Hoffman Amplifiers Tube Amplifier Forum
Amp Stuff => Tube Amp Building - Tweaks - Repairs => Topic started by: punkykatt on February 19, 2013, 02:47:00 pm
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Just wondering if any of you guys ever tried the Alessandro High-End foil in oil coupling caps in any of your builds. What your thoughts are tone wise and do you feel they are worth the $$$$. Thanks for your input.
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Haven't tried those. But I am not a good judge because I'm discovering that the one buck brown Xicons actually do sound very good. For guitar amps seriously, I think it's all hype. I would, however, love to try an Alessandro in a guitar if I could get it to fit. Jim
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Haven't tried those cause I can't afford them! I have tried Auricaps and some NOS paper in oils and they do sound better to my ears than some of the cheaper variety.
Trouble is,unless you spring for top of the line everything in an amp,it's difficult to tell what makes the amp sound better. I would try different caps on maybe a champ build and then your wallet won't feel so empty before you spring the big dough for a more complex build that has 10 or more expensive coupling caps in it.
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Just wondering if any of you guys ever tried the Alessandro High-End foil in oil coupling caps in any of your builds. What your thoughts are tone wise and do you feel they are worth the $$$$.
I have not tried Alessandro's caps. However, the pictures look very much like Jensen paper-in-oil caps.
I have used Jensen copper-foil paper-in-oil caps in a 5E3 build. The prices were similar but cheaper elsewhere (http://angela.com/angelajensencopperfoilpaperinoilsignalcapacitors.aspx), without Alessandro's name on the cap (also true of Alessandro's RV4-style pots).
The end result was an amp that sounded like a 5E3; I have not used such expensive caps in any amp since because I cannot find a reason that justifies their use in a guitar amp. I suspect that the cost-benefit ratio would be hard to justify in a full-range stereo system as well.
I think the caps I used in my last build were ~$0.50-$1.00/each.
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The end result was an amp that sounded like a 5E3; I have not used such expensive caps in any amp since because I cannot find a reason that justifies their use in a guitar amp. I suspect that the cost-benefit ratio would be hard to justify in a full-range stereo system as well.
I bet you didn't use the right power cord or solder! :icon_biggrin:
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See, had I used a Furutech power inlet, the amp would have been sonic nirvana. I know better now...
I still have the ultra-stupid-expensive solder if KWM ever comes back around to buy it. :icon_biggrin:
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I think you should send him a sample (enough for one joint). He might go for it!
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A $30 sample?? I'm generous, but best I'll do is half-off discount. $15 for one solder joint.
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Audiophiles tend to buy into the high-end cap game in the search of perfection in sound reproduction.In a guitar amp we don't want sound reproduction,we want nasty,grainy,dirty sounds that color the sound plenty that comes out and hits our eardrums.
High-end audiophile caps are often too clear and clean for a guitar amp.
There is only one way to find out if they sound better.Try them yourself.
Are they going to make your amp sound like a choir of angels? Not likely.Will they make it sound better than 1.00 caps? Probably.How MUCH better vs how much they cost is the debate.
I do know that some do indeed sound better than the 1.00 Xicons but you don't have to spend 50.00 per cap to get that improvement.
I have done quite a few coupling cap upgrades on amps and using better grade caps always made the amp sound better to my ears.I've never spent more than 7.00 on a hi-end cap though.Just the two 5E3's I built with Auricaps.They were more transparent sounding than other 5E3's with mallory's or orange drops.
The average joe would not care.The guys I built the amps for did care.
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I have used expensive caps before. I have a box full of sozo vintage and blue molded which they sent me for free, it's a long story. I have used many different types. I guess durability is no 1 in considering a cap. I do not understand how a proper working cap can sound different. I have heard ceramic is harsh compared to Mica although I swear I cannot hear it. Would someone please explain how storing and releasing electricity in a cap can change tone. I am ignorant in this area I guess because I think of caps like rechargeable batteries. It is silly to think a specific battery will make a more pleasing light. I have wondered for years about this.
I built or rebuilt 2 princeton reverbs recently. Both older BF amps. One used blue molded sozo per the customer and the other used a combination of Orange Drops and Mallorys. All silver Mica. A/B the 2 amps along with mine which I used some yellow sozo and blues and ceramic for pf. Same cabinet, same guitar. I cannot hear any difference. The only difference I heard is the noise level was a little higher on the older amps as opposed to mine which was built last year and I did use better solder on mine :l2:
However, I can hear a difference in transformers and tubes so I would assume a cap could make a difference. I did read an article about CC resistors having the ability to distort, but the tradeoff to me for a quieter amp I will take every time unless I am really attempting to recreate an old amp like in tweed 50's tones. I think part of the charm is the humming pups and a little amp noise.
Give me 2 hour old strings, a great cabinet and an amp turned up where it is cooking and sounding good and I will forget what caps I used in what amp.
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I think of caps like rechargeable batteries. It is silly to think a specific battery will make a more pleasing light.
Duracell makes for a much better mood enhancing flashlight. :icon_biggrin:
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I think of caps like rechargeable batteries. It is silly to think a specific battery will make a more pleasing light.
Duracell makes for a much better mood enhancing flashlight. :icon_biggrin:
I will keep this in mind. Lord John, you are very enlightened.
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I think of caps like rechargeable batteries. It is silly to think a specific battery will make a more pleasing light.
Duracell makes for a much better mood enhancing flashlight. :icon_biggrin:
I will keep this in mind. Lord John, you are very enlightened.
I see what you did there.
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I think of caps like rechargeable batteries. It is silly to think a specific battery will make a more pleasing light.
Duracell makes for a much better mood enhancing flashlight. :icon_biggrin:
I will keep this in mind. Lord John, you are very enlightened.
I see what you did there.
Yep, usually when I get creative I end up getting shocked. This time went better, but the day is not over.
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... Would someone please explain how storing and releasing electricity in a cap can change tone. ...
It couldn't, if caps behaved as an ideal capacitor.
In real life, they don't behave as an ideal capacitor, due to tradeoffs in materials used and construction method.
To see an equivalent circuit of a real (aluminum electrolytic) capacitor, look at the top of page 6 of this Cornell-Dubilier Application Guide (http://www.cde.com/catalogs/AEappGUIDE.pdf). Don't get lost in all the other stuff in the guide.
Different construction techniques and different dielectrics (the insulator) are used to produce a desired capacitance and voltage rating in a desired-size package. General rule of thumb is the more capacitance per square inch (or cubic centimeter), the more parasitic components will move the cap's behavior from that of an ideal cap.
CAVEAT: An air-dielectric cap may have the closest performance to an ideal capacitor (based on the qualities of the dielectric), but its size for a given capacitance may be so big that now cap self-inductance becomes a factor.
BUT... there's a lot of fairy dust and marketing out there. The audible differences between most, say film, caps used for coupling cap duty are generally pretty small in my opinion compared to a change of cap value. The point of diminishing returns is quickly reached.
Bottom line is that there are generally good general choices you can make for a cap for a particular application; tweaking beyond the general choice is unlikely to return significant benefit.
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Yep, usually when I get creative I end up getting shocked. This time went better, but the day is not over.
:laugh:
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I worked on a customers amp he had built and was surprised when I pulled the chassis!
It was loaded with high end capacitors,even the bypass caps were 600v monsters.He had built himself probably the most expensive Deluxe Reverb ever built.He had cold solder joints all over the place likely cause he couldn't get in to solder them cause there was no room!
They were all Jupiter HT series beeswax paper Aluminum foil caps. The .1uf caps are 35.00 each!!
The amp sounded fine when I got it working,not sure if it was worth the extra $600.00 in capacitors.
Everything in there was jammed in to make it fit.If you price it out he paid at least $600.00 plus for the capacitors alone.
My amp that cost me less than 100.00 to build sounded quite a bit better with old recycled blue turd fender caps. He bought into a salesman's line when he phoned a company that deals with lots of audiophile caps.He was told it would blow his mind with tone.Well it blew something!His Christmas funds!
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They were all Jupiter HT series beeswax paper Aluminum foil caps. The .1uf caps are 35.00 each!!
Yeah, never tried those but I've heard that if the amp gets real hot after a lengthy playing time then a honey-like fragrance comes out of the amp. Wonderful... :worthy1: