Hoffman Amplifiers Tube Amplifier Forum

Amp Stuff => Tube Amp Building - Tweaks - Repairs => Topic started by: TIMBO on October 30, 2012, 04:29:00 am

Title: New Build TB OVERDRIVE
Post by: TIMBO on October 30, 2012, 04:29:00 am
Hi guy's, I had a lot of fun and success with my last build and its made me want to do a real version of the BTO. I had a spare OT (1750K) that my be OK for a pair of 6L6s,these i had in my spare parts box.

The original amp has a FUZZ circuit in it and had an unusual sound so i have kept it,i always like a REVERB and also had a spare long tank so that is in as well.

Now Tubenit came alone with his OD this and OD that, this got me thinking the original had two spare half triodes and well now this will have an OD as well.

AGAIN, Tubenit came along with his active loop.The passive loop is something i have in all my builds and the salesman that T is i think an active loop would be BUTE.

SOMEONE STOP ME, Can't have all great things without getting out of the chair so i'm going to throw in a couple of relays/footswitch.

SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO much going on  :help:
Might need to delete a few things :-

The Tone pot in the OD, does this have a any effect on the OD in terms the actual overdrive, can the amps treble/bass controls do the tonal effect??
Can the active loop send level be fixed at a set level and the pot mounted on the circuit board as a set and forget,does it need to be adjusted often???
The pot used as the FX level, T said that it worked great as a MASTER VOL, I have had great success with the PPIMV and was going to use it in this build. Could this FX level replace the PPIMV as a master vol???
I have had a switch that in other build that allows FIX and CATHODE biasing will the FIX bias work with this PPIMV??
Can anyone see any problems adding an OD to this circuit,as i not sure what effect it might create.

Anyway, a few questions before i start drilling.Thanks
 
 
Title: Re: New Build TB OVERDRIVE
Post by: tubenit on October 30, 2012, 05:25:13 am
Quote
The Tone pot in the OD, does this have a any effect on the OD in terms the actual overdrive, can the amps treble/bass controls do the tonal effect??

The OD tone pot is VERY important to me tone wise and I use it more than clean tone controls (which I tend to set and forget). It does effect the OD in that when dialed in right, you get some really nice harmonics. I think it helps sustain some frequencies also?  

Quote
Can the active loop send level be fixed at a set level and the pot mounted on the circuit board as a set and forget,does it need to be adjusted often???

Yes, the send can be fixed or done as an internal trim pot. I almost never adjust mine on the D'Lator & on the TBM w/FX .......... the FX send pot is next to a tube socket and not very convenient to change & I use it more as a "set and forget" trimmer.

Quote
The pot used as the FX level, T said that it worked great as a MASTER VOL, I have had great success with the PPIMV and was going to use it in this build. Could this FX level replace the PPIMV as a master vol???

My opinion is yes.  When I have the D'Lator in the D'Mars ODS circuit,  I use the FX level to adjust volume more than the PPIMV.  On the TBM, there is no PPIMV and I just use the FX level pot.  It works great, IMO!

Quote
I have had a switch that in other build that allows FIX and CATHODE biasing will the FIX bias work with this PPIMV??

I am not sure of the answer on this one?  I think the PPIMV only works with cathode biased, but I could be dead wrong on that?

I think is a cool amp design!  IF you draw up a SCH layout, would you please share it?  Looking forward to hearing more about your build.
With respect, Tubenit
Title: Re: New Build TB OVERDRIVE
Post by: sluckey on October 30, 2012, 06:08:11 am
Quote
I have had a switch that in other build that allows FIX and CATHODE biasing will the FIX bias work with this PPIMV??
yes
Title: Re: New Build TB OVERDRIVE
Post by: tubenit on October 30, 2012, 07:24:27 am
Quote
I have had a switch that in other build that allows FIX and CATHODE biasing will the FIX bias work with this PPIMV??
yes

Yep, I was dead wrong (again)!  :l2:

Sluckey, 

I am SO glad that you are around to help us out! I genuinely appreciate your seeing in our(my) blindspots and keeping us (me) on track!  Thanks, my friend!

Your very generous with your help and time! So many of my builds would've remained problematic without your knowledge and generousity.

With respect, Tubenit
Title: Re: New Build TB OVERDRIVE
Post by: TIMBO on October 30, 2012, 03:07:03 pm
Hi guy's, Ive had to do a scale drawing to see if it would fit into the chassis i have (17.5"x10"x3") its going to be tight but i think i was able to keep runs short and direct. I started a SCH layout but it would not fit onto one page and was hard to follow.Thanks
Title: Re: New Build TB OVERDRIVE
Post by: tubenit on October 30, 2012, 05:38:07 pm
You impress me!  That's pretty interesting and I think would be worth the experiment.

Get Geezer's input, please before you start.  He and I communicate "off the forum" some, & I think he might have something useful to you in the way of an opinion and/or advice on this type of layout and design.

Geezer's got the most "can do" attitude I know about experimenting and his innovation is remarkable.  I'd PM him for some feedback and maybe invite him to post on this thread if he is open to it.

I'm rooting for you!  THANKS so much for sharing your innovative ideas!

With respect, Tubenit
Title: Re: New Build TB OVERDRIVE
Post by: Willabe on October 31, 2012, 01:16:29 pm
Sluckey, 

I am SO glad that you are around to help us out! I genuinely appreciate your seeing in our(my) blindspots and keeping us (me) on track!  Thanks, my friend!

Your very generous with your help and time! So many of my builds would've remained problematic without your knowledge and generousity.

With respect, Tubenit

Well said.


              Brad      :occasion14:
Title: Re: New Build TB OVERDRIVE
Post by: TIMBO on November 04, 2012, 03:27:23 am
OK, I think i've got the layout nailed.  :icon_biggrin:
Title: Re: New Build TB OVERDRIVE
Post by: tubenit on November 04, 2012, 05:45:35 am
Thanks for sharing your layout/s!

Out of curiousity, ............ have you done relays on the regular turret board before?  I am wondering how that would work out?  I have a category that perhaps that would be a really nice way of doing them?

with respect, Tubenit
Title: Re: New Build TB OVERDRIVE
Post by: TIMBO on November 04, 2012, 01:32:49 pm
Hey Tubenit, I think that your idea of separate relay boards IS the best idea, but the fact that i am really crambed for space has left me no real option but to mount them on to circuit board. I mounted on the relay on the circuit board of the jubilee build and was a pain to do any changes to.

This time i have sockets that makes the relay removeable and turrets at the side (like yours)that will make it easy to swap wires if neccessary.

I have asked the question before about the relay giving off any interference to other components and most have said that they are OK.
Again mounting on the circuit board has kept every thing short.

I believe that simple is best, but it is hard not to go overboard when so many of you guys come up with such great ideas and as we all know when building these oneoff is that it is only when we have finished we find what it sounds like.

Thanks  :icon_biggrin:





Title: Re: New Build TB OVERDRIVE
Post by: tubenit on November 04, 2012, 01:42:16 pm
Timbo,

Honestly, your idea may prove to be the better?  I truly don't know?  Maybe having them on the board will leave it will lesser wires crossing overhead the relay from the boards to the pots.

With respect, Tubenit
Title: Re: New Build TB OVERDRIVE
Post by: Geezer on November 04, 2012, 04:09:32 pm
Here's a pic of a board I recently built with 8x relays built right onto the board, along with the DC power supply/voltage regulator.

It works perfectly and makes the most of the space I had to squeeze a TON of circuit into the available space.

So, don't be afraid to mount the relays on the board......mine switch silently.
Title: Re: New Build TB OVERDRIVE
Post by: Tone Junkie on November 05, 2012, 12:16:49 am
Damn Geezer thats a lot of switching. Looks cool, whatcha buuilding inquiering minds want to know.
Bill                                                   :guitar1
Title: Re: New Build TB OVERDRIVE
Post by: jojokeo on November 05, 2012, 12:38:52 am
Quote
I have had a switch that in other build that allows FIX and CATHODE biasing will the FIX bias work with this PPIMV??
yes
For fixed bias PPIMV do you not need the resistors & caps after the wipers going towards the 220k resistors w/ the neg bias voltage as in schematic below???
Title: Re: New Build TB OVERDRIVE
Post by: TIMBO on November 05, 2012, 01:19:29 am
I'll second that, leaves my two relays for dead.

While we are on the relay subject, the relays i have don't have the + marked on them,so i will assume that it can be wired any way and a diode won't be required  :dontknow: Thanks  :icon_biggrin:
Title: Re: New Build TB OVERDRIVE
Post by: TIMBO on November 05, 2012, 01:25:47 am
Thanks jojo, I was hoping that i can eliminate the PPIMV and use the FX level as my master, so i will wire in the active loop and see how it performs and i can add the PPIMV later if required.Thanks
Title: Re: New Build TB OVERDRIVE
Post by: jojokeo on November 05, 2012, 03:21:57 am
I have the same deal w/ an amp that can be switched from cathode to fixed bias but has Master Volume only as a pre phase inverter or after the tone stack. Same sort of thing as the FX level I would think? But I wouldn't mind changing this to a "real" PPIMV if possible?

*Need Sluckey's help on this "universal" PPIMV schematic if it can be done or not?
Title: Re: New Build TB OVERDRIVE
Post by: sluckey on November 05, 2012, 07:57:24 am
Quote
*Need Sluckey's help on this "universal" PPIMV schematic if it can be done or not?
Are you referring to the Mission Amps schematic you posted? If so, yes, that MV will work well with a fixed bias amp.

Or, you can eliminate a couple caps and resistors by using the MV in the schematic Timbo posted in the first message in this thread.
Title: Re: New Build TB OVERDRIVE
Post by: sluckey on November 05, 2012, 08:14:25 am
Quote
relays i have don't have the + marked on them,so i will assume that it can be wired any way and a diode won't be required 
Yes, you can wire the coil either way.

The diode is not required for proper operation of the relay regardless of whether the coil has a polarity marking. The purpose of that diode is to kill the voltage spike that occurs whenever the relay coil (actually an inductor) is de-energized (switched off). This spike is actually the CEMF generated by the inductor in it's attempt to oppose any change in current thru the inductor (basic inductor properties). This voltage spike will cause a "pop" in the amplifier. Using the reverse connected diode across the dc coil will short out this voltage spike, effectively eliminating or reducing the audible pop.

I highly recommend using a despiking diode on any dc relay used in an amplifier circuit. The industry standard diode used in low voltage dc relays is the fast acting (and cheap) 1N4148.
Title: Re: New Build TB OVERDRIVE
Post by: jojokeo on November 05, 2012, 10:12:29 am
Or, you can eliminate a couple caps and resistors by using the MV in the schematic Timbo posted in the first message in this thread.

So then this type of Master Volume control is wired up the same for BOTH fixed and cathode biased amps?
Title: Re: New Build TB OVERDRIVE
Post by: sluckey on November 05, 2012, 10:45:05 am
Well there's one difference. The bottom of the MV pots connect to ground for a cathode biased amp, but the bottom of the MV pots connects to bias for a fixed bias amp. Other than that difference, the circuits are the same.
Title: Re: New Build TB OVERDRIVE
Post by: TIMBO on November 05, 2012, 12:24:10 pm
All good info, thanks guy's.
Title: Re: New Build TB OVERDRIVE
Post by: SILVERGUN on November 05, 2012, 01:01:30 pm
Here's a pic of a board I recently built with 8x relays built right onto the board, along with the DC power supply/voltage regulator.
Geezer, are you utilizing a special wiring scheme for the power supply to those relays?.....I think I see that one "blocking" diode appears to be serving 2 relay sockets...?
Title: Re: New Build TB OVERDRIVE
Post by: Geezer on November 05, 2012, 01:51:41 pm
The relays are activated in pairs (4 foot switch unit) so each pair is like a DP4T switch. And yes, I used 1x diode for each pair.

G
Title: Re: New Build TB OVERDRIVE
Post by: jojokeo on November 06, 2012, 09:28:34 am
Well there's one difference. The bottom of the MV pots connect to ground for a cathode biased amp, but the bottom of the MV pots connects to bias for a fixed bias amp. Other than that difference, the circuits are the same.
Does anyone have the two drawings of a PPIMV for comparrison: one for cathode bias and one for fixed bias to see & look at the differences and which can be printed out? TIA, Keo
Title: Re: New Build TB OVERDRIVE
Post by: sluckey on November 06, 2012, 10:14:32 am
This is cut from Timbo's circuit in his original post. In the cathode biased version, the pots are connected to ground. In the fixed bias version the pots are connected to the negative bias (which is AC ground due to the bias filter cap).
Title: Re: New Build TB OVERDRIVE
Post by: jojokeo on November 06, 2012, 12:45:09 pm
Many thanks!!!!

Was there any reason for two caps coming off the pots as shown in the Mission Amps schematic for the fixed bias version?

Also, with an amp that has both the PPIMV and VVR - does having the PPIMV allow a cleaner tone to output tubes (because there's a signal adjustment to lower here) when the VVR is turned down? Because with VVR turned down the pi & output tubes can easily be overdriven, therefore you'd be able to lessen the signal hitting the tubes in the lower B+ condition. This would allow better "lower vol" clean-ish tones from a 50watt amp lets say.
Title: Re: New Build TB OVERDRIVE
Post by: sluckey on November 06, 2012, 01:09:40 pm
Quote
Was there any reason for two caps coming off the pots as shown in the Mission Amps schematic for the fixed bias version?
Yes. The caps isolate the MV from the bias circuit, preventing the MV from changing the bias to the output tubes. That would happen since Bruce's circuit connects the MV pots to ground, therefore the MV would provide a current path for the bias voltage which will create a voltage divider that changes the bias to the tubes. This problem does not exist if you connect the MV pots to the bias voltage rather than ground, eliminating the need for the extra isolation/blocking caps.

Quote
This would allow better "lower vol" clean-ish tones from a 50watt amp lets say.
I don't have any hands on VVR experience, but getting a low volume clean tone from a big amp has never been a problem. Just turn the volume down. I believe VVR is all about getting a low volume "dirty" sound from a big amp.
Title: Re: New Build TB OVERDRIVE
Post by: jojokeo on November 07, 2012, 11:31:05 am
Thanks sluckey, I see the difference now. Doesn't this seem to be everyone's favorite master volume of the day? I think I have a cross-line on an amp, others have the pre-ppi, and only VVR on others, but don't think I have this one installed on anything? I've read varying opinions on it where tubenit didn't like on his 56T and other amps a year or two ago but seems to have changed his mind lately? Also, geezer had this combined w/ VVR, then when the VVR burnt out for some reason - he didn't mind and left it out in favor of only using the PPIMV. Then I've read others that like the verisitility of having both VVR and PPIMV to dial in the sound and level they feel is optimum.
Title: Re: New Build TB OVERDRIVE
Post by: Geezer on November 07, 2012, 01:12:06 pm
Those all have limitations and loss of good tone when turned down.

I have settled on the 2x triode buffered effects loop (dumble type with send/return/recovery controls) as the best, using the return and recovery pots to limit the volume with the least negative effect.

Ymmv, G
Title: Re: New Build TB OVERDRIVE
Post by: jojokeo on November 07, 2012, 01:31:34 pm
Thanks geezer, so then you're basically only using a pre-ppi as a master volume then or rather the now famous "PELMV" (post effects loop mater vol). ;)
Title: Re: New Build TB OVERDRIVE
Post by: TIMBO on November 07, 2012, 01:33:34 pm
Now we are getting somewhere, I too are a fan of the PPIMV more so than the VVR (cost and sound) but they both loose a bit when turned down. So if the LOOP LEVEL (as a master with no FXs plugged in) can maintain the sound/tone at any level this can only be a good thing.Can any one give me a YES on this??

BUT will it perform the same with an FX pluggud in??  :dontknow: Thanks
Title: Re: New Build TB OVERDRIVE
Post by: Geezer on November 07, 2012, 02:00:13 pm
I only use mine with effects in the loop. I find that the extra triodes/buffers add something that I like to the tone. So to me, it's something a bit more than just a pre-phase inverter master volume.

G
Title: Re: New Build TB OVERDRIVE
Post by: TIMBO on November 12, 2012, 01:47:59 am
Hi guy's, I been thinking about using the LOOP LEVEL as a MASTER VOLUME and think it best to position it as on "sheet 2" and DELETE the PPIMV. BUTTTTTT, If it does not perform as i would like a MASTER VOLUME too, i would be unable to reposition it as on "Sheet 1" (the PPIMV can be added if neccessary at any time)

Can anyone throw any ideas my way. Thanks  :icon_biggrin:
Title: Re: New Build TB OVERDRIVE
Post by: TIMBO on November 12, 2012, 03:27:38 am
Back again, My next problem is TRANSFORMERS, Their position and orientation.

I have arranged then this way for ease of wiring but i'm not sure how they will effect the tubes. I think that the PREAMP tubes will be least effected this way  :dontknow: Thanks
Title: Re: New Build TB OVERDRIVE
Post by: TIMBO on November 22, 2012, 01:53:39 am
Hi guy's, Finally was able to drill some holes, thought i had it all good BUT  :BangHead: :cussing: :sad2: (can you spot the GOOF) thank god for ALUMINIUM and the guys at the sheet metal shop.
Title: Re: New Build TB OVERDRIVE
Post by: SILVERGUN on November 22, 2012, 12:25:56 pm
(can you spot the GOOF)
Do you mean you weren't trying to merge those 2 tubes together for a little transconductance mojo?? :think1:

This was the part of my last build that really surprised me......I couldn't believe it took me 78 hours to get my chassis laid out and cut/drilled........I agree :BangHead:
Title: Re: New Build TB OVERDRIVE
Post by: TIMBO on November 29, 2012, 12:22:51 am
Hi guy's,got the main PSU sorted and getting 420v@ the standby. The bias voltage supply is tap off the main PSU with a bit tweaking i'm getting a good range from 0 to -55v,but i'm thinking that being able to dial it down to 0v may not be a good thing ( IDIOT factor).Thanks
Title: Re: New Build TB OVERDRIVE
Post by: sluckey on November 29, 2012, 07:16:18 am
Quote
i'm thinking that being able to dial it down to 0v may not be a good thing
I agree.
Title: Re: New Build TB OVERDRIVE
Post by: tubenit on November 29, 2012, 07:23:13 am
Hey man, I am rooting for you!  Really looking forward to hearing how this build turns out. THANKS for sharing your ideas. I love the gutsy innovation.

With respect, Tubenit
Title: Re: New Build TB OVERDRIVE
Post by: jazbo8 on November 30, 2012, 08:23:32 pm
Slightly OT, what hookup wires are you using in the build? I went through the trouble of running shielded cables for many low level signal path in my TOS build but just read somewhere that solid-core hookup wire should provide a quicker, open sound (hi-fi speak)... :dontknow:

Jaz
Title: Re: New Build TB OVERDRIVE
Post by: TIMBO on November 30, 2012, 10:04:44 pm
Hi jaz, Funny you should ask, I actually use cable that you would use for TRAILER lights. I can get 7 core cable that has green, brown,red,black,white,yellow and blue, each are multi strand @ 0.64mm/22ga.The concern with using this wire is that the insulation was not rated for high voltages. I have since found that here in Australia most electricial wires are clad in V-90 PVC insulation that is rated @ 700v so this was good news to me and at a couple of bucks a meter, its pretty cheep.  :icon_biggrin:

I much prefer to use the multi strand cable just makes it a bit easier to get into tight places and i don't think that it makes much of a difference to the sound/tone of an amp.

The topic has come up before about that colour codes in valve amps are not set in stone but i find different colour wire makes it easier to troubleshoot/trace and having seven wires is perfect for valve (9 pin) sockets :-

PIN 1 - RED
PIN 2 - WHITE
PIN 3 - BLACK
PIN 4 - GREEN
PIN 5 - WHITE (when using with 12.6v supply)
PIN 6 - BROWN
PIN 7 - YELLOW
PIN 8 - BLUE
PIN 9 - GREEN
GROUNDS - BLACK
Other component connection is what ever bits i have laying around,some like to use YELLOW but just makes it hard to trace.

Hope this helps. :icon_biggrin:
Title: Re: New Build TB OVERDRIVE
Post by: jazbo8 on November 30, 2012, 10:49:11 pm
That's a good tip for color-coding the wires, I can see how it can help with tracing signal and troubleshooting.

Thanks,
Jaz
Title: Re: New Build TB OVERDRIVE
Post by: TIMBO on December 01, 2012, 01:52:56 am
Hey jaz, You can't have enough SHEILDED cable for the TOS and it is way better to run shielded in the signal path. Hope the TOS build is going well, they are a fantastic amp. :guitar1
Title: Re: New Build TB OVERDRIVE
Post by: jazbo8 on December 01, 2012, 05:05:21 am
The TOS was my most ambitious build to date, it sounded dreadful (hard to believe I know) until I swap out the OPT, now it's my favorite! I am sure it can be improved upon further with some tube-rolling, parts tweaking... anyway I'd like to enjoy playing it for awhile, before messing with it - which is not always a good thing...

BTW, I think it is a good idea to get +-20% on the bias control, but you definitely do not want to get close to 0... Looking forward to hearing some clips on your new build.

Jaz
Title: Re: New Build TB OVERDRIVE
Post by: TIMBO on December 01, 2012, 03:59:56 pm
Hi guy's, Rehashed the bias circuit as per the fender circuit from sluckey's info and getting a better range of -29v to -58v. Thanks
Title: Re: New Build TB OVERDRIVE
Post by: TIMBO on December 07, 2012, 04:13:20 pm
Hi guy's, Got the boards together and so far alls coming together nicely. :icon_biggrin:
Title: Re: New Build TB OVERDRIVE
Post by: sluckey on December 07, 2012, 04:57:51 pm
Quite an ambitious project. And nicely done too.
Title: Re: New Build TB OVERDRIVE
Post by: Willabe on December 07, 2012, 05:11:19 pm
Quite an ambitious project. And nicely done too.

Yep, very nice Timbo!


              Brad      :thumbsup:
Title: Re: New Build TB OVERDRIVE
Post by: tubenit on December 07, 2012, 05:39:35 pm
Very impressive!  THANKS for continuing to share about it.

with respect, Tubenit
Title: Re: New Build TB OVERDRIVE
Post by: SILVERGUN on December 07, 2012, 07:28:25 pm
:huh: :huh: :huh: :huh: :huh: :huh: :huh: :huh: :huh: :huh: :huh: :huh: :huh: :huh: :huh: :huh: :huh: :huh: :huh: :huh:
Title: Re: New Build TB OVERDRIVE
Post by: TIMBO on December 08, 2012, 03:38:17 pm
Hi guy's, I've noticed that there is a lot of different combinations of resistors/caps around power tubes and i'm sure there is a good reason for this.
Anyway i thought that i might get you guys to give up your thoughts about the different components and how they affect the TONE, SOUND and DISTORTION of the OUTPUT.
Also i am using a Hammond 1750k OT (because i had it) 8K into 4ohms which may not be the best for this build but i am hoping that it may add a bit of magic  :dontknow:
The components in question :-
Coupling caps off the PI
Grid resistors on power tubes
Screen resistors on power tubes
Cathode cap/resistor

Just some thoughts before i heat up the soldering iron.Thanks
Title: Re: New Build TB OVERDRIVE
Post by: kagliostro on December 08, 2012, 05:03:16 pm
Hi TIMBO

nice work  :thumbsup:

I've seen something in your photos that say to me you're cheating   :icon_biggrin: :wink:

please explain the use you do of the copper on the back side of the board

are you using it only as a shield or also as a ground bus ?


K
Title: Re: New Build TB OVERDRIVE
Post by: TIMBO on December 08, 2012, 08:24:27 pm
Hi k, No, nothing special, i'm just using PCB board and taped out the copper but not for any real reason.  :icon_biggrin:
Title: Re: New Build TB OVERDRIVE
Post by: TIMBO on January 26, 2013, 02:16:38 am
Hi guy's, Fired her up with no real problems.

BUT, there is always a BUT.
The first thing is that with no guitar plugged in and all knobs at "0" - quiet as a mouse  :thumbsup:
When turning up the volume on the ppimv - still quiet
when turning up the FX level - loud 50HZ type hum
when turning up the volume - even louder hum

Did the usual thing chop stix - hum
remove relay 1 to disconnect the fuzz circuit - hum
disconnected the relay power supply - hum
checked tubes/swapped - hum
checked the circuit several times - hum
tried both fixed/cathode bias - hum
removed tubes from V1 and hum gone when PI removed

so not being able to track the source of the hum,i plugged the guitar in to see what would happen........
a nice guitar sound comes out the speaker....
I found this to be odd when the volume turn up the hum would rise as the sound of the guitar....
but with volume @"0" i could strum and still get sound, i rechecked the pot grounding and all is good and i rechecked the wireing around the TS but nothing stood out????? this blew me away
So i disconnected the wire from pin7 V2 and i STILL are getting signal through  :think1: :dontknow:  :help:

I rechecked that there IS NO connection between the volume pot and pin7 of V2 also the signal does not pass if V2 is removed as you would expect
This one has got me stumped as i did this same TS in the MIMI BTO with no problems  :dontknow:



Title: Re: New Build TB OVERDRIVE
Post by: tubenit on January 26, 2013, 06:39:22 am
Quote
So i disconnected the wire from pin7 V2 and i STILL are getting signal through    


In other words, ........... there is NO wire at all connected to V2-7?

OR do you mean there is no wire between the volume and V2-7?

It looks like that a signal could go thru the input jack thru the fuzz circuit to V2-7 if the fuzz circuit is still hooked up to V2-7.

I don't see how it would be possible to get a signal thru if there are absolutely NO wires at all on V2-7?

With respect, Tubenit
Title: Re: New Build TB OVERDRIVE
Post by: TIMBO on January 26, 2013, 10:54:17 pm
This is really got me stuffed  :w2: All i can do is throw some things out there cause i can't see where the problem is:-

This is what is happening... when all wires are in place and checked several times off original schem,my schem and the same circuit i used in another build that worked well, with guitar plugged in, signal pass with some control of the volume/tone but when the volume is at "0" the signal still passes, one would think that the signal would be directed to ground.

Things i have done:-
I disconnected the 220k/680p from pin7 of V2 and the signal still passed, signal quiet
Removed relay1 and V1 to completely disconnect any connection between input and pin7 of V2
reconnected wire to pin7 V2 disconnected pin1 V2 from .02 cap and signal passed,signal loud
Disconnected wires from from pin1 and pin7 V2 no signal passed
disconnected SW1b and SW2b just in case

This might be REALLY out there, the only connection i can see is the plate resistors that feed pin1 and pin6

Thats all i've got at the moment,Thanks
Title: Re: New Build TB OVERDRIVE
Post by: DummyLoad on January 26, 2013, 11:54:33 pm
you are missing 2 caps in the PPIMV ckt. - in fixed bias mode - you'll upset power tube bias without them. please see attached schematic.

it is likely that you mis-wired something - likely a plate load resistor & some audio is leaking through PS chain. disconnect FX, OD, and Fuzz. trace clean pre-amp path then reinsert FX, OD, Fuzz one at a time.
you're amp is extremely complex circuit and the PS is not optimal IMO. triplers and qauadruplers may work in single tube class A and P-P in class pure class A where current demand is more or less constant; i do believe that you may need to re-think that part of your design once you work out the pre-amp kinks. keep an eye on the bias voltage under heavy loading when output stage is running in fixed bias mode.

respectfully,

--DL

edit: deleted bogus schema...
Title: Re: New Build TB OVERDRIVE
Post by: TIMBO on January 27, 2013, 02:04:55 am
Hey DL, First up this is a topic http://www.el34world.com/Forum/index.php?topic=15026.0ms (http://www.el34world.com/Forum/index.php?topic=15026.0ms) seems to have different opinions but when i check the voltage reading across the 1ohm resistors it remains the same at all settings.

Is it realy possible for some audio to travell through the PS  :w2: if you are able to expand on the subject i'm all ears. Thanks

OOPs, forgot to add, have disconnected reverb,OD and have found that the FX loop seems to be causing the majority of the hum
Title: Re: New Build TB OVERDRIVE
Post by: sluckey on January 27, 2013, 05:52:02 am
Quote
you are missing 2 caps in the PPIMV ckt. - in fixed bias mode - you'll upset power tube bias without them. please see attached schematic.
The 2 caps you added will destroy the tube bias for fixed bias as well as cathode bias. Timbo's bias circuit works fine just as he has it drawn.
Title: Re: New Build TB OVERDRIVE
Post by: DummyLoad on January 27, 2013, 07:06:01 am
Quote
you are missing 2 caps in the PPIMV ckt. - in fixed bias mode - you'll upset power tube bias without them. please see attached schematic.
The 2 caps you added will destroy the tube bias for fixed bias as well as cathode bias. Timbo's bias circuit works fine just as he has it drawn.

you're right. sorry timbo.

--DL
Title: Re: New Build TB OVERDRIVE (DEAD)
Post by: TIMBO on January 27, 2013, 04:33:01 pm
Hi guy's, Looks like i'll have to lay this one to rest for the moment  :sad2: The debugging has got the better of me as i have spent the last three day poking and prodding this thing to DEATH  :BangHead: :cussing: and with little knowledge and equiptment to find trhe problem  :w2:

I think the project is a great one and maybe using more standard components PSU,OT etc... and less bells and whistles maybe this one would have flown.Thanks to all for your help........... on to the next one  :icon_biggrin: