Hoffman Amplifiers Tube Amplifier Forum
Amp Stuff => Tube Amp Building - Tweaks - Repairs => Topic started by: ElliottKoch on December 06, 2012, 09:18:01 pm
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I am sure its been asked before, but I'd rather not search the history of the forum, and apologise for my laziness.
I've looked about and have found mixed input. So if there weren't any budget constraints, which tubes would you buy?
Also, for those who have to pinch pennies, which are the best?
I do like the sound of the JJ's, but I have had bad luck with the power tubes (loose bits in the tube, short lifetime - may have been me, is there anything I can do to ensure its not me?)
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Brands don't have much to do with whether I like one tube's sound over another. YMMV
Generally, tubes made in the heyday (late 50s/early 60s) are superior in quality to stuff made today, but even then you can get dud NOS toobs
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Additionally, your poll doesn't accomodate (at least) two things:
1: the idea that *some* JJ's (for example, from previous eras or production types, may be better (see #2) than other JJ's.
2: What is "better/best"? Sound? Reliability? Consistency across say a dozen tubes? Ability to handle rough (eg; road) treatment and remain fairly constant operation-wise? Better replacement policy should a new one turn out bad or gassy?
3: And finally, some folks may really like JJ (again, for example) 12AX7's, etc; and hate their power tubes.
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Additionally, your poll doesn't accomodate (at least) two things:
1: the idea that *some* JJ's (for example, from previous eras or production types, may be better (see #2) than other JJ's.
2: What is "better/best"? Sound? Reliability? Consistency across say a dozen tubes? Ability to handle rough (eg; road) treatment and remain fairly constant operation-wise? Better replacement policy should a new one turn out bad or gassy?
3: And finally, some folks may really like JJ (again, for example) 12AX7's, etc; and hate their power tubes.
very good point and also its important to buy from someone you trust. Ive found sometimes saving a buck costs me more .
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Speaking of JJ output tubes, I love the 6V6S and have had a good run with these generally over the last few year in several amps. I don't like their 6L6GC much tho.
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For 6L6 output tubes I like the SOVTEK 6L6WXT. For EL34 I like the WINGED C or MESA BOOG tubes. For preamp tubes I prefer OLD stock whether NOS or good used, but I also like JJ and Sovtek 12__7 style. For 8-pin preamp I only use OLD stock which I buy from a couple different US collectors and traders (I can supply names if anyone wants them). I don't have any amps that run the really big boys i.e. the KT66 and bigger but I will someday soon.
Also, I agree with other members who say that the new stuff could even change day from day at these Russian or Eastern Block companies. So, that means in effect, a pair of Sovteks I bought last yr. could be different in materials and tone from a pair I buy tomorrow?
Boys, you got to carry that weight. Jack D
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Experience: In most amps I've played, output tube changes made little-to-no difference in the sound of the amp.
Guess: Since it's the last thing before the OT/speaker, it takes a very big difference in outputt ube operation to hear an audible change at the speaker. Also, if the amp uses negative feedback around the output stage, that feedback is reducing apparent differences between tubes (but also differences in the same tube over its lifespan).
Disclaimer: I'll admit not spending a *lot* of time with each swap evaluating subtle differences in the distortion, or over the whole range of distorted sounds from a given amp. But to be honest, without recording each setup, I'm not sure how good my (or anyone's) audio memory would be after a swap and rebias to the same conditions.
Result: I have a big stash of old production tubes, but I've never been afraid to pop in a tube from any other manufacturer, new or old. Maybe I'll revisit some testing now that I have some recording toys.
Experience: In most every amp, I've found swapping the input preamp tube to have the biggest effect on the tone of the amp, as far as tube-changes go. I've heard lessening effect as I move down the preamp signal chain towards the phase inverter/output tubes.
Guess: Even a small change at the input tube makes a big overall change, because that small change gets amplified by everything else in the signal path. Also, same caveat regarding feedback applies; if the preamp stage has a significant degree of feedback, there probably won't be an obvious tonal change either intially or during life.
Disclaimer: I haven't spent a lot of time evaluating new-production tubes because I have a bunch of old production preamp tubes and don't tend to swap. That said, I did once buy 5-6 different brands of 12AX7's in one sitting to do a shootout; unfortunately I never really spent the time to do it, and again, without recordings how can you distinguish the likely small differences?
Result: I do generally stick with old-production tubes (true "NOS" is a different thing and almost not seen anymore; when the last time you walked into an electronics store and bought their old assortment of tubes cause they needed to clear room for their cell phones and batteries?). I find that even for exotic "NOS" tubes, if you keep your eyes open, you'll find a good deal on them, while possibly paying as little as you would for a new chinese tube. I think it's worth spending money on these, costs less than exotic output tubes, but is not money-well-spent in necessarily every tube socket.
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The new Tung-sol 5881 seem to be a very good tube. Also I use their 12Ax7 in the PI of many amps. I haven't found any good EL34 new. I still get NOS here or some I have just had for a while. I have a large supply of good tubes from the 50 and 60. I do have a set of JJ's in a brown bassman that have been working well. Problem is with them it seems like I have to ship back too many duds to Eurotubes. I have better luck with the tube store.
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I am really digging the Tung-Sol EL34B in my Sovtek/Splawn. I prefer used but not used up NOS preamp tubes in that amp. I have been running new stock Electro Harmonix in my Goodsell Super 17 (EL84 and 12AX7) with good results.
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I am really digging the Tung-Sol EL34B
I have not tried them. Thanks for the tip. Are they lasting a good while? That is the problem I found with new EL34 is they do not last.
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I have not tried them. Thanks for the tip. Are they lasting a good while? That is the problem I found with new EL34 is they do not last.
Time will tell. This amp runs 640VDC on the plates. It had Tung-Sol EL34B tubes in it when I bought it used. I thought they sounded really good but I wasn't sure how many miles they had on them so I re-tubed it and used the same tubes since they obviously hold up to the high B+. I'm not gigging anymore so I only average a couple hours a week of use.