Hoffman Amplifiers Tube Amplifier Forum

Amp Stuff => Tube Amp Building - Tweaks - Repairs => Topic started by: kagliostro on March 16, 2013, 03:55:08 am

Title: Univox U45 (not U45b) schematic - is the NFB connection missing ??
Post by: kagliostro on March 16, 2013, 03:55:08 am
I was sending to Doug a schematic of the Univox U45 (not the U45b) I've found

but looking to it seems that the NFB connection was deleted

look to the little dot on the upper side of the 8ohm winding and at the piece of "wire" connected between the 100R and 33k on the cathode of the 6av6 tube

what do you think about ?

K
Title: Re: Univox U45 (not U45b) schematic - is the NFB connection missing ??
Post by: tubeswell on March 16, 2013, 07:31:06 am
Yes - no NFB there
Title: Re: Univox U45 (not U45b) schematic - is the NFB connection missing ??
Post by: kagliostro on March 16, 2013, 07:36:52 am
So, for you, the NFB isn't present in the original amp

but what to think about the "wire" under the 6v6 ??

K
Title: Re: Univox U45 (not U45b) schematic - is the NFB connection missing ??
Post by: sluckey on March 16, 2013, 08:33:01 am
Quote
but looking to it seems that the NFB connection was deleted
I agree. Looks like a draftsman was told to remove that part of the circuit but he didn't get it all removed. I have no idea if the actual NFB circuit is actually in that amp nor what value was used for the missing series resistor.
Title: Re: Univox U45 (not U45b) schematic - is the NFB connection missing ??
Post by: tubeswell on March 16, 2013, 08:40:00 am
but what to think about the "wire" under the 6v6 ??

What Steve said. The wire going to the 100R beneath the 6AV6 looks like it was part of the NFB loop as initially drawn.
Title: Re: Univox U45 (not U45b) schematic - is the NFB connection missing ??
Post by: kagliostro on March 16, 2013, 10:38:54 am
Knowing that, if someone build it it, will be easy to find the right resistor value using initially a trimmer connected as rheostat

I'll send to Doug the schematic with the red line

K

Title: Re: Univox U45 (not U45b) schematic - is the NFB connection missing ??
Post by: jeff on March 16, 2013, 11:37:14 am
Looks possible it had NFB.

What's with the 1.5M going from the first tube's plate to ground?
Title: Re: Univox U45 (not U45b) schematic - is the NFB connection missing ??
Post by: kagliostro on March 16, 2013, 01:23:33 pm
Quote
What's with the 1.5M going from the first tube's plate to ground?

Yes, interesting question

a voltage divider to tamer B+ or something as to permit the Tremolo in V1 ????

K

Title: Re: Univox U45 (not U45b) schematic - is the NFB connection missing ??
Post by: tubeswell on March 17, 2013, 10:09:46 am
Quote
What's with the 1.5M going from the first tube's plate to ground?

Yes, interesting question

a voltage divider to tamer B+ or something as to permit the Tremolo in V1 ????

K



A crude method of fixing the plate idle voltage
Title: Re: Univox U45 (not U45b) schematic - is the NFB connection missing ??
Post by: PRR on March 17, 2013, 04:13:55 pm
> What's with the 1.5M

The tremolo has to over-power the preamp.

They both start from the same supply, which would be a fair fight.

So the preamp is crippled with a lower effective supply, so its 150V 220K can cut-off the preamp's 90V 470K||1.5Meg.
Title: Re: Univox U45 (not U45b) schematic - is the NFB connection missing ??
Post by: PRR on March 17, 2013, 04:24:05 pm
The NFB resistor can be 3K for "small NFB". Higher values have little effect, smaller values will make the amp too "tame".

I suspect it was stolen/researched from the 2K7 in the late Champ. However the slightly smaller output bottle, generally lower B+, and lamed preamp, made it tamer than a Champ. And resistors cost money!!! If it worked fine (less tame) without a 2K7/3K3, then right away the factory would leave that resistor out. The 100 ohms can go too, but then you have to bring the cathode RC down to ground, which means a layout change, or a jumper, and maybe they didn't bother.

For yourself: put in the 100 ohm, and be ready to try 10K 3K 1.5K 1K from the speaker. Smoke-test, it should play fine and brash. Then try 10K then 3K NFB. If it howls, reverse OT primary. The "right" value depends a lot on speaker and style. For acoustic with hot active pickup, and large closed speaker, 1K NFB will be very clean up to clipping. For trash-amp with small open cab, no NFB may rock-out better.
Title: Re: Univox U45 (not U45b) schematic - is the NFB connection missing ??
Post by: kagliostro on March 18, 2013, 04:31:58 pm
Many Thanks Sluckey - Tubeswell - PRR

your answers are always very instructive


K