 yds. Lately we've had trouble getting the headspace right while resizing brass for his AR-15 -- the chamber is cut for 5.56mm. Thinking maybe a Wylde, min SAAMI 223. or custom barrel might help with chamber dimensions. (Also have a couple of Glocks and a Keltech in 9mm).
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Funny you should mention AR15.
My buddy is building me one from scratch right now
I'll post some pics when he gest it finished
Can't wait to take it to the range and see how she performs
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This one? http://nemoarms.com/portfolio/tione-serial-no-1titanium-308-battle-rifle/ (http://nemoarms.com/portfolio/tione-serial-no-1titanium-308-battle-rifle/)
They're great for throwing in the back of the truck to go plinking down at the range ;)
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That one looks slick, hate to see what it cost
My buddy is a gunsmith
He buys all the parts and assembles them custom
He is only charging me $750 for my AR15
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Doug,
That's a great price for a finished AR-15. These puppies are all bolt or pin together sets of assemblies, much like a Fender guitar. They can be built, rebuilt & customized to taste with lots of different features, that appeal to you the user. For the most part you don't need gunsmithing experience, though special tools can be needed for some projects. With your hands-on experience on guitars, amps, bikes, CNC, etc., you could build or customize your own AR. There are DVD's, manuals, youtube video's etc.
Some DIY stuff we did to my son';s AR-15: free float handguard with lo profile gas block; Burris 3 - 9X scope on lightweight rings. Locking buttstock (has 2nd lock mechanism to eliminate wiggle) + adjustable cheekpad. Cheek weld to the stock is an issue with these weapons, due to the in-line barrel configuration. Shimmed the rear scope ring for about 15 MOA forward tilt (also re-ground the the innder scope ring surfaces). This gets the center of the scope on target -- another issue with AR's due to the height of the scope of over the line of bore. Little rubber wiggle remover between upper & lower receivers.
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Cool, I'll have to figure all that out once I actually have mine in hand
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My newest addition is an AR15
I have several accesories on the way
A scope, a couple laser sights, a hand guard with rails on it.
I wanted a rifle to round out the pistol and shotgun arsenal and here's me new toy
This thing shoots really nice
I was hitting the targets with iron sights at 100 meters no problem (sitting with the gun propped on a bean bag rest)
I thought I would grab one before those idiots in Washington con the public into thinking that everyone would be safe once all assualt rifles have been crushed and burned.
Pisses me off so much I joined NRA last week
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grab one before those idiots in Washington con the public into thinking that everyone would be safe once all assualt rifles have been crushed and burned.
I can appreciate your view point! I'm not keen on D.C. at all and definitely not supportive of the liberal agenda regarding the 2nd amendment.
with respect, Jeff
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Very nice indeed. It's impossible to find anything even close to an AR-15 around me (Chicagoland area, including NW Indiana).
I did buy my first gun this Saturday. An FN Herstal FNX-9mm. It's a peach :)
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You did not say which model blew up
You would think that law enforcement officers would not want to use something that blows up.
Or maybe the officers all in love with guns that blow up?
Just asking logical questions
guns that blow up ..was it this one ,,, charlene,,,,LOL :l2:
well once i finish with building amps ,,its fun making amps ..
this is just a thought
if all starts to go bad .this will maybe a good hobby..
flying guns .
http://www.youtube.com/user/FPSRussia?feature=watch (http://www.youtube.com/user/FPSRussia?feature=watch)
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I can appreciate your view point! I'm not keen on D.C. at all and definitely not supportive of the liberal agenda regarding the 2nd amendment
Their main agenda is to disarm the american people
It had nothing to do with school kids
That's just their vehicle to con the american public
And the sad part is that many people are dumb enough to go along with it
rifles today, pistols next year, shotguns the year after
You could drive a car onto a playground and take out a ton of children, but do you think they would ban cars?
You could run through a shopping mall with a large knife and take out a boatload of people, do you think they would be able to ban knife sales.
Think about how nice it must be to live in Great Britan and then think about what we have here.
England-Living on an small island, surrounded by water, no guns and security cameras on every street corner
It's imperitive that we protect the constitution and our civil liberties
The founding fathers were not stupid
There is a reason they drafted those documents the way they did
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It's imperitive that we protect the constitution and our civil liberties
The founding fathers were not stupid
There is a reason they drafted those documents the way they did
Yep, they where very smart.
Brad :icon_biggrin:
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hi
its more safer in the USA then in great britain.
poor school kids ,,,,,,,my heart is cracked
so ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
we had this new gun registry here that wasted a few billion dollars .
thats what will happen,, waste money.
i had two phone calls from the police here to register my 22 ruger . my other guns were registred .
well they said ,, felt like a threat . come to my house and charge me ..
i said no.... not registerying it . they never came . the law has now been dropped .
your government should go back to school to learn some math ..then they should be able to count money .
my provincial government as well. ONTARIO >what a nut we just had here .
the look on the presidents face ..to me its a scared face .
...........classified .......
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Pisses me off so much I joined NRA last week
I've been a member for years , glad you joined the team......I have gotten a few people to join over the years ....a giant surge of members will send a great message......I hope it is enough ...the grab has DEFINATELY begun in earnest ....
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I only have about 2,000 rounds to defend myself from my government.
I think I may need more.
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Their main object is to disarm the american public
The government no longer has any regard for the constitution
Their main vehicle is to lay some bs story on the general public and get them to go along with it
More children are killed in automobiles than any other method
They should ban automobiles or maybe just a law that says that no children can ride in them
Hows that sound for logic?
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EL-34: Congrats on your new AR-15!
BTW: I thought politics was banned here, but it looks like EL-34 is an "offender"!! :l2: Let's suffice it to say that I agree with your views on firearms, the Constitution, the FED, etc.
Anyway, AR's are surprisingly accurate, as you describe. It can become addictive. If you want to get in to accuracy or hand-loading topics, keep posting!
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I tried to explain this to a former member
Complaining about the US government and how screwed up it is is not politics to me
To me politics is arguing about this candidate compared to that one, and all that BS
I don't have a party and am not involved in politics so I don't care about politicians
The main goal of all politicians is to get elected and then re-elected and stay in office
They would never do what is right for the country because that means telling the truth to the public
Then that means they will be voted out of office.
So there's your catch 22 and my take on the government
Soon enough 50% of the population will be sponging off the remaining working population as government bloats even more and US citizens continue to vote for free hand outs.
If a politician had the backbone to say, hey, we need to reduce the government and all these free programs, they would not be in office very long
Instead of trying to collecty more taxes, how about reducing the oversized and bloated government
So I am not arguing about republicans or demorats because they are all just in it to protect their jobs
Feel free to post about governemt crap but don't start arguments about Romney VS Obama, that's politics, IMO
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The statement is often quoted as "In a democracy, people get the government they deserve," and often attributed to Alexis de Toqueville ... but it's hard to verify where he said it, and even whether he really did. . . However, there is a similar and well-documented quotation by Joseph de Maistre: "Every country has the government it deserves (Toute nation a le gouvernement qu’elle mérite") One of the sources below gives its origin as de Maistre's Lettres et Opuscules Inédits vol. 1, letter 53, written on 15 August 1811 and published in 1851. http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20081021103757AAbfmpx (http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20081021103757AAbfmpx)
You can blame politicians and lawyers (BTW: I'm both), but the American ideal as held by the People has morphed from "rugged individualism" to a sense of dependency & entitlement. How did this happen?
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You got that right
Entitlements and more Entitlements
The general public loves to vote for more and more of those and they will vote against any politician that they think is gonna remove their free ride
They must think the money just magically appears in the US treasuries bank account
The government and all these people getting free rides will consume the nation until there are no more tax payers to support the ponzy scheme
I have paid social security since 1970 and I am entitled to that since I contributed alot of money, but this whole welfare state thing is getting out of control
It's getting really bad and I do believe that any system is only meant to last for a certain period of time before it collapses from it's own stupidity
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I have paid social security since 1970 and I am entitled to that since I contributed a lot of money,
And so an entire nation has been co-opted into a sense of entitlement, which grows & grows. There's another way of looking at this - that the money you "contributed" has been misappropriated from Peter, and given to Paul. But I don't want to get into an argument.
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Argument about what?
I am not talking about people who have contibuted to social security
There are way more entitlements out there than just social security
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I'm suggesting that Social Security was a significant step in the direction which helped pave the way to where we are today.
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Per Dictionary: Entitlements are laws based on concepts of principle ("rights") which are themselves based in concepts of social equality or enfranchisement. (now who was it that originated the idea...Marx?....Lenin?....)
SS (should have been) is just a government run pension. Those are two completely different concepts. SS is not an entitlement if I pay into it for an eventual return. Unfortunately SS was set up by politicians who insisted they were smarter than the rest of us. The fact that it was robbed only points to those responsible in Washington who should be in jail for fraud and extortion.
We recovered from the hypocrisy known as the "New Deal" through some tough legislation and a major party swing - but that was way back before Christmas trees offended people. We are still feeling the increasing pain of Johnson's Hypocrisy Part II known as the "Great Society". Now we have the overbearing weight of Hypocrisy Part III known as Obamacare. What I'm afraid of is that after my own government, what will be the next major threat? I think it will be from the entitled. When the checks stop coming, who is it that will be revolting in the streets? Having lost their cultural DNA long ago to be productive citizens, what will be left for them? I'm afraid it will be these people who I will be defending my family against.
jjasilli - Yeah where has all the "rugged individualism" gone.... Yet it still amazes me that although the latest cutting edge product may not be manufactured here, it was thought up and designed here. BUT the person who risks everything on a daily basis to build a company, gives of their their blood, sweat, and tears 24/7, employs people, and somehow manages to be successful - is then demonized for that success by an extreme, polarizing administration. The business owner is forced to pay even more taxes for those who are capable and yet do nothing, or regulated into extinction. Bad successful people! Sounds like a recipe for economic recovery....
Oh, and not to split hairs..but the basic premise of our country is that of a Constitutional Republic. The Founder's feared a democracy. However, when you ignore the Constitution, you are nothing more than exactly what the Founder's feared. Darn lawyers and polititians! :wink: I'll refrain from my Mark Twain quotes.... :icon_biggrin: I have good friends who are fantastic attorneys who can sleep at night (an oxymoron?!?!) - and who are also in local and state politics. We may not agree on every single thing, but they are fierce defenders of the Constitution. IMHO, that's the way it should be. Once you establish the rules, a healthy debate based on that unchanging premise is good for everyone. To bend or ignore it to suit your agenda is utterly reprehensible.
Jim
Jim
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I'm suggesting that Social Security was a significant step in the direction which helped pave the way to where we are today.
Woah! Don't fall into the typical politician "philosophy" that this was your money to do with as you pleased! It should have been protected and isolated from spending. The fact that it is near bankruptcy is completely on Washington. Assigning blame does not change where we are today. It is just another on the long list of taking from the productive to push an agenda.
Jim
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:think1: The Beatles - Revolution [HD] (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wBP3nq0OtZE#ws)
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I'm suggesting that Social Security was a significant step in the direction which helped pave the way to where we are today.
And the New Deal.
I have been told that Social Security was supposed to be temporary when it was enacted, to get people through the Depression. I am too lazy to document that though. :icon_biggrin:
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I have been told that Social Security was supposed to be temporary when it was enacted,
i believe that was federal income tax - civil war era. to help raise money for and pay for a war and the birth of internal revenue service.
i believe that SS was enacted with the intent to be permanent.
--DL
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Sorry, I guess I helped hijack this thread which was supposed to be on guns!
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jjasilli - Sorry! Now that I went back and re-read your post I think I misunderstood your statement - yes I agree with you. Sorry about that! And we are talking about guns and the possible need for self defense!
Jim
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LOl,
It's easy to get people going on the Federal government topic.
Anyone seen any polls on how the population is voting on this gun issue
One that I took showed that the majority were not in favor of banning assault rifles
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Why a constitutional republic?
I once saw democracy defined as two wolves and a sheep voting on what to have for lunch.
Most of my friends have given up on voting and are just stockpiling ammo.
I'd like to see congress pass a law to stop 'borrowing' from SS and force all the other alphabet agencys to pay back what they got from it.
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I'd like to see congress pass a law to stop 'borrowing' from SS and force all the other alphabet agencys to pay back what they got from it.
They can't, there is no money
Where does this magic money come from?
We are so deeply in debt that any rise in interest rates will tip the whole system over the cliff
We would not even be able to service the interest on the money we owe
The system is all based on borrowing money, debt and a currency that is backed by NOTHING
It has taken 40 years since Nixon took us off the Gold standard (Bretton Woods) to get to this point with our current FIAT money system
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bretton_Woods_system (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bretton_Woods_system)
To top it off, we are in debt to a private corporation (The FED) who prints money out of thin air (The biggest Ponzi scehme ever invented)
It has already tipped too far the wrong direction and they have mortgaged the future of all generations to come
It's very sad to see happen
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Most of my friends have given up on voting
That's a big part of the problem.
The people who are getting "free" stuff are still voting. While the people who are paying taxes are giving up.
Their counting on this to happen. That's why they are "giving" stuff away for "free". If the people are dependant on them they will always be voted in. Their buying votes with working/tax paying peoples money. They want people dependent on them, government. :BangHead: :cussing:
Europe did this for several decades. They ran on giving the people "free" stuff and the people bought into it. They told them they deserved it. Now look at them. Riots in the streets and it's just getting started.
Brad :BangHead: :cussing:
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jjasilli - Sorry! Now that I went back and re-read your post I think I misunderstood your statement - yes I agree with you. Sorry about that! And we are talking about guns and the possible need for self defense!
Jim
Vulcan mind meld!?! At first reading I thought your post was in disagreement, but soon concluded you were actually agreeing. :occasion14:
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It's hard to find reliable opinion polls on public support of "gun control" or an "assault weapons ban". Here's one thing I googled: "Sixty-three percent of Americans said they favor a nationwide ban on assault weapons, according to a 2011 CBS/New York Times poll, and 63 percent favored banning high-capacity magazines that hold many rounds of ammunition. . . We found, in a 2011 survey we conducted for the Brady Center to Prevent Gun Violence, that 57 percent of Americans support a law that would limit the size of ammunition clips so that the gun could not fire more than 10 bullets without having to be reloaded. Only a third, or 34 percent, of Americans opposed that law." http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/2012/12/15/public-agrees-next-step-is-gun-control/ (http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/2012/12/15/public-agrees-next-step-is-gun-control/)
Nevertheless, in our democracy a dedicated vocal minority can often get its way. This is a well-known issue appropriately called Tyranny by the Minority. Gun control activists, even if a minority, have the political benefit of fervent, personal devotion to their cause coupled with solidarity. By analogy, if one labor union goes on strike, other unions are likely to honor it. I think gun owners are more individualistic and lack solidarity. In my experience an upland bird hunter who uses a double-barrel shotgun may not care if some else's AR-15 is taken away. Worse, they may even favor it to pacify the noisy gun control advocates. Such lack of solidarity and personal political activism on the part of gun owners is a practical problem.
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Back around 150 BC a Roman Senator noted that once the Senate realizes that they can bribe the people with their own money the Republic is lost.
Soon after that the Senators began giving away tax money to different groups that they needed to buy votes from.
Not long after they entered into the Empire of Rome, which lead to the decline.
Sound familiar?
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Good info. I'm familiar with this principle from "The Prince" by Machiavelli (who gets a bad rap by taking a coldly rational view of the affairs of State, rather than a passionate or compassionate one). He warns that a Prince is easily tempted to pacify the people by granting them boons, but the downside is that this depletes the state's treasury, which in turn leads to higher & higher taxes, etc., which in turn leads to more public discontent. Anyway it's interesting that this problem is not confined to democracies.
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Back around 150 BC a Roman Senator noted that once the Senate realizes that they can bribe the people with their own money the Republic is lost.
Yep.
He warns that a Prince is easily tempted to pacify the people by granting them boons, but the downside is that this depletes the state's treasury, which in turn leads to higher & higher taxes, etc., which in turn leads to more public discontent. Anyway it's interesting that this problem is not confined to democracies.
Yep.
If you look at how at how dictators get in power by revolution thru history, it's pretty much the same. The nations economy is in shambles and he comes in as the hero with a way to save them.
He tells them it's not your fault and points to some group of people, whether by race/nationality or standing/sector in their nation and blames them. He/they use the peoples angry, fear, etc, to ride on and once the revolution is over and all the blood is shead there's no turning back. Now their trapped by the new powers in place and the utopia they were promised by getting rid of the people who where the "problem and cause of their misery" never materializes. And in reality it's much, much worse.
Brad :w2:
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. . .and speaking of double barrel shotguns: http://pjmedia.com/blog/misfire-joe-bidens-shotgun-vs-rifle-comments/ (http://pjmedia.com/blog/misfire-joe-bidens-shotgun-vs-rifle-comments/)
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Guys,
For any of you who are reasonably experienced shooters or consider yourself a decent shot .......................
I hope you can give some type of reference point of how I am doing shooting? Most of my experience is with a revolver with 8.5" barrell in an outdoors setting. With that revolver I can consistently shoot groupings that fit inside my hand at around 30 feet.
Now I'm shooting a semi-auto 9mm & I have very very little experience with semi-auto pistols.
Today is my first experience with that gun. I admit to being a total newbee at shooting a semi-auto.
I took it slow and shot in groups of 5. At around 30 ft, I shot 14 of 40 shots within the area of my hand. 8 of those within the area of my palm. The last 5 shots today were all within my palm & 3 of those within a half dollar.
I am better with the revolver at this stage.
My only reference point was looking at the guys next to me and their target shooting which wasn't that great. However, my guess is they probably are fairly new to shooting given what I saw? And I think they were using a 45?
At 30 ft, what type of groupings would be reasonably good? Am I headed the right direction on this? I have far more experience with shotguns and rifles so I don't know what "above average" would be?
Thanks, Tubenit
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I'd say your grouping was good enough by the sound of it
Did you get to blast off several quickies to see how you do in fast firing mode?
I haven't shot my Glocks enough yet.
I plan on going to an indoor range soon and blow through some ammo
I got to shoot both Glocks a couple weeks ago, but only 1 mag each or 30 rounds total
I was shooting at 8 inch targets maybe 25 to 30 feet away and putting them all on the target
The Glock 17 with the laser was way easier to get smaller groups than the Glock 26.
Both Glocks were very nice to shoot
I also got to blast several shells through my 12 ga shotgun with the pistol grip
It was a beast and not something I plan on doing very much
That thing kicked like a mule and was real rough on the right wrist
That would be the go to weapon if I ever had to jump up in the middle of the night and take action.
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I was shooting at 8 inch targets maybe 25 to 30 feet away and putting them all on the target
OK, I appreciate the reference point! That's definitely better than what I was doing overall. I've got some more work to do. I think I can get there, maybe?
I'm reasonably confidant that I could typically hit 8 inch targets with the revolver at that range.
I did not try firing rapidly but plan to do that next time out just to see where I am? I will wait until most of my groupings are
within the size of my hand before I practice shooting rapidly.
THANKS for the response! I appreciate it.
Best regards, Jeff
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I got to go to the indoor range soon.
Taking my two Glocks and my AR15 to dial in the scope and laser sights I got for it
The AR15 is just as much fun to shoot as the Pistols
EDIT: I found my 3 pistol targets and circled the holes
The outer circle is 8 inches in diameter
The last image is a blank target. You can print them on a 8 1/2 x 11 sheet of paper.
I put 1 inch grid lines on it so you can adjust the sights and a scope
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I would say that is very nice shooting. Groupings are pretty close to one another for sure. Mine were not that good with the semi-auto.
Thanks for the visual.
Both times I went to the indoor range, there were people next to me. 3 next to me the first time and 2 this recent time. Honestly, their shooting was way all over the place. They had a silouette of a person and there were holes spread everyway and including a significant number outside the silouette. With the group of 3, there target was about 5 to 8 feet closer than mine.
Ironically, my wife went with me for her first time a few weeks ago and shot the revolver. This is her first time ever shooting a pistol. Almost every one of her groupings (6 to grouping) would fit inside my hand perimeter. She was as good or better than I was. But then she was a Kansas farm girl so I'd sort expected she'd know how to shoot. She had shot rifles as a kid and teenager.
:icon_biggrin:
It was a good reminder for me to behave myself. :l2:
Jeff
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Some of those shots were slow aims and then some were blasting off 3 to 5 rounds very quickly
I wanted to see how I did squeezing off severals rounds quickly
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some were blasting off 3 to 5 rounds very quickly
Ok, that even more impressive! Cool
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I'm no expert by any measure, but it sounds like you're on the right track. IMO, biggest mistake I've made early on (with semi-auto) was shooting too quickly just cuz it's so much fun. But every shot adds to your muscle memory, and shooting fast teaches bad habits. Starting slow, and watching the front sight is great practice. When you get to where you can see the sight begin to lift, it's a great feeling.
One thing I struggled with when I was still shooting regularly was shooting low and left, caused by "milking the grip". Apparently it's a common thing with the Glock pistols; mine's a G19.
No surprise your wife was so good, 'nit. Women usually shoot better than men, not sure why. And the group next to you... well, the .45 recoils much more than the 9mm, which is why so many people that insist on having one can't shoot it fer shit. :laugh: Don't get me wrong, I know plenty of guys who can dot the i with theirs, and plenty more who can't hit a barn with it. My favorite pistol is a .22 revolver. But haven't shot any pistols for a couple years now.
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Your shooting is good. Probably the best way to judge is to google NRA or State rules for pistol competition. You will see distances, target & target ring sizes; and scoring rules. Also, categories of accomplishment by group sizes, which translates into scores. Then you can score your own targets for an objective evaluation.
There's only so much a person can do on their own. Ultimately it's all about form & consistency, which is hard to evaluate about yourself. Sometimes working on one aspect of form unknowingly causes some other aspect to degrade. Suggestions to improve: make videos of your shooting; a smartphone on a tripod works. Join a competitive team at your local club. The top shooters will usually give very good advice. Also, new competitive shooters shouldn't worry about hurting the team's score. Usually the rules provide that the lowest scores are discarded.
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'Nit,
THe reason you are better with the revolver is the longer sight radius - longer barrel, greater distance between front and back sights. There are lots of u-toob videos on shooting, but this guy is the Ritchie Blackmore of pistol shooters, Rob Leatham. This is one of his interviews on the basics, which, other than the interview location, is very good.
Rob Leatham - World Champion Pistol Shooter Talks About...Pistol Shooting (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CqqhSSiU_j8#ws)
Any one of his "Drill of the Month" videos are good too. Even though they are somewhat competition oriented, they are just good all-around basic principles to good gun control. Your spreads are still quite good!
Jim
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Sight radius is a likely factor, but there's many other factors which may or may not be in play. Different grips. It's common to torque (twist) a semi-auto upon firing, especially Glocks. Different reach to trigger. Different part of trigger finger on trigger. Trigger pull feels much different; different weight of pull. Different style sights & sight picture.
If you have a laser dot projecting device for the semi-auto, use it while dry firing the pistol and watch what the dot does. (This is useful as a test, but note that it requires focusing on the target instead of on the front sight.)
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Been reading that a lot of the firearms manufacturers are not selling to federal, state, or local government agencies in areas that have passed new gun laws against the law abiding. While that all sounds good, when it comes down to million dollar contracts, that would be a hard pill to swallow.... I hope they hold out, but everyone has to keep the doors open and pay the bills. We shall see.
Jim
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Took my carry concealed course yesterday and got my certificate
Got to go to the sherriff dept to put in my application
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Got certified as an NRA RSO (Range Safety Officer) this past weekend.
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nice
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OK, I tried shooting at 21 ft and 28 ft (over half at 28ft). Most shots were in groups of 5 & fired around 1 per second.
Out of 50 shots, 20 were inside my hand print. 9 were in a bullseye that was 2" x 3".
Starting to make a little progress, I think. I can get back on site in about a second for the most part.
It's fun to be able to shoot that rapidly, but at this juncture .......... I still somewhat prefer a revolver. I think I'd really like a .357 revolver S&W with 6.5" barrell.
http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Product4_750001_750051_765944_-1_757903_757767_757751_ProductDisplayErrorView_Y (http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Product4_750001_750051_765944_-1_757903_757767_757751_ProductDisplayErrorView_Y)
With respect, Tubenit
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Nice!!
I have added some goodies to my AR15
Front grip that doubles as a bi-pod
front pictinny rail
rear pictinny rail extension to raise the scope up
4 x 32 scope
Laser sight with several shapes and green or red laser
Getting ready to head over to the indoor range to sight in the scope and a laser sight
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That is a fierce looking weapon!!! :huh: :huh:
I shoot at a indoor range but sure prefer shooting outdoors.
Jeff
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Just got back from the range
Got the scope dialed in pretty good
The range only has a 40 yard max range, but I had to use 25 yards to set the scope
Got to shoot off a couple mags each on my Glocks also
The AR15 is really fun to shoot
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Sounds like fun!
I had a Ruger 7x57 deer rifle that was sighted in well enough for me to drop a buck that was prancing/trotting across a fire lane at my uncle's farm at 130 yds only using the gun strap for a brace. It was really windy that day with about 20-30 mph gusts in East Texas. To be honest, it was somewhat a lucky shot. The deer fell right over and didn't make it 10 ft.
I had used a sand bag to help dial in the sight & I'm thinking I maybe sighted it in at around 70 yds?
Jeff
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@ EL34: I figured it wouldn't be long before you started modding & customizing. One important thing for accuracy is cheek weld*. Your cheek needs to be firmly against the butt stock, while your eye peers through the sight. It looks like your scope is the right height for that. If not, it can be adjusted: at the buttstock; with riser height; or with scope ring height.
Your scope setup seems to render the front sight superfluous. Options are to replace it with a fold down front sight (a new gas block will be needed too); or a new gas block with no front sight. Then you'll have an extra front sight, with little recourse but to build another AR behind it! :icon_biggrin:
This weekend my son & I built an upper assembly with a DPMS 18" barrel in .223/5.56 1:8 twist, onto a DPMS Lo Pro upper receiver; with a Hogue rifle-length forend. A 2-rail gas block & rifle length gas tube were lying around in the parts draw. The receiver was removed from a DPMS full upper assembly sporting a 16" pencil barrel. The 16" barrel will now go on a DPMS A2 upper just acquired, for iron sights only. Another DPMS Lo Pro upper is awaiting a custom Kreiger barrel 28" stainless chambered for 223 match, 1:9 twist. (Last weekend I electrified a Takamine acoustic guitar for a bartender who books my acoustic duet at a local bar. This sure is the right Forum.)
We still need free float tubes; bolt carrier assemblies; lower receivers and lower parts. Everything is mostly unobtanium, but waiting lists and patience is paying off.
* (N.B. some competition shooters swear by chin weld. It keeps the head erect. I never tried it, and never would with a round more powerful than .223 -- I suspect it's a good way to bite off your tongue!)
@ tubenit I have a 7X57 Mauser Espagnol. This round has a great reputation for dropping deer in their tracks. That's my personal experience too. Works the same on wild boar!
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Thanks for the tips
I had watched this video first which covered cheek weld
There some great info in this vid
Set up Your Scope for Success - Rifle Shooting Technique - NSSF Shooting Sportscast (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=COoXVpGfXQE#ws)
I set up the height and distance away from my eye by closing my eyes and then putting my cheek on the stock and then opening my eyes.
The scope was way too low so I used some shims under the scope and raised it up till the height was right
Then I ordered that riser you see under the scope for the height that I needed.
I had to move the scope that far forward until I got rid of the scope shadow
It's set up nice now
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That's a very good video. Some comments. It uses a bolt action rifle with traditional profile: the line of bore higher than shoulder mount height . An AR-15 is in-line: the line of bore = shoulder mount height. This pushes line of sight way higher, about 2-1/4" instead of the traditional 1-1/2".
A cheek riser placed on the buttstock of an AR-15 may interfere with cocking the bolt, especially if the butt is not all the way back with an adjustable buttstock. You seem to have cured this issue with riser height, though your tastes may change over time.
Note that scope mounting screws and scope rings threads are cut implying the use of cutting oil. Over time this may interfere with a firm scope mount. Don't assume that the cutting oil has been removed. Hence, always first Degrease the screws AND the scope ring threads. Then apply blue or purple (NEVER red) Loctite to the threads. Then tighten the scope ring screws to 26 INCH pounds (Not FOOT pounds). Or follow the instructions in the video to a snug hand tight. If you crush the scope barrel, you lose. It is always a good idea to ream & polish the inside of your scope rings, unless you're using Burris Signature rings with the plastic inserts. These can also be used to compensate for the high AR-15 scope mount with a 15 MOA forward tilt. My son & I use a double thickness of soda can under the rear scope mount for this. (If it were me alone, I'd use a beer can.) Note that this is done between the scope ring and the rail; never inside the ring under the scope.
The forward scope cant is used so you can look through the center of a high-mounted scope, instead of through the edge of the lens. Post if you want more info.
Speaking of cant, some shooters prefer to cant an AR-15; i.e., purposefully not hold it perpendicular to the ground. In that case the scope may be canted the other way, to compensate so that the cross-hairs are perpendicular to the ground when the rifle is at preferred cant. Note that canting a firearm will alter its point of impact at distance.
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Thanks for the info
I knew the first time I looked through the scope I didn't need to raise my cheek :icon_biggrin:
The video was more useful to me as to how to find the correct height by closing your eyes and then placing your cheek on the stock
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Doug,
Thanks for posting the targets. I printed off a handful and used them today. My shooting wasn't very good today but I had fun with it.
Last 5 shots I did with shooting about 1 second apart. 27' away. The "blue" ring is slightly larger than a silver dollar. I tape over holes and use the target for maybe 15+ shots and then grab another one.
It doesn't show up on the scanned target but inside the blue ring, I colored it with a yellow highlighter pen.
Jeff
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The targets I gave you are 8 inches across at the outer ring
I'd say your shooting was good enough at 27 feet
If that was a torso or head, you'd be good to go
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Here's some specific competition pistol target info: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bullseye_(shooting_competition) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bullseye_(shooting_competition))
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My father qualified "expert" in the Air Force with a revolver that I have inherited. I am presuming and wondering if the "expert" that he got was consistent with those definitions/guidelines of expert? This would have been around '66, I think?
With respect, Jeff
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Here's some info on competitive pistol classifications: http://www.bullseyepistol.com/comp.htm (http://www.bullseyepistol.com/comp.htm) & http://www.tts-idpa.net/images/Classifications_and_Divisions.pdf (http://www.tts-idpa.net/images/Classifications_and_Divisions.pdf)
These are NRA classifications. Military classifications may differ. Also, criteria may have changed over time.
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I don't see anything wrong with background checks to weed out mentally unstable people and criminals
But I think Obama and all these other idiots that have some sort of pet gun bill have more up their sleeves than just background checks
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I think Obama and all these other idiots that have some sort of pet gun bill have more up their sleeves than just background checks
Totally agree with that.
Jeff
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Who determines what is "mentally unstable"? No way. At what criminal offense is the cut-off? A cop notates that you were belligerent during a traffic stop because you disagreed with him. Now you are a risk. Again, no way. What a slippery slippery slope. All these rules and new legislation driven by the left agenda to disarm and the right's need to "just do something". It has been proven over and over that all the legislation, past/present/proposed, would have had absolutely no impact on preventing the tragic shootings - other than making it more difficult for the law abiding to defend themselves. My goodness, just look at Fort Hood. The ridiculous policy of no sidearms on base unless you are MP. How many lives could have been saved had even one been carrying. They had the same policy over in the sand box. Unreal... I hope that has changed.
If these windbags want to make a difference, make the castle law legal everywhere and impenetrable to ANY legal action once innocence is determined - federal, state, local, or private. Make a CCW interaction to prevent loss of life likewise impenetrable. In either case the scumbag's family can now sue you into oblivion, just because you prevented some idiot from killing you. Uphold the laws that are currently on the books would go a long way. That would be a great job for EH, but he is too busy busting Gibson and old retired orchid growers to be bothered - oh, and sending guns to mexico. That press conference yesterday by our fertilizer spreader in chief was pathetic grandstanding and manipulation at it's disgusting worst. I can not imagine the horror and suffering those parents went through - but the left agenda could care less about them. How sick that was.
Jeff, I have been to car swap meets, Star Trek conventions, horse sales, and yes, gun shows. They all had people with different interests and motivations and certainly varied degrees of "enthusiasm". And while I would never dress up in a Jeff Gordon driving suit, as a Klingon, or show up in camo and surplus military garb - I would not consider any of those people a threat to society. I know people who obsess over every screw and spring in a 1911 pistol like we tweak an amp. Funning thing is either one can kill you if you do not handle it properly. The average person thinks we are crazy for our obsession over tubes that can be so dangerous. I hope you are not confusing enthusiasm with something YOU are not comfortable with. I have noticed a difference in attitude in gun shops and shows. People feel threatened by this administration. It's not a fun purchase any more. Most people are wondering if a certain firearm will be manufactured in the future? Will they be legal? Why the shortages? Will the SHTF some day? There are a LOT of folks who understand and take the true meaning of the Second Amendment to heart. It has nothing to do with hunting.
Jim
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You love enthusiasm? Comeon...you play a Tele! You expect me to believe that? :icon_biggrin:
I understand your concern. However, I can go to any number of "health professionals" and lawyers and get social security benefits for any number of "ailments" even though I am fully able bodied. If it can go in that direction, it can sure go in the other. You must also remember that one man's extremism is another's patriotic concern. Until the page is turned on violence, what other protected right will you infringe on? You see, that is the problem. There are plenty of laws on the books right now preventing felons from gun ownership. There are laws protecting us from people with a history of drunk driving, and doctors with "issues". If they are not enforced, they mean nothing. If nobody says anything about an at-risk case, they mean nothing. You are suggesting that I subject my daughter to a background check because I want to give her one of my grandpa's rifles? I can't sell a friend a rifle? Oh and I'm sure there will be a substantial costs involved with the checks. After all, we will need to pay yet another government worker sitting at a desk at city hall as they tabulate and report to whatever government agency that requests. Oh, the assault rifle thing... You mean that regular rifle with a pistol grip that looks scary? Come on...
The absolute bottom line is the bad people will not, and do not, follow the law. As I posted before, none of the current or proposed laws would have done anything to stop the tragedies in the last few years. Since the 1994 Federal Assault Weapons Ban expired in September 2004 (Remember the scary gun and extra capacity clip law?), murder and overall violent-crime rates have fallen. In 2003, the last full year before the law expired, the U.S. murder rate was 5.7 per 100,000 people, according to the Federal Bureau of Investigation's Uniform Crime Report. By 2011, the murder rate fell to 4.7 per 100,000 people. Remember that just 2.6% of all murders are committed using any type of rifle.
This sounds exactly like what you are asking for:
Government classifies which guns are for "sporting purposes".
All citizens who wished to purchase firearms had to register with officials and have a background check.
Government presumed citizens were hostile and thereby required participation in the gun control law. Government officials were exempt from the law.
Government has unrestricted power to decide what kinds of firearms could, or could not be owned by private persons.
The types of ammunition that were legal were subject to control by bureaucrats.
Juveniles under 18 years could not buy firearms and ammunition.
Nazi Weapons Act of 1938 (Translated to English)
A free country comes with risks attributed to those freedoms. Those risks can also come from the abuse of those freedoms or by those who abuse my rights. I'll take the risk above government control any day. However, you MUST allow me to protect myself against those who would abuse those freedoms and my rights. You can't have one without the other. There is no sliding scale between the two.
I love these quotes:
“Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom, must, like men, undergo the fatigues of supporting it.” – Thomas Paine, The Crisis, No. 4, 1777
“the price of liberty is eternal vigilance” and that “liberty can just as easily be lost by neglect from within as by attack from without” Thurman Sensing
I'll quote another wise man:
"I hate you! You have ruined my life! Please send me money for Led Zeppelin tickets..."
Jim
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My father qualified "expert" in the Air Force with a revolver that I have inherited. I am presuming and wondering if the "expert" that he got was consistent with those definitions/guidelines of expert?
It depends on the course of fire, which varies by branch of service. There are often multiple courses of fire with different requirements (and challenges) even within one branch, and for one weapon.
You & I oughta get together to shoot next time I get back in town. :icon_biggrin:
I've only shot rifles with the Army, but qualified Expert on the 9mm when I was in the Navy, shooting 238 out of a possible 240 points. Their particular course of fire uses a man-sized silhouette, but gives the max 5 points per shot only for the center ring of the target. It also requires timed shots; with the time including drawing from a holster, flipping off safe, firing and flipping back on safe. Typical is 2 shots in 4 seconds, or 4 shots in 6 seconds (which also includes swapping magazines to reload). The Navy course also requires shooting strong hand supported, and weak hand unsupported, at ranges from as short as 7 yards out to 25 yards.
Needless to say, at the time I shot the 238, I was doing a LOT of handgun shooting at the range.
Anyway, I say all that to bring up the point that there are a lot of fine points to work on for target shooting. Stance, grip, trigger squeeze, point-of-aim (which varies with different weapons and distance). And when learning/practicing this stuff, it helps to go and work on only one aspect of shooting at a time, and not really worrying about where you're hitting the target (except as a diagnostic tool for things like "palming," "anticipation," or trigger-pull that pushes the weapon off-target).
And if you're inclined, I still have my reloading press sitting in storage; you can reload spent brass for very much less than buying ammo. I don't have a need for the press or reloading stuff now, so you can have it (you'd just need to get dies appropriate for the calibers you need to reload).
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Excellent, my friend! Yeah, let's go shoot together! I'd like that. Give me a heads up next time you're headed down & have some time and we'll try to make that happen. I was a much better shot when younger but still enjoy it quite a bit.
Thanks for the info on military shooting.
Best regards, Jeff
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"I addressed individuals with specific types mental illness issues and felons of victimizing/violent crimes buying guns specifically at gun shows. As it currently stands in NC, there are different guidelines for "private individuals" selling guns at a gun show vs. gun dealers.
That's it! "
Jeff,
I think you are misunderstanding my point - and I don't doubt your support of the 2nd amendment. If you are a licensed dealer there must be background checks, in the shop or at the show. If you are an average joe selling a gun or guns from your collection they are not required, at home or at the show. You are suggesting background checks for everyone because of the reasons you state (mental, criminal, etc.). I am saying I don't want my daughter to go through that just so the government will ALLOW me give her grandpa's gun - that is ridiculous. The government does not need to know who has what, when. I should not need permission to sell my neighbor or even a stranger a gun, as that is my private property. There are laws on the books preventing criminals from possessing guns. Just like there are laws on the books preventing drunk drivers from driving or a drug addicted doctor from practicing. Here is where we part ways... What can stop that guy from grabbing the car keys or the doc from performing surgery or the felon from stealing a gun? More laws? HA! Giving the government leeway in interpreting some arbitrary psych profile? Wow....THAT is the slippery slope I am talking about! At some point we need to take responsibility for calling out the problem child (the drunk with the car keys, the doped out doc, and yes, the whack job with the gun), or we will give it all away. There is not a law in the world that will prevent those problems. The only thing you are doing is making it harder for the law abiding and giving the government more control. No thanks.
I think Yosemite Sam spent most of his time shooting into the air! I know you can get closer to the target than that! Speaking of avatars, I suppose you want Ritchie to register his Strat because he was swinging it as a weapon. And he DID blow up a few amps and cabinets in his time - that's considered being in possession of a Destructive Device and I'm pretty sure he didn't have the proper paperwork. You know I am just messin' with ya now! :wink: Although Tele registration and confiscation does sound like a plausible solution to protect the innocent.
THe next time you make it to St. Louis your not going to call me, are you.... :occasion14:
Jim :m8
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I don't think it's all that difficult to weed out convicted felons and mentally unstable people.
If you have been hauled away for murdering dogs and cats, beating your wife, or addicted to crack or meth, you are mentally unstable in my book
That sort of thing just needs to be sorted out so there are some rules on who should be able to purchase a gun
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Jeff,
The VFW Hall or my basement, that's just geography?
To quote JRR Tolkien, I will diminish and go into the west, and remain a Ritchie fan!
Oh man, Shiner Bock?!?!?!.... :sad:
Jim
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This is one of those topics where I really can see both sides. On one hand, I fully understand the emotions that run rampant after a mass shooting. And I think it's criminally negligent to have guns in the house when you have a mentally disturbed person living there (Sandyhook). OTOH, life itself is a risk. A thousand people die every day because of smoking, alcohol abuse, distracted drivers, and pure bad luck.
I get exactly where Tubenit is coming from, as I've been in gun shops and felt that a couple of the guys there weren't exactly, uh, top shelf. :icon_biggrin: There will always be irresponsible gun owners and sellers, just like there are irresponsible dog owners, drivers, and drinkers.
Here in Maryland, O'Malley is jumping all over the Sandyhook thing to push the gun control agenda, and that's what I find disgusting. Pols from both parties use tragedies to ram their agenda down our throats. (and yes, I also heartily disagreed with the Patriot Act when it was passed)
So far, there have been no calls to get those pressure cooker bombs off the streets.
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And fertilizer
Need to get rid of that cause you can make bombs and kill people
These gun control idiots all believe that it's the thing that's killing people, not the people
You can dream up a million ways to mass murder with all kinds of items
Need to just dispose of everything just in case someone figures out how to kill people with it
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I understand. We want to keep the bad stuff away from the bad people. If someone came to me with statistics that said XX% of murders were committed with a gun bought at a gun show, I'd say we need to do something - but that percentage better be pretty darn high. I GUARANTEE you that if the gun control nuts could even PLANT some evidence to support that they would. Plus only 2.7% of all murders are committed with a rifle. There is nothing to support the proposed laws. It is just another rights grab by the left.
Ok, I promise, I'm done.... Sorry to anyone that I may have offended. The constitution and our rights is sort of a hot spot with me. :dontknow:
Jim
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You two aren't so different--if Richie had a Strat in his left hand, he would look kinda like Yosemite Sam... :icon_biggrin:
FWIW, while there is still a second amendment, I will own a gun. If they manage to do away with it, I will still own a gun.
Regards
dennis
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A very simply but may be effective DIY accessory :icon_biggrin:
http://matthewcanning.net/2010/12/anneal-before-me-and-pray/ (http://matthewcanning.net/2010/12/anneal-before-me-and-pray/)
K
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A very simply but may be effective DIY accessory :icon_biggrin:
http://matthewcanning.net/2010/12/anneal-before-me-and-pray/ (http://matthewcanning.net/2010/12/anneal-before-me-and-pray/)
K
Love the pun on Anneal before me!!! :l2:
This set-up is very clever & seems effective. But, an awful lot of time & attention gets devoted to each individual case. One solution is cases in a line, or on a revolving wheel, like a record player. Each neck gets heated, then the case gets dropped or knocked-off into a pot of water. Clever automated DIY solutions can be seen on youtube. Temperature is not hyper-critical, so the case neck gets heated to a dull red glow in a darkened room (so the dull glow is visible).
I have not yet felt the need to anneal case necks. But if supply remains low it may become more prevalent.
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I don't think it's all that difficult to weed out convicted felons and mentally unstable people.
If you have been hauled away for murdering dogs and cats, beating your wife, or addicted to crack or meth, you are mentally unstable in my book
That sort of thing just needs to be sorted out so there are some rules on who should be able to purchase a gun
The devil is in the details. A criminal conviction in the public record is the easy part; and there's already background checks for that (for dealers). But your language, as stated, would further apply to a arrests or even to mere accusations. That quickly gets more problematical. All an anti-gun person would need to do is accuse you of something; then you can't own a firearm.
As to the mentally unstable, confinement to a mental institution would be an easy objective screening test. But that rarely happens anymore. Disturbed people often are treated privately & medical records are secret. Should regular doctors in private practice be required to serve as agents of the state to deprive people, in advance of their having done anything wrong, of their civil rights?
Unfortunately, it's easy to say that disturbed people should not have firearms, but hard to put into practice. If it were easy to do, like a felony conviction, it probably would have been done already.
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I honestly was a little creeped out by quite a few of the people that I saw there [gun show].
Honestly, that's why there' a Bill of Rights to the Constitution. Like freedom of speech, and the right to public assembly (which also take place at gun shows), the right to keep and bear arms belongs to each individual (Heller decision). The Constitution makes no exception for creepy people. Rights are universally guaranteed precisely because some people will be singled out. If anyone is to be deprived of their rights, it must be for good cause shown; and not because someone else doesn't like the way it feels.
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Went to a gun show today. Couple of observations .....................
3) I strongly dislike government intrusion in my life. Having said that, I think it would be a least worst choice to have some
mechanism for back ground checks at these gun shows.
There were some individuals there whom I would NOT want to have some of the guns they were walking around with.
5) but my gut level reaction was that
there were some dangerous people there (not just in their ability but in their thinking also).
In fact, I would be somewhat shocked if there were not drug dealers, criminals and mentally unstable individuals there. And I could be
wrong, but my intuition says different.
With respect, Tubenit
"I am not saying that the "creepy" people shouldn't have guns. Never said that."
If this is what you meant, I think your words in the "Gun Show" post say otherwise. That first post is what caused me to respond. And I think that is what jjasilli is saying too. You have to admit there is a certain dichotomy to your statements!
My big question is from your statement in #3. Why should there be choice anyway? Why? Why do we HAVE to do something? Show me stats to back up anything we would HAVE to do.
As far as the mental health "thing". I will go back to my original statement. Would you violate hipaa laws to report someone? How many personal rights would you ignore to achieve this end? Again, I can go to any doctor or lawyer and be declared mentally unfit for work and can collect SS until the cows come home - even though I am more than able. We all know its a game. A game that can very EASILY be turned around against me by some healthcare "professional" or administration with an agenda. Letting the government determine some arbitrary level of mental health is absolutely ludicrous! I'd be willing to bet that I could get a dozen shrinks on one side claiming simple antisocial behavior for a case and yet another dozen thoroughly convinced that it is a dangerous psychosis.
And I am not dissing your profession or opinion - I have great respect for what you do. However, my wife has worked in healthcare her entire adult life - I have a VERY good reference for government hypocrisy when it comes to healthcare. To allow that to somehow influence my 2nd Amendment rights scares me to no end.
Jim
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Jim, I respect your position and arguments also. I enjoy your friendship. We have differing opinions and vantage points of perspective.
You seem to be arguing against positions that are not ones that I hold. For whatever reason that I have communicated or listened ineffectively, I truly apologize. I think we are on very different AM/FM wave lengths and not connecting with what the other is saying at all.
If I have offended someone or presented in a contentious manner, I am sorry. At this juncture, I am going to bow out of this particular discussion.
With respect, Jeff
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I am definitely FM album rock oriented! :m8
I think with your Tele, you are AM pop top 40!
Peace, my friend!
Jim
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Ya know, having conversations with people you never see face to face can lead to all sorts of assumptions like- I wonder what these people are really like (so and so seems like a real A$$), what will they do if this or that happens; If I were in a room talking with these people would we get along. Without a doubt now I believe I know.
WE'D GET ALONG FAMOUSLY!!!!!!!
I was looking for a place to post some homemade triode information when I stumbled upon this room. Yahoo Cowboys!
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OK, HotBluePlates was in town and we went shooting. It was a VERY humbling day for me. :sad2: :l2:
This is HBP's grouping with my pistol (which he was unfamiliar with) at maybe 21-22'
In comparison, I had one of the worst days of shooting and grouping shots. Let's just say that in comparison, my groupings were closer
to the size of a large Frisbee.
:icon_biggrin:
HBP consistently was grouping shots within maybe a 2" circle.
Fun shooting and hanging out with him!
With respect, Tubenit
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That target is dead!!!
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If a sheet of paper tries to rob me, it's in for a surprise. :l2:
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Nice shooting!
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Well, I think I am getting a little more comfortable with my FNX-9. I can now pretty consistently shoot 4 out of 5 shots within a grouping the size of my palm or smaller at 21 ft. Not where I want to be obviously, but the groupings seem to be somewhat more consistent.
I'm starting to like the gun really well. Also had a chance to shoot a Sig Sauer 9mm recently. Nice gun. And I shot a .380 for the first time. I like that round. Not much recoil to it. I will say that I still prefer a revolver. My ideal gun would be a Smith & Wesson 686 9mm but they don't make one (as far as I know).
Saw this video. Pretty amazing shooting, IMO. 27 shots on target in under 4 seconds. Wow!
27 rounds in 3.7 seconds with a 1911 pistol with World Record shooter, Jerry Miculek (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uFoM8S3JwZU#ws)
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Well, I think I am getting a little more comfortable with my FNX-9. I can now pretty consistently shoot 4 out of 5 shots within a grouping the size of my palm or smaller at 21 ft. Not where I want to be obviously, but the groupings seem to be somewhat more consistent.
I have an FNX-9 too. I got it back in February during the post-Newtown frenzy. I've had a lot of success with it. The only time I had any feeding problems were with poor reloaded rounds that I kinda had no choice to use for practice.
I'm new to this sport, but it makes me look accurate. I get about the same groupings that you do at 21yds indoors. I've also done a Steel Challenge with it, which went really well. The FNX did not malfunction at all during that tournament.
In fact, my first year of gun ownership has had me doing sporting clays, skeet, the steel challenge and just this weekend I went deer hunting with a 30-06. All good fun.
Also had a chance to shoot a Sig Sauer 9mm recently. Nice gun.
I got to shoot a Sig P226 in the summer. That was one beautiful gun. I love a hefty fullsize handgun. Ridiculously accurate.
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You know I like you guys more and more all the time I love shooting, I own few myself. My wife for Christmas wants one of here own. Im trying to make my mind up which fits her hand the best. Off to cabelas tomorrow, to try a few to see what she thinks. I sometimes wonder how I married so well (LOL). Well that can be good news and bad news I can honestly say I wont ever fool around on her She's to good a shot <G> :help:
Bill
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Bill,
I think this Walther PPK .380 is a really nice gun. And the .380 has less kick than the 9mm. My understanding is the .380 is the most widely used caliber for law enforcement internationally.
http://www.hyattgunstore.com/walther-pk380-.380-acp-pistol-blue-finish-3.66-barrel.html (http://www.hyattgunstore.com/walther-pk380-.380-acp-pistol-blue-finish-3.66-barrel.html)
Having said that, make sure you wife can pull back the slide to load the first shell. Some women are better off with revolvers for that reason.
With respect, Jeff
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Bond.....Jeff Bond... :undecided:
Jim
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Oh sorry, its just the PK, not the PPK. Sorry Jeff, looks like you are still a red shirt rookie - watch your back!
Jim
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best purse pistol overall for a woman is a S&W hammerless revolver in 38 spcl.
http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Product4_750001_750051_764936_-1_757768_757767_757751_ProductDisplayErrorView_Y (http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Product4_750001_750051_764936_-1_757768_757767_757751_ProductDisplayErrorView_Y)
--pete
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A very nice collection of video here
http://www.midwayusa.com/General.mvc/Index/VideoLibrary?&VideoID=0_d5h9qv0k&Category=gunsmithing&cm_mmc=sm_youtube-_-video_content-_-youtube_video_description-_-0_d5h9qv0k (http://www.midwayusa.com/General.mvc/Index/VideoLibrary?&VideoID=0_d5h9qv0k&Category=gunsmithing&cm_mmc=sm_youtube-_-video_content-_-youtube_video_description-_-0_d5h9qv0k)
K
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I'm sticking with my own handmade wooden bows. Though antique guns have a strong aesthetic appeal.
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My favorites are the old guns
one I would like to have is this :grin:
(http://www.conjay.com/Uberti%20Sharps%20002.jpg)
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But there are also video about "new" one as AR-15
see page 21 - 19 - 24 and others
K
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Nice rifle
Holland and Holland .700 double rifle at the CLA (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4cbENXPBix8#ws)
K
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I think I'm headed this direction. I am still somewhat partial to a revolver.
http://www.ruger.com/products/gp100/specSheets/1707.html (http://www.ruger.com/products/gp100/specSheets/1707.html)
IF money were absolutely NO object at all, then I'd love to have this Smith & Wesson:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0FbUMqoyjDw (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0FbUMqoyjDw)
Jeff
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I've been saying for some time now that I believe I am a better shot with a revolver then a semi-auto pistol.
Had a chance to find out for sure today. I normally shoot a 9mm at around 21 feet (7 yards) at a pistol range and typically can put 4 out of 5 shots within an area the size of my palm. I am reasonably consistent with that.
Shot a Ruger GP100 .357 (6") today with .38 shells and could hit Doug's target 5 out of 6 times at 69 feet. (I wasn't anywhere near that good with the semi-auto 9mm & was averaging hitting the target only 4 out of 10 shots). With the Ruger revolver, I was able to hit a 12" wood circle at 100+ feet two out of 6 times & came close the other 4 shots. I just bought this revolver and love it! I am already shooting better with it new then the 9mm after 5 or 6 times shooting with the 9mm semi-auto.
I also shot some reasonably hot .357 loads also thru the Ruger revolver. That was fun, but I was somewhat more accurate with the .38 shells.
Also had the privilege of shooting a Smith & Wesson .357 revolver model 686. It was a nice revolver too & similar accuracy to Ruger. (Ruger was very similar in appearance but heavier with a heavier frame.) The Ruger single action trigger pull was very comparable if not better then the S&W, IMO. The revolver cylinder action was a little stiffer but it's a brand new pistol.
And then I shot a .44 Magnum Smith and Wesson with fairly hot factory loads at 69 feet. 5 shots with all hitting the target and about an inch off the bulls eye at 69 feet. The gun had a standard wooden grip and certainly had some recoil to it. The owner had the trigger pull reduced down to a very light feather weight pull. I did not care for that but it actually seemed to perhaps help my accuracy? I was more accurate with the .44 mag then the .38 special or .357 mag.
The thing I liked the most about the Ruger GP100 with .38 shells (120 grain) was there was VERY little recoil to the pistol. I have shot a friend's .32 Smith and Wesson WWII military issue and I thought the .38 in the Ruger and the .32 S&W were pretty comparable.
IF the .44 mag was a "9.4" on a scale of 1-10 recoil scale. The hot .357 load was maybe an 8. The 9mm semi-auto is maybe a 6.5-7. The .380 semi-auto I shot recently was maybe a 5-6. The .38 was maybe a "4-5". The .32 maybe a 3-4. And a .22 maybe a 1-2.
I think I would've liked the .44 mag more IF the rubber finger contoured grips had been left on the gun, but the owner had put a fancy walnut grip on it that was very standard in shape with no finger contours at all.
It was really a very very fun afternoon of shooting and all outdoors.
With respect, Jeff
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Sounds like fun
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Jeff,
Barrel length has so much to do with it. I've got a Springfield XDM 5.25 (5.25" barrel length) and I can shoot lights out against any wheel gun of equal barrel length, at any distance. Longer barrel = longer sight radius = better accuracy (if you have decent gun). You figure the usual semi barrel length is around 3-4". That is a long way from that 6" Ruger you got. I had a 10.5" .44mag Super Blackhawk. My brother had a 6". I was hitting targets out at 100yrds with iron sights and my brother was digging dirt all around - and he is a heck of a shot.
You can pick up some really nice used S&W L and K frames for cheap these days - and that was about the best they ever built. Lots of cops owed their lives to them.
Jim
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I haven't been reading all the posts, as long work hours dictate short visits. I'm winding down on the long hours, hopefully in a few days.
I try to check this post, as I grew up shooting a variety of weapons, though squirrel hunting was my main interest. But, I'm curious. There seems to be more pistol shooters than not. How many of you reload your spent ammo? It used to be the absolute cheapest way to enjoy a pistol. Now, it's only a bit cheaper, but still very convenient to have loaded ammo on hand when you do want to shoot.
I learned from CC class, awhile back, that you should consider having only factory ammo in your personal defense weapons. You can do everything right, but a lawyer can use reloads as an excuse to put you in jail. Under the guise of 'modified ammunition', meaning that you have done something different to the ammo (from that of factory loads) to make 'killing' a more pleasurable experience for you. I don't remember all the details of the example given in the class. But in a nutshell, an individual did everything right to protect his life. And, spent six months in jail, until the NRA law team got him out.
Wish that I could remember more, but it was enough for me to keep mine loaded with factory, and plink with my reloads.
Anyway, back to reloading. It was always my cold weather, rainy day time to have something shooting-related to do, when I couldn't shoot or squirrel hunt because of weather. It's also a good excuse to go to gun shows, when you're not looking to buy a gun. I get my powder and my primers from gun shows. Occasionally, I buy brass in bulk, if I've finally expended the life of a particular caliber that I'm shooting. Plus, I get to look at the antique guns that show up, from time to time.
Jack
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My brother has been an avid deer hunter all his life. He's been using this Thompson exclusively for about 8 years now.
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Ecco la prima pistola in 3D tutta in metallo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vNaXnwfoTws#ws)
(http://www.diyitalia.eu/forum/images/smilies/21.gif) (http://www.diyitalia.eu/forum/images/smilies/21.gif) (http://www.diyitalia.eu/forum/images/smilies/21.gif)
K
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I had to look this up to see exactly what it is:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Direct_metal_laser_sintering (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Direct_metal_laser_sintering)
Thanks for sharing it! I don't know how I'd feel about firing a 1,000 rounds thru it? But it is remarkable technology.
with respect, Jeff
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s9IdZ2pI5dA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s9IdZ2pI5dA)
K
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That is a cool video
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Went shooting again today and took my wife. Great fun! My wife is an excellent shot and it was the first time she shot my .357 Ruger using .38 bullets. She expressed the recoil was not an issue for her at all. She ended up liking my nephew's .357 with .38 bullets slightly more as it is a Smith & Wesson and she thought it was smoother & it had a beautiful rosewood custom grip.
I previously had shot my nephew's .44 magnum and liked it (although he had the trigger pull reduced to a hair trigger).
Today, I got to shoot some .44 specials. This is a lighter load. I really like it ALOT! His S&W has an 8.5" barrel and it's sort of a heavy revolver. I thought the recoil was very manageable and it's just a very very accurate revolver. While my shooting was not as consistent as I am wanting, I actually had several truly dead in the middle bull's eyes today at around 32' shooting outdoors.
Got to shoot .22, .38, 9mm, .44 and .22 Jet (which is a .357 shell jacketed to a .22 bullet). Loudest gun ....................... easily the .22 Jet which shoots a flame out the barrel about 15" even in broad daylight. The .22 Jet goes BOOM and sounds like a cannon, everything else was a subtle pow to a loud bang.
Thanks again to Doug for sharing his "targets". I printed off a dozen of them for shooting today and even using masking tape over holes, I ended up using 11 of the targets.
With respect, Jeff
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Nice
I have a new one on the way
A Ruger LCP
Very tiny/compact for conceal carry
http://www.ruger.com/products/lcp/models.html (http://www.ruger.com/products/lcp/models.html)
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Cool! I like it. Have you fired a .380 before? That's one of the more pleasurable calibers to shoot, IMO. My understanding is the .380 is more widely used internationally by police then any other caliber. It's really just a short 9mm (kinda).
I wished they made more mid/large sized pistols with .380 caliber. The Walther also is a good .380 from what I can tell? And it looks like you can get the 3rd finger on the pistol grip if I am looking at this right.
http://www.hyattgunstore.com/walther-pk380-laser-380-acp-pistol.html (http://www.hyattgunstore.com/walther-pk380-laser-380-acp-pistol.html)
My bro-in-law carries a .380 and it shoots very nice, IMO.
Ruger makes some good stuff, I think.
Are you still shooting with some frequency like every month or two (or more?).
With respect, Jeff
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No, have not shot in a long time
Hope to do it again soon
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My wife's shooting with the .38 at around 32' outdoors. 5 of the 6 shots are grouped within a space the size of just my palm. The gun was not set on anything to stabilize. Just straight forward stand up shooting.
:icon_biggrin: :icon_biggrin: :thumbsup:
Jeff
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Nice
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Cool! I like it. Have you fired a .380 before? That's one of the more pleasurable calibers to shoot, IMO. My understanding is the .380 is more widely used internationally by police then any other caliber. It's really just a short 9mm (kinda).
I wished they made more mid/large sized pistols with .380 caliber. The Walther also is a good .380 from what I can tell? And it looks like you can get the 3rd finger on the pistol grip if I am looking at this right.
I really love my Beretta Cheetah Model 84 .380
http://www.beretta.com/en/serie-80/ (http://www.beretta.com/en/serie-80/)
I picked it up at a gun show from a police officer who had used it as his backup and was moving to a more compact model.
Nowhere near as carryable as I would like,,,but I really don't carry anymore anyway, (and when I do it's a KelTec .32)
SUPER smooth firing with almost no recoil, and very comfortable in my hand....hardly moves off of the target at all
I got a bunch of 13 round mags for it and just take it to the range a couple times a year....everyone I have ever let shoot it has wanted to buy it.
I had also tried a very nice Sig P232 .380 just before I bought this one and it was a toss up.
http://www.sigsauer.com/CatalogProductDetails/p232-stainless.aspx (http://www.sigsauer.com/CatalogProductDetails/p232-stainless.aspx)
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My wife's shooting with the .38 at around 32' outdoors. 5 of the 6 shots are grouped within a space the size of just my palm. The gun was not set on anything to stabilize. Just straight forward stand up shooting.
:icon_biggrin: :icon_biggrin: :thumbsup:
Jeff
ok, so don't piss off the wife. if you do, hide the ammo... ;-)
--pete
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The military can't use hollow points because of the Law of Armed Conflict. Seems when you're trying to kill your enemy, you don't want to cause undue suffering. Of course, you can keep lobbing grenades at him...
You could not use a 50 cal Machine at the enemy, but you can use it on the enemy's equipment. "I'm sooooooooooo sorry, I was trying to hit his canteen". I guess I missed a tad. :l2:
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I switched pistols and decided to get a Diamond Back DB380 instead of the Ruger LCP
Check out this short lived deal $219 with free shipping
http://www.centerfiresystems.com/hg0023.aspx?utm_source=streamsend&utm_medium=email&utm_content=22149531&utm_campaign=Flash%20Deal%20-%20Diamondback%20.380%20with%20Free%20Delivery (http://www.centerfiresystems.com/hg0023.aspx?utm_source=streamsend&utm_medium=email&utm_content=22149531&utm_campaign=Flash%20Deal%20-%20Diamondback%20.380%20with%20Free%20Delivery)!
Here's s review and a bunch of pics
http://www.gunblast.com/Diamondback380.htm (http://www.gunblast.com/Diamondback380.htm)
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This is a deal
Anyone interested in this had better act fast
$219.99 with free shipping
http://www.centerfiresystems.com/hg0023.aspx?utm_source=streamsend&utm_medium=email&utm_content=22149531&utm_campaign=Flash%20Deal%20-%20Diamondback%20.380%20with%20Free%20Delivery (http://www.centerfiresystems.com/hg0023.aspx?utm_source=streamsend&utm_medium=email&utm_content=22149531&utm_campaign=Flash%20Deal%20-%20Diamondback%20.380%20with%20Free%20Delivery)!
(http://www.centerfiresystems.com/images/products/detail/HG0023RIGHT.jpg)
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WOW, I've been following the wrong threads on this site! in the '90s my farm was well used for all things guns n explosions, 1.5miles of woods to the next neighbor! Had a machinist/ reloader drill out some 30-30 rounds for me so we could stick some mercury in and see the results... they were impressive. the best homebrew was a "tennis ball" canon that used compressed LP and shot 2" trailer hitch balls... through everything!!!
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I tried printing off different colors of Doug's target for an indoor range. I liked the florescent yellow best. I did not care for the orange but I think it would be good outdoors?
The all "black" target (with red dot) printed on yellow florescent paper is very nice. The white paper with the red middle and yellow area using a color printer is also very nice. I will try pink and florescent chartreuse next time and report back.
I am not progressing very much but am making small progress. With the semi-auto, I am grouping shots around the bulls eye well enough to usually have 4 out of 5 somewhat rapid shots (like 1 per second) within the palm of my hand now at 25-26 feet (vs. the 21' I was shooting). I seem to always have one "stray" and it's usually not the first shot ironically.
I wear bifocals and really need to get a gradual lens glasses. Either the sight or the target is always slightly out of focus/blurred.
Jeff
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That's a good idea, I think I will add the yellow to mine
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My new Conceal carry pistol
Diamondback DB380
It looks almost like my Glocks
This thing is under 12 ounces with 6 bullets in the mag
It's very tiny and it shoots really nice
Need to get some critical defense rounds
All I have right now is regular PMC rounds that I shot for target practice
I have my conceal carry permit now and so I got something a bit smaller
It's way easier to conceal than my glock 26
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I have been in Floridah most of my life. I have been across the country and seen beautiful places like the Grand Canyon,Greenville NC, etc,etc.
I am sick of Floridah and want to get the He** out of here so bad. But it's like when your a Salmon you always swim back to where you were spawned so to speak. If i leave it will be for good. I want to gracefully leave this earth in GOD's country surrounded by good people,wild animals on four leg's unlike this transient drug infested State that has turned into nothing more than a giant dick sticking out in the water. Sorry for the rant but living here isn't for me anymore. Gun laws here and else where are leaving people with little protection. They want you to call the police so they can just make matters worse. I miss the huge camp fires and guitar playing with good people all having a good time without the intervention of the local machine. I cant own a gun because i stole the school bus back in 1973 from the high school i was going to. I wrote the govenor of Floridah (Lawton Chiles) back in the 80's for a pardon. He died before getting my certified letter explaining that what i did was a childish thing as a youngster and that i felt we all should have the right to be able to protect my family and that i had never been a violent person or committed any kind of violent crime. I think it is unlawful for a persons right to bare arms and have the ability to protect their family be stripped away for life because of a stupid juvinille act. They wait 3 months before bringing me to trial at which time i turned 18. BINGO FELONY! Aint life sweet?
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Doug,
Glad to know that worked out OK for you & especially glad to hear that it shoots well. It is a really nice looking pistol. Nice size too.
I shot my bro-in-law's .380 and liked it a lot! IF I am remembering correctly, I think the .380 is the most widely used ammo by law enforcement in the world. I think it's essentially the same caliber as the 9mm but with less gunpowder?
IF you think of it, somewhere down the line, I'd love to see a grouping of shots on your target at around 21' for a reference point of accuracy. Are you shooting almost as accurately with this as your Glock?
Thanks for sharing it! Best regards, Jeff
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.380ACP is also actually a 9mm x 17mm, also was called 9mm short, 9mm kurtz, (kurtz is german word for short), etc. the 9mm x 19mm parabellum round is what we use in the M-9, Glock 19, etc, etc.
.380ACP was designed by John Browning. joerge luger developed the 9mm x 19mm parabellum.
.380ACP is slightly lower velocity round than 9x19. 9x17 is used extensively in EU by law enforcement, however, the 9x19 is the most widely used cartridge in the world by both military and LE.
--pete
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Doug,
Glad to know that worked out OK for you & especially glad to hear that it shoots well. It is a really nice looking pistol. Nice size too.
I shot my bro-in-law's .380 and liked it a lot! IF I am remembering correctly, I think the .380 is the most widely used ammo by law enforcement in the world. I think it's essentially the same caliber as the 9mm but with less gunpowder?
IF you think of it, somewhere down the line, I'd love to see a grouping of shots on your target at around 21' for a reference point of accuracy. Are you shooting almost as accurately with this as your Glock?
Thanks for sharing it! Best regards, Jeff
I've only shot it a few times, mostly just to see how it felt
I did not save any targets because I also fired a few other guns at the same targets
I usually circle the holes in a red sharpie so I know which ones are new
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Plexi50: Maybe try the following:
1. Retry your pardon application with a Republican governor. Note: 1) Gov. Chiles was a Democrat; and 2. Anti-gun sentiment was on the rise in the '80's, not so much now; or
2. Make a motion to the court for "relief from civil disabilities". A felony conviction deprives a person from having various licenses; but after a period of time of good behavior it becomes possible to get around that.
3. It might be too late, but try to quash or downgrade the conviction. The critical date is the date of the incident when you were still a minor, not the date of the trial.
The law sets forth specific criteria that the governor, or the court, should consider when such requests are made. You should retain experienced legal counsel to make sure that the best possible application is submitted. I suggest that an applicant should not try to do these things himself, and is not likely to succeed on his own.
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Got to fire this little BB gun yesterday. It was all dressed up with a huge Night Force scope and the Barrett computer. The first shot was wasted because I had to rack it in (my excuse! :icon_biggrin:), but I was able to hit a 3ft circle at 1200 yrds with the next two - I used ALL of it! :laugh: There was a little cross wind so I was guessing at the hold over. Recoil was more of the brisk shove than a whack. I've shot a bolt .50 and that was not fun. The semi action and the great muzzle brake really tames the beast. I wish I would have had more time with it because he showed me some VERY impressive groups at that distance. Great toy but way outta my $$$$$ league for that brand name hardware. I'm more of a Savage/Bushnell licked finger in the air kind of guy!
Jim
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Just as a point of reference, the 50 cal shooters association record for a five shot group at 1000yrds is 1.955" :huh:
Jim
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Plexi50: Maybe try the following:
1. Retry your pardon application with a Republican governor. Note: 1) Gov. Chiles was a Democrat; and 2. Anti-gun sentiment was on the rise in the '80's, not so much now; or
2. Make a motion to the court for "relief from civil disabilities". A felony conviction deprives a person from having various licenses; but after a period of time of good behavior it becomes possible to get around that.
3. It might be too late, but try to quash or downgrade the conviction. The critical date is the date of the incident when you were still a minor, not the date of the trial.
The law sets forth specific criteria that the governor, or the court, should consider when such requests are made. You should retain experienced legal counsel to make sure that the best possible application is submitted. I suggest that an applicant should not try to do these things himself, and is not likely to succeed on his own.
Great advice there jjasilli. I have very good attorney's in Tampa. But at this time in my life i have made it this far without any kind of any serial run in's. Few bears here. I wish i could say i had more faith in the judicial system. This is a republican state all the way/
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Ritchie I would like to know what would have been able to do with that toy Simo Häyhä
Franco
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My first gun that was not a toy was a Daisy Target Special I received from my Dad for Christmas in 1962. I still have it although it was confiscated by the police when I was 13 after my friends and I were arrested for "threatening students" on the WMU campus while we hunted frogs and snakes in the swamp near Goldsworth Valley apartments that summer. Coming home in a police car lead to one of the worst beatings I ever received but I did get the BB gun back the next year. That gun also was the one and only weapon I was ever shot with when a neighbor girl talked me into letting her carry it. She shot me in the ass by "accident". My Dad taught me about firearms early and I learned to shoot with his Browning 12 gauge, Remington .35 rifle and .22 semi auto. I also had time with his Ruger .44, .41, Colt .45 and German Luger. For my 18th birthday he gave me a Remington 1100 12 gauge. I used it for birds, rabbits and with slugs to hunt deer. When I was 26 I sold it to buy supplies for my young son when I was between jobs, along with my golf clubs and three classic guitars. I have never needed anything but a shotgun (I have two 12 gauge) and a .22 (I have a classic bolt action Winchester from the 1930s). My sons learned to shoot from me and I did once briefly own a Smith & Wesson .44 but I sold it for twice what I paid after going through a few boxes of ammo. I still shoot varmints, mostly squirrels terrorizing our bird feeders and I am a good shot. My wife doesn't shoot but she does know how to load either 12 gauge and if anyone does threaten us at home we feel confident that we could acquit ourselves well. Jim
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Ritchie I would like to know what would have been able to do with that toy Simo Häyhä
Franco
Simo would have been even more deadly, and he would have been able to do it from a lot farther away. Although there are still die-hard fans of the Mosin–Nagant today who swear by it's accuracy. I think for the most part, the .338 Lapua Mag has taken the lead in sniper operations these days. The 50 is used more for wall and vehicle busting. They have developed all sorts of incendiary and frag rounds for the 50.
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I was able to hit a 3ft circle at 1200 yrds with the next two
1200 yards! That is quite impressive. :thumbsup:
My nephew in this area has a 50 cal rifle that looks somewhat similar to that.
Thanks for sharing that experience! Jeff
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Got to fire this little BB gun yesterday.
Believe it or not, I've been to an indoor range where you could fire that rifle. :huh:
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Jeff, yes I was fortunate that this guy was nice enough to give me about $12 in reloads to play. This was on private land - about 145 acres. Basically shooting into an old quarry as the backstop.
HBP, Wow, I had plugs and muffs and it was still not quite comfy (it still has a ways to go to beat the Major! :icon_biggrin: ). I tell people its like sitting at the starting line when a top fuel dragster takes off, X 10, all at once. Better behind the gun, but indoors? Wow! What did they use for a backstop? What distance? Where was this?
Jim
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What did they use for a backstop? What distance? Where was this?
This was at Camp Allen, a tiny Marine installation next to Norfolk Naval Base.
It was like any indoor handgun range: ~30m long, with angled steel plate which ricochets the round into a cylindrical space above to expend its energy. One of the guys working there told us the backstop was rated up to .50 cal @ 3200 ft/sec, and had his Barrett .50 propped up in a corner.
Overall, just like any other indoor handgun range, except the target carriers were extremely oversized to allow accidental strikes from rifle rounds. There were often guys in there shooting M-14's, AK-47's, M-16's, etc.
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Got to shoot my Roni/Glock 17
It's really smooth and you don't feel any kick
I only got to fire off less than 10 rounds
Hope to get to take it out and get more rounds off
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So, was it more accurate then simply shooting the Glock as a pistol?
With respect, Tubenit
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Oh yeah, way more at fast firing accuracy.
The stock is buried into your shoulder and you are sighting down the top like a rifle
No difference taking your time and squeezing off one round
Pop off several of them and the gun stays on target way better with the Roni enclosure
It's just a fun gadget
since I have 3 pistols I decided to do this with the Glock 17
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That does sound like fun!
Thanks for the review! Jeff
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Do you think this 1911 can have a real practical use ?
it worth the pain ?
http://http://www.slickguns.com/product/arsenal-double-barrel-1911-45-tba (http://http://www.slickguns.com/product/arsenal-double-barrel-1911-45-tba)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=BM-DGaNmtA0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=BM-DGaNmtA0)
K
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these are cool. the 30-06 is affordable. street price is around 1700.00 when you can find them.
http://onlylongrange.com/bn36-long-range-assassin-30-06/ (http://onlylongrange.com/bn36-long-range-assassin-30-06/)
http://onlylongrange.com/bad-news-338-lapua-magnum/ (http://onlylongrange.com/bad-news-338-lapua-magnum/)
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Franco,
The best use of dual 1911's has to be in the movie Hitman from 2007 with Timothy Olyphant and Olga Kurylenko (:notworthy:).
If you have not seen it, it is an awesome movie. Lots of unbelievable fights, but the twist in the plot is great! A good popcorn and beer movie!
Jim
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Thanks
I'll give it a look
Ciao
Franco
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What do you think about 17 HMR vs 22LR for rifle target use ?
Franco
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for target shooting, almost always choose the faster, flatter shooting round. 17HMR is much LOUDER than 22LR. it does generate more chamber pressure, so barrel life expectancy will be shorter than that of 22LR. how much shorter is dependent on barrel construction; e.g. metallurgy.
--pete
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But .22 LR is way cheaper, so you practice more. ;)
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Thanks
I've read that 22LR can be used for target shots till 100mt and 17 hmr till 200mt
is that right ?
Franco
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Thanks
I've read that 22LR can be used for target shots till 100mt and 17 hmr till 200mt
is that right ?
Franco
use the .17HMR for 200m shooting. to get comparable accuracy with 22LR, we have to buy 22LR match ammo ammo that costs as much as 17HMR that can shoot 1/2MOA at 100yds. eley match, lapua midas, etc., are 22LR capable of 1/2MOA at 100yds.
--pete
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Thanks Pete
Lapua will be my choice :grin:
Franco
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Lots of literature on the web. The .17 is fine cartridge, makes the .22 look almost like a toy: https://www.google.com/search?q=17+HMR&rlz=1C1RNBN_enUS433US433&es_sm=122&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ved=0CC8QsARqFQoTCLH4nqjUoccCFcQlHgodI5sMHA&biw=1280&bih=601#imgrc=RKbGeNEArB3-wM%3A (https://www.google.com/search?q=17+HMR&rlz=1C1RNBN_enUS433US433&es_sm=122&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ved=0CC8QsARqFQoTCLH4nqjUoccCFcQlHgodI5sMHA&biw=1280&bih=601#imgrc=RKbGeNEArB3-wM%3A)
However, looks aside, the .22LR is a Great cartridge. Inexpensive & accurate. And, the soft report and little kickback is great for working on anti-flinching during the shot sequence. If I could only have one, I'd get the .22.
At the range my son's Marlin .22 semi-auto rifle shot accurately out to 100yds. But at 200 yds., hard to get a 12" group. This conforms the general scuttlebutt. The problem is that when the .22LR bullet, at distance, breaks the sound barrier while slowing down, its trajectory becomes erratic. The target shooter's solution is to use subsonic rounds to begin with. However, this results in a huge rainbow trajectory at distance; and subsonic rounds may fail to cycle a semi-auto action.
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Thanks Pete
Lapua will be my choice :grin:
Franco
That's a good choice, BUT you should try different brands to see what shoots best in your particular rifle. It varies tremendously. One big factor is headspace. In a rimfire round this is the thickness of the case's rim, relative to the space left for it, in the Chamber at the rear of the barrel. Ea different rifle prefers a particular headspace which can be found by measurement, trial and error.
Usually, premium or match grade ammo will be more accurate. It is more consistently manufactured, including consistent rim thickness. However, sometimes a certain brand of discount ammo will shoot very accurately in a particular .22LR rifle.
Also Accuracy may be preferred over Precision for paper target practice. E.g., if a Rifle shoots 4" groups with discount ammo; and the Shooter gets consistent 4" groups, that's shooting with high Accuracy. The rifle/ammo combination is not capable of better Precision. If the Rifle/ammo shoots 4" groups, but the Shooter gets larger groups, then improvement on shooting form is needed to improve the shooter's Accuracy. In other words, it isn't necessary to "waste" premium ammo to know if you're shooting well.
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If you are looking to buy a new rifle, the new .17 Winchester Super Magnum might be worth looking at. Over 3,000 fps at the muzzle and still over 2,000 at 200 yards - that's pretty impressive. The .17HMR is 2,300 at the muzzle and about 1,300 at 200yrds. Wind drift at 10mph at 200 yards is about 7" where the .17HMR is about 18". Most impressive is only about a 3" drop at 200yrds where the 17HMR is about 12" I read a story about a guy who was thumping prairie dogs out to 500yrds. I only hunt paper but that certainly shows it has a lot of energy on tap. I would love to see a semi pistol in this caliber and give the 5.7 a run for the money.
Savage has a new rifle chambered for this and you cant beat the accutrigger for a rock bottom price around $350.00.
Jim
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Regarding high velocity low trajectory calibers ......................
I have a Smith & Wesson .22 Jet. It is a .357 shell jacketed down to a .22 bullet. It has an 8.5" barrel and was meant to shoot prairie dogs and such with a scope. I think I only have maybe 175-200 rounds of the ammo left unfortunately. It's not made anymore but I keep the shells & it's possible to reload them as the reloading tools do exist still.
It is a pretty accurate pistol. And it is so LOUD !!!! Much louder then my 9mm or .38 or .357. Not sure why but it's ridiculously loud and has about an 18" flame shooting out the end of the barrel even in broad daylight.
And .............. it has alloy sleeves that allow regular .22 ammo to be fired and on the hammer there is this pin that you move to change from rim fire to center fire.
Jeff
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Here's one supplier of finished ammo: https://www.buffaloarms.com/22_Remington_Jet_Ammunition%20%20_it-157963.aspx?CAT=4445 (https://www.buffaloarms.com/22_Remington_Jet_Ammunition%20%20_it-157963.aspx?CAT=4445)
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Wow! I did NOT know about that supplier for the ammo! THANKS!
Best regards, Jeff
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It's probably super loud, and has the flame pouring from the muzzle (that does look cool, don't it?) because the powder isn't being completely burned in the barrel. If you took a .223 and shot it from a 10" barrel I bet that same thing would happen.
Of course, I think a .223 is super loud for that matter. I always roll my eyes at the guys that have an AR for a "house gun". I can't even imagine letting one off inside a house, personally. All the sheetrock would crack! :laugh:
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Yes; google: 22 remington jet reloading data Get: https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&rlz=1C1RNBN_enUS433US433&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=22+remington+jet+reloading+data (https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&rlz=1C1RNBN_enUS433US433&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=22+remington+jet+reloading+data)
Scroll down to: pdf Lyman Manual #44 Published 1967 - Castpics (https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=8&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CFMQFjAHahUKEwivnqPB66jHAhUE8IAKHc78DcE&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.castpics.net%2FLoadData%2FOM%2FLyman44.pdf&ei=qgLOVa-hCYTggwTO-beIDA&usg=AFQjCNGgcyW4n3ZbqZpzg-Xb-U5Rlnjzeg&sig2=rh38ukIHGQ2vkFSPrFgZ3g)
Download the pdf (dated 1967!!!) go to Page 111
Depending on the Powder selected, powder charge ranges from about 3 - 13 grains!! 12 or 13 grains is a Lot for a pistol round. The 3 grain loads may produce less flash. Or, maybe use a 26" pistol barrel :wink:
BTW: that S&W jet is a real beauty!
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BTW: that S&W jet is a real beauty!
Yeah, I was just going to post that! Looks like a model 29. Probably balanced real good? Yeah, that's a lot of load for an 8.5" barrel, although it would look good in the movies!
Jim
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Jim
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Wow! I did NOT know about that supplier for the ammo! THANKS!
Best regards, Jeff
reload your own. all you need is a forming die to make 22 jet from 357. plenty of load data for that cartridge and the components are cheaper than the finished ammo.
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/891742/redding-case-forming-die-1-22-remington-jet-from-357-magnum?cm_vc=ProductFinding (http://www.midwayusa.com/product/891742/redding-case-forming-die-1-22-remington-jet-from-357-magnum?cm_vc=ProductFinding)
--pete
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Yesterday I was really surprised
I went to a gunsmith friend for ordering some replacement for my Knobloch
and I have seen some 500 S&W ammonitions
I've never seen a so big caliber for a handgun
(http://www.shootingtimes.com/files/2011/07/STmonster_1103A.jpg)
WOW !
Franco
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My toy arrived :icon_biggrin: :icon_biggrin: :icon_biggrin:
Anschutz Match 1903
(http://i.imgur.com/M31wVDA.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/aPtyWVM.jpg)
K
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Cool :icon_biggrin:
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very nice weapon K. post target pics. :icon_biggrin:
--pete
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:thumbsup:
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That is quite a beautiful rifle! Thanks for sharing the photo.
Jeff
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Thanks to all
post target pics
There are more of 40 years between my other previous shots, this is my second round with this rifle, I must do a lot of practice
However this is
Franco
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That looks to be an amazingly accurate rifle. Very tight groupings. 40 yrs since your last shooting??
IF you are comfortable sharing? ................. how old are you? I was born in 1950.
Jeff
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Ciao Jeff
I in 1953
The rifle is a good one, officially barrels are selected for an accurancy of at least 14.7mm at 50mt
Here the lack is the shooter :smiley:
but I am confident I can improve (I hope :icon_biggrin: )
Franco
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I have an Anschutz .17 HMR and it is deadly accurate. Anschutz is a great piece of iron
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.17 HMR is a very interesting caliber unfortunately here it didn't find application because of legal restrictions
Franco
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Guess I should reply to this thread, I'm an ex army infantryman, I have a Ruger P90DC, Remington .308 BDL, and an AR15, not srue I recall the details, I'm a bit drunk tonight :) After Paris tonight I want to start handloading some .556 rounds...
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out of the blue my wife says; "I think I want a gun", followed by; "I really never liked shooting the pistols"
walla, I know what she's getting for Christmas :icon_biggrin:
Wanted a home defence, easy to use, built for short folks, found this and just couldn't put it down.
It's a Rossi circuit judge, 5shot 410 shotgun revolver that also fires 45 colts rounds, 18.5" barrel, pistol grip stock.
I had to *test* it just to be sure it was safe :icon_biggrin: I ran 10 shells of 4shot at 25yrds into a paper plate and 90% of the shot wound up on the plate! Nice action, easy firing, handles well!
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Ciao Shooter
Nice toy, I like it
I would like to have your opinion, I've read that revolving rifles didn't had a gret diffusion because of the problems related
to the fact that, also if very short, there is a space between the drum and the barrel and this cause the hand that hold the forestock
to be invested from shot gas, which is your feedback using the rifle ?
Franco
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the hand that hold the forestock
Hey K, they fixed that issue by putting a gas deflector, bracket on, also very tight tolerance on the gap. It's now wrapped for Christmas so can't give you a lot, but the ease in bringing it up to shooting position, light weight, natural feel was impressive. I shot 5 rounds in just over 2 seconds, also nice! heavy trigger at 11 pounds in double action mode, 5ish in single action. For home defense, I think it will be the next best thing to a handgun for my wife. I'll update when I get to knock some clay pigeons down!
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I haven't kept up with this thread, and wish that I had. I started at the newest posts and worked my way backwards a bit.
I just picked up a Shilin barreled action yesterday. Shilen had not produced actions for a very long time. I ordered mine well over a year ago, and it came in last December. But, because last Spring was so super busy at work, I completely forgot to go pick it up. The local gun shop was very kind to store it for me. For some reason, it just never came to mind. Mainly because when I ordered it, I had not decided on a stock or scope. So, I was in no hurry to get it, until I could have the stock and scope ordered.
A bit of history that led to this build. I had a fascination for the .221 Remington Fireball round, back in the day. But, didn't really want it in Remington's pistol.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.221_Remington_Fireball (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.221_Remington_Fireball)
No convenient gunsmiths around to build a rifle, so I never pursued it. Just as well as I didn't have the means to fund it. Then, Remington decided to bring out a new wildcat round in a .17 Fireball.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.17_Remington_Fireball (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.17_Remington_Fireball)
That's when I decided to take a look. At the time, I had a couple other rifle builds finishing up, and didn't want to jump into another. Within the last 4 or 5 years, a new shop opened in town. I decided to wait until they got established, which they did very fast. They are in their second building, and have outgrown that one as well. Early last year, I made a visit to see what they could do.
My first order was to purchase a Shilin barrel in .17 Fireball. Business was slow that day, because three guys were on computer terminals chasing this round. None had heard of it. The owner spoke up and said that Shilin was now making actions, and there was a 1 year waiting period. It's based on a Savage action, but with several competition improvements. The footprint is that of a Remington. So, I made a down payment on a barreled action in this caliber. I also ordered and paid for a new model Vortex scope. That never came in, because of demand. So, they applied that money towards the barreled action.
Anyway, I brought it home yesterday, just to have it around while I've got some days off to look at it. I think that I've decided on a Manners MCS-T4 Tactical Composite stock.
http://mannersstocks.com/tactical-stocks/ (http://mannersstocks.com/tactical-stocks/)
These can be had flat-top for custom bedding to my barreled action. I'm still considering scope choices. I already have a couple long range varmint builds, .308 and .22-250 AI. Really heavy rifles I'm not going that route again. The composite stock will take care of that. This rifle will be a not-so-long range varmint and squirrel rifle.
I was never a deer hunter, though I've helped my neighbor drag a many one out of the woods. Haven't cleaned one in a long while, as his son is now my supplier for deer meat. Deer meat works much better in Brunswick Stew than beef. I grew up squirrel hunting with a J.C. Higgens single-shot .22 . Got almost the bag limit each year. I graduated to a Remington Nylon 66, Christmas of '64. It had a Ted Williams 4X scope on it. I started getting my bag limit, from then on. I lived and breathed squirrel hunting, while my school buddies talked only of hunting deer with shotguns. Too easy.
Long story winding down. I purchased another FN M&P short action, last year, from a co-worker. It is new in the box. Tentative plans for it are to build another Ackley, around the .257 Roberts. I have two of P.O. Ackley's volumes, Handbook for Shooters and Reloaders. The first is the best for history on the man. You can now get this one in a Kindle book.
http://www.amazon.com/Handbook-Shooters-Reloaders-Parker-Ackley-ebook/dp/B00H4IM9FA/ref=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8&qid=1449844005&sr=8-6&keywords=P.+O.+Ackley (http://www.amazon.com/Handbook-Shooters-Reloaders-Parker-Ackley-ebook/dp/B00H4IM9FA/ref=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8&qid=1449844005&sr=8-6&keywords=P.+O.+Ackley)
The second is mostly his research. That's where I took an interest in his improved .257 Roberts round. Another story. I'll end here. Have a good one.
Jack
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Ok, just took delivery on my latest toy. It's a Walther PPQ 5" in 9mm trim. Not only is it the coolest looking plastic gun on the market, it has the sweetest trigger I've ever felt. Pull is just a shade under 4.5 and like most striker fire seems long. However, it is silky smooth as glass and feels lighter than what the gauge says. In fact it is smoother than every tricked out 1911 I've ever shot. The real surprise is the reset - about .1"!!! The slide is slotted to remove weight and just increases the cool factor. This is a competition ready gun out of the box. I can not wait to hit the range. My Springfield XDM 5.25" is officially for sale!
Jim
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Thanks for the reply Shooter
Franco
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scroll down for the H.R. https://www.congress.gov/bill/114th-congress/house-bill/4269/text (https://www.congress.gov/bill/114th-congress/house-bill/4269/text)
Gotta bad feeling about this one, this time. Only because we no longer have representation. And the economy's shot. And I believe Trump, like him or not, has the rats scared like a cat has entered the room, or something. C2.
silverfox.
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That is downright scary to read. I need to go back and visit this bill several times. Depressing to think that we really don't have representatives for the people in the government. Like we ever truly did. It's all about being elected to a free ride.
As is always stated, guns are only one means for the sick and criminal mind. People kill people with the whatever instrument.
I, for one, really enjoy having them around. Mostly, I like vintage. But, precision shooters are a passion, as well.
Jack
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But, precision shooters are a passion ....
Oh, yes, it is !
Franco
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Well my wife took her 410 out, I set up a ladder(wood! 25yrds) with 5 paper plates, and she started with #4 birdshot, just to get the plates mad, finished with a box of 000 4 pellet P.P. shells and pretty much stopped the plates in their place :icon_biggrin: I think she is now officially a "gun lady" :icon_biggrin:
Notes on the gun; she did have some residue on the forearm, but NO gas issues, just dust. open sights were spot on, she felt safe and confident, no mis-fires. cleaned out easy. When warmer weather gets here, it'll be rifled choke and 45 long colts scoped!