Hoffman Amplifiers Tube Amplifier Forum

Amp Stuff => Tube Amp Building - Tweaks - Repairs => Topic started by: Mats on May 03, 2014, 12:12:36 pm

Title: Tonestack Bassmaster
Post by: Mats on May 03, 2014, 12:12:36 pm
Hi
Im looking, trying to understand, one Traynor Bassmaster YBA-1 40 Watt.
There seem to be different schematics of this amp.
The one that I look at have:
the stage before LTPI is set set up like a concertina splitter.
(68K at Anode and 2k2 and 68K at Cathode)
Tonestack is connected to the Anode, in this amp.
What if connect the EQ to the cathode ?
Is it possible ?
Title: Re: Tonestack Bassmaster
Post by: HotBluePlates on May 03, 2014, 12:37:38 pm
Please link to the schematic you're looking at. Perhaps it is this one (http://el34world.com/Forum/index.php?topic=17027.0)?
Title: Re: Tonestack Bassmaster
Post by: Mats on May 03, 2014, 01:01:48 pm
This
Page 9
Title: Re: Tonestack Bassmaster
Post by: sluckey on May 03, 2014, 02:06:58 pm
Quote
(68K at Anode and 2k2 and 68K at Cathode)
I see 6.8K (6800Ω) at the cathode, not 68K.
Title: Re: Tonestack Bassmaster
Post by: Mats on May 03, 2014, 02:11:11 pm
I first looked in KOC Vol 3-book
and there it is 68k 2k2 and 68k
and in text its written, "configured like a concertina splitter"
Title: Re: Tonestack Bassmaster
Post by: HotBluePlates on May 03, 2014, 02:26:28 pm
That's a poor choice of words on KOC's part, unless he elaborates further. And it should be 68k, 2.2k, 6.8k.

The 6.8kΩ resistor doesn't contribute to bias, because there is a grid reference resistor returned to the bottom of the 2.2kΩ. There will be some reduction of gain for that stage due to local negative feedback because there is a large (9kΩ total) unbypassed cathode resistance.

It is only "configured like a concertina splitter" because there is a self-bias arrangement similar to the bootstrapping of a self-biased concertina splitter. But a concertina has a gain less than 1 to each output, and this stage will provide some gain more than 1 to its plate output.
Title: Re: Tonestack Bassmaster
Post by: Mats on May 03, 2014, 02:29:55 pm
Thanks
My mistake
Thanks once again
Title: Re: Tonestack Bassmaster
Post by: HotBluePlates on May 03, 2014, 02:33:56 pm
Tonestack is connected to the Anode, in this amp.
What if connect the EQ to the cathode ?
Is it possible ?

Look closely at the version you have. Do you see the 0.01uF caps, 100kΩ and 3.3MΩ resistors between V2A and V2B? Those are a bridged-T filter and will create a mid-scoop. Subjectively, signal strength is also lost. So Traynor configured V2B for some gain (but not a lot), then has the tone controls. So that's 2 stages of tone-shaping, one fixed and one variable.

The other versions in the set of schematics you posted do not include the bridged-T filter of fixed tone shaping. I presume Traynor felt there was less signal loss in those versions. So Traynor configured V2B as a cathode follower to drive the tone controls. No loss means you don't need the make-up gain.

Could you take your version and move the output to the cathode? Yes, but you'd have to actually put in a 68kΩ resistor in place of that 6.8kΩ, because output signal level would be too tiny to drive the output stage otherwise. You'd also no longer have the make-up gain from V2B and still have the bridged-T filter, so even after conversion of V2B your amp would likely seem to have lost gain.
Title: Re: Tonestack Bassmaster
Post by: sluckey on May 03, 2014, 02:34:54 pm
I first looked in KOC Vol 3-book
and there it is 68k 2k2 and 68k
and in text its written, "configured like a concertina splitter"
That may be, but page 9 of the schematics you posted shows a 6.8K. Or someone has a leaky pen!   :icon_biggrin:
Title: Re: Tonestack Bassmaster
Post by: Mats on May 03, 2014, 02:45:41 pm
Yes
6k8 it is, page 9
"leaky pen " :icon_biggrin: 
Title: Re: Tonestack Bassmaster
Post by: jbrew73 on May 03, 2014, 08:02:43 pm
i believe Ampeg used a similar arrangement   on the V4BH.