Hoffman Amplifiers Tube Amplifier Forum

Amp Stuff => Tube Amp Building - Tweaks - Repairs => Topic started by: lego4040 on January 09, 2015, 02:50:51 pm

Title: Spin Off of 2015 list (5E9-A) Im gonna build the 5G9 instead
Post by: lego4040 on January 09, 2015, 02:50:51 pm
So Id like to give that 5E9-A a shot. Here is a older thread from here http://el34world.com/Forum/index.php?topic=16303.0 (http://el34world.com/Forum/index.php?topic=16303.0)  and here is a great thread following a build http://www.thegearpage.net/board/showthread.php?t=1207200 (http://www.thegearpage.net/board/showthread.php?t=1207200) .WIth the Hammond 290Cax I still have in the box I hope I can use this PT. Its 330-0-330 @ 115ma or (275-0-275 with lower B+taps)/6.3v @2A and 5v@2A. . I can use the 5E5A chassis(which has same holes but would have a different cover plate)or a kit and change board and various part changes.
I will do what I usually which is researching and take advice. I like the 5E5A for th3 15" can you hear me know speaker. The Rectifier on the 5E5A is the 5u4G and has the 6L6's instead off 6V6's(That could work?)
Im willing to build this and post project And get more people interseted in building like the AC 15 took off
Title: Re: Spin Off of 2015 list (5E9-A)
Post by: Willabe on January 09, 2015, 04:40:12 pm
WIth the Hammond 290Cax I still have in the box I hope I can use this PT. Its 330-0-330 @ 115ma or (275-0-275 with lower B+taps)/6.3v @2A and 5v@2A.

I like the 5E5A for th3 15" can you hear me know speaker. The Rectifier on the 5E5A is the 5u4G and has the 6L6's instead off 6V6's(That could work?)

6l6's need .9A for heaters, so 2x.9=1.8A, only 200mA left for 3x12 _ _ 7. They need 300mA each so .9A. 5E5A needs at least 2.7A's for heater. 5U4GB needs 3A for it's heater, your PT only has 2A.

Also not enough B+ current for a 5E5A with 2x6L6. That's a ~35w amp.

If your thinking about building a 5E9A you might want to consider a 5G9 instead? I built a 5G9 and love it!!!!!! I like it more then my 5E3 tweed Deluxe, way better!


                       Brad     :icon_biggrin:
Title: Re: Spin Off of 2015 list (5E9-A)
Post by: lego4040 on January 09, 2015, 06:01:18 pm
 :thumbsup: not only was I watching videos of both the 5e9-a & 5G9 but Rory Gallagher's Irish Tour on my commute home. I see your a fan by your avatar. You have a BOM list floating around? I understand both are great amps and the few I saw William Yates(Red Jones Ams) testing was of the hook
Title: Re: Spin Off of 2015 list (5E9-A)
Post by: Willabe on January 09, 2015, 06:42:12 pm
Rory who?     :dontknow:

oh now you did it, you put a quarter in the juke box.    :l2:

Are you kiddin me! Irish Tour!  1 of the best live recordings of a guitar player/singer and his band ever made, well, IMO.    :blob8:
That DVD, I think they messed it up, they should have just had a camera out front so you could see Rory and his band and leave it at that.    :BangHead:       :cussing:

I saw him play a few times and the 1st time was at the Aragon Ballroom in Chgo., early 76'. He was at the hight of his abilities IMO.
   

I met him a few times and had a few bears with him in a couple of blues clubs I used to hang and play in, very nice guy, respectful, a true gentleman and not blasted out of his mind. Didn't talk about himself, liked to talk shop about the older blues guys.


                     Brad       :icon_biggrin:   
Title: Re: Spin Off of 2015 list (5E9-A)
Post by: Willabe on January 09, 2015, 06:50:03 pm
You have a BOM list floating around?

Sorry, no. I keep a lot of parts so I don't make a BOM.

It's not a large circuit, wont be hard for you to make a list if you decide to build it. Front end preamp is a tweed Deluxe 5E3 exactly.

Like I said I have not built a 5E9A but I did build both a tweed Deluxe 5E3 and the tweed Tremolux 5G9. I much prefer the 5G9.

I did a thread on the 5G9 that has schematics and my layout drawings plus pictures, do a search.


                      Brad     :icon_biggrin:
Title: Re: Spin Off of 2015 list (5E9-A)
Post by: lego4040 on January 09, 2015, 07:52:55 pm
Sorry I wasn't clearer, I meant a list of things for the 5G9 you built.  I will do a search tonight. I was turned onto Rory 25yrs ago and was blown away. So many guys like him who deserve to be on that top 10 list, ex: Robin Trower, Frank Marino, Pat Travers....... I will look you up for that build. Thanks for the help. I just built built a amp for my stereo and I cant wait to put my 30yr old Trower live album on it
Title: Re: Spin Off of 2015 list (5E9-A)
Post by: Willabe on January 09, 2015, 08:02:26 pm
Sorry I wasn't clearer, I meant a list of things for the 5G9 you built. 

No, I didn't make a BOM for the 5G9. I keep most of the R's/C's/pots, ect. on hand, so I don't usually make a BOM.


                Brad     :icon_biggrin:

 
Title: Re: Spin Off of 2015 list (5E9-A)
Post by: lego4040 on January 09, 2015, 08:20:08 pm
I found your old thread  :thumbsup: thanks mate. Lots of reading and parts hunting to do. Doug sells the board here for the 5E9 but I'm sure since there is a layout I can get a 5g9. The greater Blues man I got to meet and chat with was Clarence Gatmouth Brown years ago at the Kit Kat club here in NYC
Title: Re: Spin Off of 2015 list (5E9-A)
Post by: Willabe on January 09, 2015, 08:34:51 pm
Yeah Gatemouth was great!

I saw him up close (~25'?) in a club that held ~350(?) in the early 90's(?) playin on his Firebird. He still had it.


                  Brad     :icon_biggrin:
Title: Re: Spin Off of 2015 list (5E9-A)
Post by: Willabe on January 09, 2015, 09:02:53 pm
I found your old thread  :thumbsup: thanks mate.

I can't find it, will you please post the link? 


                Brad    :laugh:
Title: Re: Spin Off of 2015 list (5E9-A)
Post by: lego4040 on January 09, 2015, 09:45:53 pm
Hopefully this is it, maybe we can get Another project going. This is what I found http://el34world.com/Forum/index.php?topic=13912.0 (http://el34world.com/Forum/index.php?topic=13912.0)
Title: Re: Spin Off of 2015 list (5E9-A)
Post by: Willabe on January 09, 2015, 10:10:38 pm
Yep, that's it, thank you.


               Brad     :icon_biggrin:
Title: Re: Spin Off of 2015 list (5E9-A) Im gonna build the 5G9 instead
Post by: lego4040 on January 10, 2015, 09:43:20 am
I'll Be The Guinea Pig and hopefully we can get a 5G9 going. I will have about a $900.00 budget to start and I'd like to keep that here with Doug's business. I know he doesn't sell the chassis or cabinet and speaker but that's OK. I think I'll use the 5E5-A 1x12 or 15" because that chassis will work and its the narrow tweed cab and correct size speaker I believe. I'd love all the input like the Vox build, Between Sluckey, Ed, Doug, etc.... We got a legit AC 15 build with people building them now. This is what Id like to do again with the 5G9 :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:  So I will contact Doug on making me a 5G9 eyelet board on the turret board material. Start a BOM(I will Gladly take all recommendations on Parts) keeping as much parts as possible this site. Time to go and do weekend things(errands) Tonight hopefully I'll do some ordereing
Title: Re: Spin Off of 2015 list (5E9-A)
Post by: Ed_Chambley on January 10, 2015, 10:44:31 am
Yeah Gatemouth was great!

I saw him up close (~25'?) in a club that held ~350(?) in the early 90's(?) playin on his Firebird. He still had it.


                  Brad     :icon_biggrin:
Would you believe that I played with him many times at a old blues club we used to have here in Atlanta.  The place was called The Northside Tavern.  Tinsley Ellis is a great friend and I played with him often in the old days and another guy I cant remember his last mane, but his first name is Johnny and he always played a Gold Glitter Telecaster.

Anyway, the only thing with Gatemouth is he would do the teeth playing a tad to often IMO.  Seems like if any new people came in the club he would do it again. 

I have a 5G9 I built on Brad's advice, but I do not have tremolo since I just converted another build on it.  I think it needs tremolo, but you have a Revibe.  I dont know what the difference is in the tremolo hitting the front or mixed later in the circuit.

  Great sounding amp through a Alnico 12, but I have a JBL130 Mine is a D-130 but I like the E-130 too.  It is a 15 inch speaker.

I have a 5E5 pro circuit I have put together  on my bench right now.  It is really nice I have to say.  It has a 6K primary at 8 ohms on the OT and I believe this is the one that is 35 watts.  I thought the 5E5a was the 40 watt.

If you are want a tweed with a sweet tone the 5G9 is great, if you want that tweed roar build the Pro IMO.
Title: Re: Spin Off of 2015 list (5E9-A) Im gonna build the 5G9 instead
Post by: Ed_Chambley on January 10, 2015, 10:51:36 am
I'll Be The Guinea Pig and hopefully we can get a 5G9 going. I will have about a $900.00 budget to start and I'd like to keep that here with Doug's business. I know he doesn't sell the chassis or cabinet and speaker but that's OK. I think I'll use the 5E5-A 1x12 or 15" because that chassis will work and its the narrow tweed cab and correct size speaker I believe. I'd love all the input like the Vox build, Between Sluckey, Ed, Doug, etc.... We got a legit AC 15 build with people building them now. This is what Id like to do again with the 5G9 :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:  So I will contact Doug on making me a 5G9 eyelet board on the turret board material. Start a BOM(I will Gladly take all recommendations on Parts) keeping as much parts as possible this site. Time to go and do weekend things(errands) Tonight hopefully I'll do some ordereing
Notice Brad made a different layout and used Panasonic radials. Very cool layout and a smudge  :icon_biggrin: different from the original.

Title: Re: Spin Off of 2015 list (5E9-A)
Post by: Willabe on January 10, 2015, 12:22:22 pm
Would you believe that I played with him many times at a old blues club we used to have here in Atlanta.  The place was called The Northside Tavern.  Tinsley Ellis is a great friend and I played with him often in the old days and another guy I cant remember his last mane, but his first name is Johnny and he always played a Gold Glitter Telecaster.

Wow! Nice!!!!!!    :blob8: 

I have a 5G9 I built 

Ed, what do think about any difference in sound between a 5E3 and the 5G9?  I know you've played through both.   :think1:

I dont know what the difference is in the tremolo hitting the front or mixed later in the circuit.

That's a very good question.

TQR mag. has reviewed a number of old Gibby (and other new) amps that had trem injected into different points of the circuit. They said that some of them that had the trem at the 1st preamp tube sounded great, with a 'deep throb'.

Our friend Tubeswell loves the Fender 5G9 and 6G16 and has built both. Say's their the king of tube trems. I don't know if he's built a trem amp where it was injected at the 1st preamp tube?

I have a 5E5 pro circuit I have put together  on my bench right now.  It is really nice I have to say.  It has a 6K primary at 8 ohms on the OT and I believe this is the one that is 35 watts.  I thought the 5E5a was the 40 watt.

5E5 was a tweed Deluxe but with 6l6's, 30w, 5E5A was a 35w, same/close to Bandmaster 5E7, Bassman 5D6A/5E6/5E6A, had 2x5U4 rect. and 5D8/5E8A, had 2x5U4 rect. and 4x6L6's. All had different size/# of speakers. This is the amp series Gibson copied some of their (later model) GA77/70 from.


                      Brad     :icon_biggrin:
Title: Re: Spin Off of 2015 list (5E9-A) Im gonna build the 5G9 instead
Post by: Ed_Chambley on January 10, 2015, 12:53:47 pm
5E5 was a tweed Deluxe but with 6l6's, 30w, 5E5A was a 35w, same/close to Bandmaster 5E7, Bassman 5D6A/5E6/5E6A, had 2x5U4 rect. and 5D8/5E8A, had 2x5U4 rect. and 4x6L6's. All had different size/# of speakers. This is the amp series Gibson copied some of their (later model) GA77/70 from

I have to respectfully disagree.

From Ampwares:
Fender Pro
 Model/Circuit Number: 5E5 (55), 5E5-A (56-60)
 Years of Production:
1955-1960
 Era: Narrow Panel
 Configuration: Combo
 Controls: Chrome top facing w/ white screened labels, controls numbered 1-12
 Knobs: Black Chicken Head
 Faceplate
  Cabinet
 
Protect your amp with aFender Pro (Narrow Panel) Style Cover (http://www.mojotone.com/amp-parts/amp-covers/Mojotone-Tweed-Pro-Cover?utm_source=TheAmpGuide&utm_medium=amp.asp&utm_campaign=AmpCover&utm_term=Fender_Pro%20%28Narrow%20Panel%29)
 
Covering Material
  Logo: Cabinet mounted, Script
 Weight:
 Speaker
  Effects: None
 ~Watts: 35-40 Watts
 Tubes
  Bias: 5E5: Cathode biased 5E5-A: Fixed bias, nonadjustable
 Rectifier: 5U4GA
Comments: * Model 5E5 had the negative feedback loop is removed. * Model 5E5-A returned the negative feedback loop with the addition of the Presence control. * A selenium rectifier is used in model 5E5-A’s bias circuit.


 
Title: Re: Spin Off of 2015 list (5E9-A) Im gonna build the 5G9 instead
Post by: Ed_Chambley on January 10, 2015, 01:01:28 pm
Ed, what do think about any difference in sound between a 5E3 and the 5G9?  I know you've played through both.   (http://el34world.com/Forum/Smileys/default/smiley-think004.gif)

The 5G9 handles humbuckers a LOT better in the stock form.  Don't know why as I have never compared the schematics.  The tone is more focused as the bottom is not as greasy.  Smooth distortion and moves into distortion slower, more gradual.
Title: Re: Spin Off of 2015 list (5E9-A) Im gonna build the 5G9 instead
Post by: Willabe on January 10, 2015, 01:02:38 pm
Notice Brad made a different layout and used Panasonic radials. Very cool layout and a smudge  :icon_biggrin: different from the original.

I'd definitely change some of that layout now that I see it in real life and not on a computer screen.    :laugh:

I think it was pretty good and it works fine but I know I could make it a little better and a little easer to wire up.

1. I started with a -bias/balance that didn't work because of the -bias trem. Sluckey and Ed came up with a good way to do a dual -bias that Ed put in at least 1 amp build he did and it worked great for him.

2. I did most of the LFO and it's driver as point to point to keep the wiring as short as possible and I did not like wiring that up at all!    :BangHead:     :cussing:

Now I would definitely look at Sluckeys layout for the LFO/driver on his Vox AC15 and see if I could use that as it's a proven circuit layout! Sooooo much easer to wire up! It might have to be altered a little for the Fender circuit but their pretty close IIRC, so shouldn't be hard to do as it's 90% to 95% the same?

3. I'd change the B+ 2x 20uF caps, 1 for each 1st preamp plate to a single 10uF or an 8uF cap. My reasoning on doing it the way I did was off and not needed.

4. There's some little things I'd move a little this way or that way, nothing major.

That's what I can think of off the top of my head.


                            Brad      :icon_biggrin: 
Title: Re: Spin Off of 2015 list (5E9-A) Im gonna build the 5G9 instead
Post by: Willabe on January 10, 2015, 01:20:36 pm
The 5G9 handles humbuckers a LOT better in the stock form.  Don't know why as I have never compared the schematics.  The tone is more focused as the bottom is not as greasy.  Smooth distortion and moves into distortion slower, more gradual.

That's pretty much how I hear it too and why I like it much better than my 5E3.    :icon_biggrin:

Plus it's got killer TREM!    :blob8:

Slap a Fender stand alone reverb in the front and woooooow! Killer rig!!!!!!

Funny thing when TQR mag. reviewed the old GA77 they bought they said it reminded them a lot of the old G5G9 they had bought. Hmmmmm........   

1. Front end preamp is exact for both, including the 2x (interactive) volume controls and single tone control.

2. PI's are different. 5E3 is a concertina, 5G9 is a LTPI.

3. 5E3 is cathode biased, the 5G9 is -bias.

4. 5E3 uses a 5Y3 rectifier tube and the 5G9 uses a 5U4.

5. 5E3 has a little less B+ filtering and the 5G9 has a little more B+ filtering and a choke.

6. B+ voltages are not that different, IIRC?

7. Neither amp uses NFB.


                       Brad     :think1:
Title: Re: Spin Off of 2015 list (5E9-A) Im gonna build the 5G9 instead
Post by: VMS on January 10, 2015, 03:12:39 pm

  8. 5G9 uses .02 coupling caps to power tubes, 5E3 has .100 caps

Title: Re: Spin Off of 2015 list (5E9-A) Im gonna build the 5G9 instead
Post by: Willabe on January 10, 2015, 06:25:47 pm
Good catch.


              Brad    :icon_biggrin:
Title: Re: Spin Off of 2015 list (5E9-A) Im gonna build the 5G9 instead
Post by: lego4040 on January 10, 2015, 10:08:45 pm
Here is a Google doc spread sheet I start but haven't finished. If you have part#'s you would like me to add from different mfr's (PT/OT/CHOKE)as an example, I will add it to list. I'd Like to be able to share and have someone else be able to build one as well
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1JQudceIz6xeLsOiIxg76MWDUk9usP0VcYBe5Qmlnxls/edit?usp=sharing
Title: Re: Spin Off of 2015 list (5E9-A) Im gonna build the 5G9 instead
Post by: Willabe on January 10, 2015, 11:47:52 pm
Here is a Google doc spread sheet I start but haven't finished.


Very nice.   :icon_biggrin:

If you have part#'s you would like me to add from different mfr's (PT/OT/CHOKE)as an example, I will add it to list. 

That's the thing, what iron set?

I used Merc. Mag. because I wanted to get pretty close for my build, but most guys probably will want to use a less expensive set of iron. Which is fine and will work just as well or better. I'm still hoping on building a few more to sell, so I'd be interested to find a different set.

Doug's 6V6 choke will work great and is shielded, steel bell ends. His Fender style Princeton or Deluxe reverb OT should work great and they are both shielded as well.

So you have to figure out what PT mainly.

Amp PT needs at least;

Fender schemo says, 300-0-300 B+ secondary, 370dcv at 1st B+ node, OT CT feed, a little more wont hurt, but at what current? It's a 15/20w amp, so, a 100mA to 120mA? And a 50acv to 60acv bias tap would make things easy.

(It's pretty much a 5E9A tweed Tremolux or a brown(?) Princeton 6G2, both have same tube count, but who makes those and B+ is different, so is the rectifier current, so....... or a 5E3 tweed Deluxe without trem is close, 1 less 12 _ _ 7 and only 2A for rectifier heater. Princeton AA964 B+ is 50dcv higher at B+ 1st node and only has 2A for 5v rectifier heater and 1 less 12 _ _ 7.)   

3A@5v for 5U4GB rectifier tube. (Although switching to a GZ34/5AR4 might make things easer?)

1.8A@6.3 for tube heaters, 2x6V6= .9A (4.5A each), 3x12 _ _ 7= .9A (300mA each)

Tomorrow I'll take some voltage readings on my 5G9 and 5E3 and post them just for a reference.


                          Brad     :think1:
Title: Re: Spin Off of 2015 list (5E9-A) Im gonna build the 5G9 instead
Post by: Ed_Chambley on January 11, 2015, 09:08:23 am
Any tried a Master Volume PPIMV or other?

How about an effects loop.  The amp is very simple and had a great tone, s each could be switchable.  The 5G9 has to be played at a little higher volume to get the goods from it and modulation pedals like Chorus do not sound as good hitting the front.

Seems the 5G9 is more mid focused which will make it love overdrive pedals, especially boost pedals.  I have noticed the gain in V1, like 12AY7 trending to the lower gain makes it so you can hit it harder.

The Iron I used was an old Thodarson  NOS  300-0-300, 120ma / 6.3 @ 2a / 5v @ 3

I used a OT from a Hammond tone cabinet.  Don't know the Manufacturer, but it is 10K/8ohm and it had a great tone.  I tried a Stancor 6k6 / 8 ohm, too much too clean.

Title: Re: Spin Off of 2015 list (5E9-A) Im gonna build the 5G9 instead
Post by: lego4040 on January 11, 2015, 09:23:06 am
I will write those numbers down and do some research today. My 4 year old daughter just got over being sick and in the hospital and my 8 year old daughter woke up in the middle off the night throwing up
Title: Re: Spin Off of 2015 list (5E9-A) Im gonna build the 5G9 instead
Post by: Willabe on January 11, 2015, 10:21:22 am
Thanks Ed, this is good stuff to know. I went to bed last night and thought, Doh, ask Ed what he used for iron.   :laugh:

The Iron I used was an old Thodarson  NOS  300-0-300, 120ma / 6.3 @ 2a / 5v @ 3

Bingo!     :laugh:

What dcv did you end up with at the 1st B+ node? And did/are you using a 5U4 rectifier?

I used a OT from a Hammond tone cabinet.  Don't know the Manufacturer, but it is 10K/8ohm and it had a great tone.  I tried a Stancor 6k6 / 8 ohm, too much too clean.

Huh........ was the Stancor 6K6 bigger than a standard knock off Fender BF Deluxe reverb OT? How about the tone cab OT, bigger then a BF Deluxe?

That's why I like it better then my 5E3, it's cleaner.   


                                  Brad     :icon_biggrin:
Title: Re: Spin Off of 2015 list (5E9-A) Im gonna build the 5G9 instead
Post by: Willabe on January 11, 2015, 10:26:14 am
I will write those numbers down and do some research today. My 4 year old daughter just got over being sick and in the hospital and my 8 year old daughter woke up in the middle off the night throwing up

Oh man, forget us and this amp stuff, take care of them for now. The thread can wait, it'll still be here when their both better.


                Brad    :icon_biggrin:
Title: Re: Spin Off of 2015 list (5E9-A) Im gonna build the 5G9 instead
Post by: lego4040 on January 11, 2015, 03:22:37 pm
Daughter work up with fever dreams while I was putting this together,So this is what I got on transformer sets.
From Here at Hoffman's: PT=Deluxe 041316, OT=Heyboer Output Deluxe, Choke= Small Fender
125C3A
Mercury Magnetics: PT=FTTP-M, OT=FTTO, Choke=FC-TTREM
From ClassicTone: PT=40-18041, OT=40-18090, Choke=40-18040
If someone else can help me verify these I will add to the spread sheet :icon_biggrin:
This bundle set from triode looks right and the price is right http://www.triodeelectronics.com/deluxeppbundle.html (http://www.triodeelectronics.com/deluxeppbundle.html)this one has lower B+300-0-300 option. Seems Classictone has Lots of options
Title: Re: Spin Off of 2015 list (5E9-A) Im gonna build the 5G9 instead
Post by: Willabe on January 11, 2015, 06:53:26 pm
Doug's Deluxe PT only has 2A@5acv for rect. heater, maybe a 5V4 would lower the B+ dcv a little closer to the 370dcv B+ Fender list's? Might work nice. 

Link for Triodes classic tone Deluxe PT spec sheet below, has 3A@5acv rect. heater. Look at the bottom left corner it gives loaded B+ dcv's for GZ34/5AR4/5Y3/5U4 rectifier tubes, are the 5Y3 and 5U4 dcv's flipped? Might work.
 
http://www.classictone.net/40-18016.pdf (http://www.classictone.net/40-18016.pdf)


               Brad     :icon_biggrin:
Title: Re: Spin Off of 2015 list (5E9-A) Im gonna build the 5G9 instead
Post by: lego4040 on January 11, 2015, 07:47:21 pm
I used the current calculator and your right, those numbers might be flipped. The 5y3 was less then the 5u4gb. This model http://www.classictone.net/40-18028.pdf (http://www.classictone.net/40-18028.pdf) has 375B+ using 330-0-330 & -50 bias tap & I believe enough amps for the 6.3 volt & 5 volt heaters. If this is good I'll stop looking for that part and move on to next. So the -50v bias goes to a 1n4007(since sel rectifier) are no longer. Like this
Title: Re: Spin Off of 2015 list (5E9-A) Im gonna build the 5G9 instead
Post by: Willabe on January 11, 2015, 08:40:48 pm
I used the current calculator and your right, those numbers might be flipped. The 5y3 was less then the 5u4gb.

Yeah, 1 of my tube books (GE) say's;

5Y3G/GA/GT, tube voltage drop, 60v@125mA for all 3 versions.

5U4G/GA,      tube voltage drop, 44v@225mA for both

5U4GB,          tube voltage drop, 50v@275mA

So, since the dcv's listed on the Classic Tone spec sheet are for 120mA any of the 5U4's at ~1/2 their current ability should drop way less then a 5Y3 mA limit.

I believe enough amps for the 6.3 volt & 5 volt heaters.

Yes.

So the -50v bias goes to a 1n4007(since sel rectifier) are no longer.

Yes, the ss 1n4007 replaces the old style selenium rectifier.

The PT you just linked to looks like another good possibility for ~370 B+ with a 5U4 and 300-0-300 taps, might need to use a different rectifier tube? The B+ dcv's they list are at 120mA current so at idol (which is what the Fender specs are) will be higher.

How much?    :dontknow:


                      Brad    :icon_biggrin: 
Title: Re: Spin Off of 2015 list (5E9-A) Im gonna build the 5G9 instead
Post by: lego4040 on January 11, 2015, 10:01:39 pm
Added Transformers to Document that I think will work. The Mercs will for sure, It was put in a build that was on another site
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1JQudceIz6xeLsOiIxg76MWDUk9usP0VcYBe5Qmlnxls/edit?usp=sharing
Comments most welcome!!!!!! :sleepy2: Gnite
Title: Re: Spin Off of 2015 list (5E9-A) Im gonna build the 5G9 instead
Post by: lego4040 on January 12, 2015, 02:58:29 pm
For the .03uf-400v capacitor in this build, what would you recommend to use? Schem shows +270vdc going through, I can only find Jupiter cap$$$ or I could stack .02&.01in parallel to get the .03. Also the .005 on the tone cap to ground. I'll will use a silver mica that goes from tone to vol pot though
Title: Re: Spin Off of 2015 list (5E9-A) Im gonna build the 5G9 instead
Post by: Ed_Chambley on January 12, 2015, 03:08:02 pm
For the .03uf-400v capacitor in this build, what would you recommend to use? Schem shows +270vdc going through, I can only find Jupiter cap$$$ or I could stack .02&.01in parallel to get the .03. Also the .005 on the tone cap to ground. I'll will use a silver mica that goes from tone to vol pot though
Doug has a .033uf/630v Orange drop.
Title: Re: Spin Off of 2015 list (5E9-A) Im gonna build the 5G9 instead
Post by: sluckey on January 12, 2015, 04:43:22 pm
I'd use the same as we used in the AC15. It's the cute little blue Xicon chicklet that Doug sells. Doug also has it in ODs and M150s.
Title: Re: Spin Off of 2015 list (5E9-A) Im gonna build the 5G9 instead
Post by: lego4040 on January 12, 2015, 04:55:50 pm
Thanks Ed, I would guess the blue chicklet  .0047uf for the .005. I'll try and get the caps and resistors on the document tonight. The 1 watt resistors on the sockets I'll bump up to 3watts as well as the 10k off the choke and the 100k I'll be using in series with the IN4007
Title: Re: Spin Off of 2015 list (5E9-A) Im gonna build the 5G9 instead
Post by: lego4040 on January 12, 2015, 04:58:03 pm
Next step is find and draw out the bias pot mod
Title: Re: Spin Off of 2015 list (5E9-A) Im gonna build the 5G9 instead
Post by: Willabe on January 12, 2015, 05:48:32 pm
For the .03uf-400v capacitor in this build, what would you recommend to use?

The 3 caps in the LFO, 2x.01, 1@.03, you can juggle those values.

You can do what Sluckey said or you can make the 1@.03 a .02 and change 1 of the .01's to a .02, adds up the same.

That's what I did. You can use all ceramic disk caps for those caps.


                               Brad     :icon_biggrin:
Title: Re: Spin Off of 2015 list (5E9-A) Im gonna build the 5G9 instead
Post by: Willabe on January 12, 2015, 05:56:30 pm
The 1 watt resistors on the sockets I'll bump up to 3watts........ and the 100k I'll be using in series with the IN4007

I see 82K for the series dropping R in the -bias supply. There's really no current draw in the -bias circuit so a 1w MF FP(metal film, flame proof) should be plenty.


                  Brad     :icon_biggrin:     
Title: Re: Spin Off of 2015 list (5E9-A) Im gonna build the 5G9 instead
Post by: DummyLoad on January 12, 2015, 05:57:51 pm
hammond 272DX will work.


--pete
Title: Re: Spin Off of 2015 list (5E9-A) Im gonna build the 5G9 instead
Post by: Willabe on January 12, 2015, 06:05:01 pm
Oh, I see, 100K in the in the hand written note on the Fender schemo.   

You don't need that. Just change the old selenium rectifier to a ss type, 1N4007 will work fine.


                    Brad     :icon_biggrin:

Title: Re: Spin Off of 2015 list (5E9-A) Im gonna build the 5G9 instead
Post by: lego4040 on January 12, 2015, 09:20:04 pm
No 100k, gotcha. It was on one thread that I read should the diode go bad and let let voltage back the wrong way. I started looking at the Hammonds fender cross references on my way home tonight but didn't finish
Title: Re: Spin Off of 2015 list (5E9-A) Im gonna build the 5G9 instead
Post by: lego4040 on January 12, 2015, 10:38:19 pm
Something like this for the Biasing?
Title: Re: Spin Off of 2015 list (5E9-A) Im gonna build the 5G9 instead
Post by: lego4040 on January 13, 2015, 10:03:06 am
I didn't see a 50v bias tap on that 272dx, this one looks about right
http://www.hammondmfg.com/pdf/EDB372FX.pdf. (http://www.hammondmfg.com/pdf/EDB372FX.pdf.) It's 120$ at mouser
Title: Re: Spin Off of 2015 list (5E9-A) Im gonna build the 5G9 instead
Post by: DummyLoad on January 13, 2015, 10:41:07 am
2xx hammonds don't have a bias tap and are 120V (115/125) and they cost less than their 3xx counterparts. also, the 3xx has an expanded line (higher VA offerings) on some voltage ranges.


i forgot that point. use the 3xx series to keep the bias ckt. the same as the fender plan.


--pete
Title: Re: Spin Off of 2015 list (5E9-A) Im gonna build the 5G9 instead
Post by: sluckey on January 13, 2015, 10:42:40 am
That 18K needs to be in SERIES with the bias pot. Otherwise, when you crank the bias pot to one end, you will put a dead short on your bias voltage. The tubes will not like that.

I would also put a 470Ω/1W resistor in series with the diode, just like Fender did on so many of their blackface amps.
Title: Re: Spin Off of 2015 list (5E9-A) Im gonna build the 5G9 instead
Post by: DummyLoad on January 13, 2015, 10:45:09 am
I didn't see a 50v bias tap on that 272dx, this one looks about right
http://www.hammondmfg.com/pdf/EDB372FX.pdf. (http://www.hammondmfg.com/pdf/EDB372FX.pdf.) It's 120$ at mouser

99 bux at angela instruments. i buy some stuff from them. no complaints. 

http://www.angela.com/search.aspx?find=372DX&log=false&category=10 (http://www.angela.com/search.aspx?find=372DX&log=false&category=10)


--pete
Title: Re: Spin Off of 2015 list (5E9-A) Im gonna build the 5G9 instead
Post by: sluckey on January 13, 2015, 10:52:55 am
Why are you considering another PT? I'd use that Hammond 290Cax that you already have.
Title: Re: Spin Off of 2015 list (5E9-A) Im gonna build the 5G9 instead
Post by: lego4040 on January 13, 2015, 02:50:30 pm
 :sleepy2: capacitors/resistors and that damn Ohms Law. I gotta look back in the threads why I was looking(besides alternatives)That's tight Wallibe mentioned that the 6.3 or the 5volt didn't have enough amperage. The ratings for 6.3g and 5v was only 2 amps and it doesn't have a -50 bias tap but this is the ratings in my AllenAmp TP made by Heyboer that's sitting on my shelf if rated at 310V-0-310V @ 150ma, 6.3V at 4.5A, 5V at 2A with a 50v tap, how's that look Steve
Title: Re: Spin Off of 2015 list (5E9-A) Im gonna build the 5G9 instead
Post by: lego4040 on January 13, 2015, 03:06:06 pm
Correction made, thanks Steve
Title: Re: Spin Off of 2015 list (5E9-A) Im gonna build the 5G9 instead
Post by: sluckey on January 13, 2015, 03:59:24 pm
Hammond 290Cax...
   6.3v/2a is perfect for this amp.
   5v @ 2a is fine too, just don't use a 5U4. Plenty of other 5xxx rectifiers to choose from.
   The choice of which HT winding to use can be a plus factor.
   You don't need a bias tap to develop bias voltage. Look at the Princeton Reverb.
   You already got it!

The Allen PT looks good too, but it won't do a 5U4 either. 6.3v @ 4.5a is overkill, but works fine. Does anyone even use 5U4s anymore?

Title: Re: Spin Off of 2015 list (5E9-A) Im gonna build the 5G9 instead
Post by: lego4040 on January 13, 2015, 04:11:30 pm
I was just looking and will swap rectifier to a 5y3, done. Hammond 290cax it is. I will put that on the spread sheet. I hope to work on sheet more tonight but my main goal is to have my board/ resistors and some others ordered tonight. I'd love to get this 100% done and give everyone here a chance to build with out having to go crazy sourcing parts. Stomach virus going thru house past week just put my Kids nanny out of commission
Title: Re: Spin Off of 2015 list (5E9-A) Im gonna build the 5G9 instead
Post by: Willabe on January 13, 2015, 04:14:44 pm
That's tight Wallibe mentioned that the 6.3 or the 5volt didn't have enough amperage.

So now I'm Wallaby, or how ever you spelled it?     :laugh:

You need 3A's for a 5U4, but you can use a GZ34/5AR4 or a 5V4 with a 2A wind. Might be fine.    :dontknow:


             Brad     :icon_biggrin:

Edit; I see I'm late with this.
Title: Re: Spin Off of 2015 list (5E9-A) Im gonna build the 5G9 instead
Post by: lego4040 on January 13, 2015, 04:50:21 pm
 :lipsrsealed: Willibe, sorry.
Title: Re: Spin Off of 2015 list (5E9-A) Im gonna build the 5G9 instead
Post by: Willabe on January 13, 2015, 09:17:09 pm
No problem, I'm just jokin with ya.


         Brad     :icon_biggrin:
Title: Re: Spin Off of 2015 list (5E9-A) Im gonna build the 5G9 instead
Post by: lego4040 on January 14, 2015, 12:09:39 pm
ordering parts now, I have a question on the speed pot for this circuit. I will replace the 2mra and use the 3mra, should I wire it like the rest of the fenders here with leg2 going to 100k to ground?
Title: Re: Spin Off of 2015 list (5E9-A) Im gonna build the 5G9 instead
Post by: sluckey on January 14, 2015, 12:28:59 pm
It'll work equally well either way. Even so, if I was building a 5G9 I'd follow the 5G9 schematic.
Title: Re: Spin Off of 2015 list (5E9-A) Im gonna build the 5G9 instead
Post by: lego4040 on January 14, 2015, 01:24:05 pm
The only reason why I am changing that to a 3mra is because I cant locate one :cry:
Title: Re: Spin Off of 2015 list (5E9-A) Im gonna build the 5G9 instead
Post by: Willabe on January 14, 2015, 01:47:26 pm
to a 3mra

Not to be a nit picker, but - m = mili , - M = Meg

The 3MRA pot will be fine and if anything will slow down the trem speed a hair? It's what I have in mine.


                 Brad    :icon_biggrin:
Title: Re: Spin Off of 2015 list (5E9-A) Im gonna build the 5G9 instead
Post by: sluckey on January 14, 2015, 02:24:27 pm
The only reason why I am changing that to a 3mra is because I cant locate one :cry:
I know that. My answer pertains to your question about how to wire the pot.
Title: Re: Spin Off of 2015 list (5E9-A) Im gonna build the 5G9 instead
Post by: lego4040 on January 14, 2015, 02:25:58 pm
Ah I see Steve, I will do that. Doug says he'll make the Board on natural color turret :worthy1:
Title: Re: Spin Off of 2015 list (5E9-A) Im gonna build the 5G9 instead
Post by: Willabe on January 14, 2015, 03:16:00 pm
Hammond 290Cax...
   6.3v/2a is perfect for this amp.
   5v @ 2a is fine too, just don't use a 5U4. Plenty of other 5xxx rectifiers to choose from.
   The choice of which HT winding to use can be a plus factor.

Sluckey's right of course.  :icon_biggrin:

I bought the Merc Mags iron to get pretty close to the old 5G9 power supply (PSU) voltages and current plus the 5U4 rectifier, but that doesn't mean you can't do it other ways with other iron and rectifier tubes. And I already have a 5E3 I built with a 5Y3 rectifier in it. I wanted to hear/play a PP 6V6 15/20w amp with a possibly little 'stiffer' PSU (5U4) to hopefully hear what a 5G9 sounds like. I wanted something a little cleaner but still with the tweed warmth and the trem was a HUGE bonus!

I was also very curious what difference in sound and feel the -bias output stage and LTPI would make compared to the K bias and concertina with the same pre and same 12" speaker. For me I like the 5G9 much better and I think a LOT of guys, but not all, would too!

I also think that IF G. Weber would have talked about them as much as he did other Fender tweed amps in Vintage Guitar Mag. and/or Mark B. at Victoria amps would have been making them early on and had a chassis made and sold it/gave it to Mojo music it would be a very different story right now.   :icon_biggrin:  It wasn't 1 of the classic amps that were cloned early on, so you couldn't just buy a pre punched chassis, eyelet board, iron set and cab for it.     

Anyway, did Leo switch from a 5Y3 in the tweed deluxe 5E3 and tweed Tremolux 5E9A to a 5U4 in the 5G9 for a little cleaner, stiffer PSU? Was he experimenting? Or got a deal on them? All of the above?  :dontknow:

Different rectifiers can handle different loads and will start to compress (sag) sooner then other rect. tubes. I posted some rect tube #'s on current handling some posts back to show this.

If you don't push the amp hard the rect tube won't be taxed and will be able to keep up so no real difference in playing touch/feel and sound.

Depends on where you think you will set the volume most of the time. You can think of it as a built in tube compressor where you can set the amp at a certain volume where along with riding the volume control on your guitar, so that when you pick soft it will be clean and when you pick hard it starts to break up along with some compression. Touch sensitive. (It will be different on different amps, a big factor in having different sized amps for different sized gigs/rooms so you can turn up the amp to that point without blowing everybody out of the room)

I don't play out anymore and I never really did turn my amp past 6 or so and that was with a BF SR and 4 1/2 is still really clean compared to other Fender amps. If I can get to 3 1/2 to 4 1/2 now I very happy with my 5E3 and 5G9. (I had a Mesa MII years ago with a single 12" that was SOOOOOO STIIFF I never got used to it. NOOOOO forgiveness at all. The least little thing and you heard it. :BangHead:  )

I think these are things to consider but........    Build it like you want.



                        Brad    :icon_biggrin:
Title: Re: Spin Off of 2015 list (5E9-A) Im gonna build the 5G9 instead
Post by: lego4040 on January 14, 2015, 04:10:16 pm
That was a good read there Willabe, I see where your coming from. If I choose to buy a PT then why not buy the one that's made to those specs and allow me to use a 5u4. I'm not on a time schedule so I can put it to thought. Back when I was building Hot Rod Chevy's and driving them sometimes I would come up to another Chevy and we'd swap stories. When we open the hoods I'd have my Chevy engine in my Chevy car and they'd have a Mopar Hemi in their Chevy.  It's not a Chevy if it ain't 100%. It  does makes one hell of a Hot Rod but it's different
Title: Re: Spin Off of 2015 list (5E9-A) Im gonna build the 5G9 instead
Post by: Willabe on January 14, 2015, 04:37:58 pm
If I choose to buy a PT then why not buy the one that's made to those specs and allow me to use a 5u4.

Maybe yes, maybe no. I'm trying to unconfuse what I may have confused up.    :laugh:


Back when I was building Hot Rod Chevy's and driving them sometimes I would come up to another Chevy and we'd swap stories. When we open the hoods I'd have my Chevy engine in my Chevy car and they'd have a Mopar Hemi in their Chevy.  It's not a Chevy if it ain't 100%. It  does makes one hell of a Hot Rod but it's different.

Yes and there's more than 1 way to skin a cat.

The suggestions Sluckey and DL gave are very good choices. They may sound just as good or better as the Merc Mags iron with a 5U4 even if you have to use a different rectifier tube.

I'm not trying to convince you to go with what I went with. I was just trying to say why I choose what I did, even though my thinking on it is debatable.

Sluckey and DL won't steer you wrong and know more than I do.    :wink:


                Brad      :icon_biggrin:
Title: Re: Spin Off of 2015 list (5E9-A) Im gonna build the 5G9 instead
Post by: lego4040 on January 15, 2015, 06:55:06 am
Meat and potatoes ordered last night. Chassis,OT, capcan& choke needed to complete
Title: Re: Spin Off of 2015 list (5E9-A) Im gonna build the 5G9 instead
Post by: lego4040 on January 15, 2015, 12:11:28 pm
I was just reading up on a LouisElectric Tremolux based amp and he has the 5AR4/GZ34 Rectifier in it. hopefully today Ill pick up a OT and Chassis.I still am a little undecided on which Pt to get??? I will more then likely go with the
Mojo768sp from here
Title: Re: Spin Off of 2015 list (5E9-A) Im gonna build the 5G9 instead
Post by: Ed_Chambley on January 15, 2015, 12:56:15 pm
I was just reading up on a LouisElectric Tremolux based amp and he has the 5AR4/GZ34 Rectifier in it. hopefully today Ill pick up a OT and Chassis.I still am a little undecided on which Pt to get??? I will more then likely go with the
Mojo768sp from here
I have a theory that has served me very well.  When in doubt, lower the voltage.  The trans you mentioned will work fine, but Edcor has one with a 50v bias tap.  Just takes a little while to get it.
Title: Re: Spin Off of 2015 list (5E9-A) Im gonna build the 5G9 instead
Post by: Willabe on January 15, 2015, 01:07:12 pm
I was just reading up on a LouisElectric Tremolux based amp and he has the 5AR4/GZ34 Rectifier in it.

I just looked at his site and his 5G9 knockoff says 'classic 6L6 tone'. Must have changed it since the Tone Quest Report mag review.

The review he has posted is from and say's new Tung-Sol 6V6's with a new EH5U4, yet his spec. description lists 6L6's and 5AR4/GZ34.

He also added a presence control which means he had to add a -FBL which the old 5G9 does not have.


                          Brad    :think1:   
Title: Re: Spin Off of 2015 list (5E9-A) Im gonna build the 5G9 instead
Post by: lego4040 on January 15, 2015, 02:58:13 pm
Mistake, it was the OT i wasnt sure about really. Steve you had said I didn't need the bias tap, just look at the Princeton reverb. If I use the Hammond 290CAX which doesnt have the bias tap, What changes would I have to make? my other PT I have has the bias
Title: Re: Spin Off of 2015 list (5E9-A) Im gonna build the 5G9 instead
Post by: lego4040 on January 15, 2015, 03:15:47 pm
so looking at how the PR does its bias off the intensity pot seems like to much work out figure out and I don't want to deviate off the circuit
Title: Re: Spin Off of 2015 list (5E9-A) Im gonna build the 5G9 instead
Post by: Willabe on January 15, 2015, 03:48:34 pm
No their similar. They both have the -bias connected to the intensity/depth pot because that's how they vary the -bias.

Just look at the -bias part.

5G9 has a bias tap, PR doesn't so they take the bias voltage off of 1 B+ secondary leg with a 100K R to knock down the ac voltage before they send it to the reversed bias diode. It's simple.


                Brad    :icon_biggrin:   
Title: Re: Spin Off of 2015 list (5E9-A) Im gonna build the 5G9 instead
Post by: sluckey on January 15, 2015, 03:58:52 pm
so looking at how the PR does its bias off the intensity pot seems like to much work out figure out and I don't want to deviate off the circuit
The circuits are exactly the same! The bias voltage is fed thru the intensity pot on both amps. The only difference is the 5G9 uses a bias tap for it's source of AC voltage and the PR uses the HT winding as a source for AC voltage. That means you would use a big resistor (100K to 220K) between the HT winding and the bias diode rather than no resistor with the bias tap (or as I recommended, 470Ω like many of the AB763 amps use).

It's a one resistor change to compensate for 330VAC input to the bias diode rather than a 50VAC input to the bias diode.
 
Title: Re: Spin Off of 2015 list (5E9-A) Im gonna build the 5G9 instead
Post by: lego4040 on January 15, 2015, 04:31:05 pm
Ok, I'm flipping back and forth between both PR and 5G9 and I am seeing(I believe) what you guys are talking about. Take the leg from intensity pot that would be going to the triangular circuit on the 5G9 and set it up as the PR. I would then not have to use that triangular portion, it's inly for the Bias.
Title: Re: Spin Off of 2015 list (5E9-A) Im gonna build the 5G9 instead
Post by: Willabe on January 15, 2015, 07:14:54 pm
I would then not have to use that triangular portion, it's inly for the Bias.

No.

1. To study and compare the circuits use the schematic not the layout drawing, much easy to see the circuits flow.
(Layout drawings are to find where the parts in the schematic are located in the chassis.)
2. Print them both out and look at them side by side, your going to need at least 1 if not both of them.
3. Start at the PT for the source ac bias voltage as Sluckey said, not the intensity/depth pot and work your way toward the 2x220K grid return R's in the schematic.

The 5G9 has a pi filter (cap/resistor/cap in the -bias supply to filter out the ac ripple from the diodes turn on/turn off, just like in the B+ PSU. The PR has only 1 -bias filter cap.

                        Brad    :icon_biggrin:
Title: Re: Spin Off of 2015 list (5E9-A) Im gonna build the 5G9 instead
Post by: lego4040 on January 15, 2015, 07:31:03 pm
I have both layouts but left schems at shop. I totally see the pi you described and the single cap in the BFPR. I drew out two different ways and as I was drawing I could see how it might not work. I want to understand be able to decipher but aside from these forums and books/net it's still tough when you don't have someone to sit down with you and teach you. In my field of work HVAC we don't get this deep and their are no tubes. Thankfully the schooling has helped me with schematics.
Title: Re: Spin Off of 2015 list (5E9-A) Im gonna build the 5G9 instead
Post by: Willabe on January 15, 2015, 08:15:27 pm
I drew out two different ways and as I was drawing I could see how it might not work.

Both circuits work.

You could use either circuit in either amp.


                     Brad    :icon_biggrin:
Title: Re: Spin Off of 2015 list (5E9-A) Im gonna build the 5G9 instead
Post by: lego4040 on January 15, 2015, 08:30:06 pm
Well this is what I drew up first and it's the BFPR bias board schematic that I put on the 5g9 board, where the "pi" would be. How far off am I? I can handle it. Disregard bottom drawing
Title: Re: Spin Off of 2015 list (5E9-A) Im gonna build the 5G9 instead
Post by: Willabe on January 15, 2015, 08:41:46 pm
You don't have a way to adjust the bias, ie, a bias pot.


                   Brad   :icon_biggrin:
Title: Re: Spin Off of 2015 list (5E9-A) Im gonna build the 5G9 instead
Post by: sluckey on January 15, 2015, 09:55:25 pm
You're making this way to complicated. Just build the 5G9 like the schematic/layout. Replace the selenium with a diode and resistor. Connect a 470Ω resistor to your PT bias tap if it has one. Connect a 100K-220K resistor to pin 4 or 6 of the rectifier socket if your PT does not have a bias tap.

Replace the 56K resistor on the board with a 50K pot and 22K resistor regardless of which PT you use.

See pic...
Title: Re: Spin Off of 2015 list (5E9-A) Im gonna build the 5G9 instead
Post by: lego4040 on January 16, 2015, 06:27:06 am
I do tend to over think things I don't understand. As you see there was a second scetch I started and the third scetch I was thinking was the way you drew it out but I never got that far. I will compare schematics and follow. Thanks for all your help again and again.
Title: Re: Spin Off of 2015 list (5E9-A) Im gonna build the 5G9 instead
Post by: lego4040 on January 16, 2015, 02:02:31 pm
Steve, thanks for your help with that diagram, using your diagram this is how I will wire in the trim pot in the circuit where you show the 50k
Title: Re: Spin Off of 2015 list (5E9-A) Im gonna build the 5G9 instead
Post by: Willabe on January 16, 2015, 02:12:38 pm
Ok here's my 5G9 and 5E3 build voltages;

5G9- NOS RCA 6V6's, NOS RCA 5U4GB, Merc Mag iron set, voltages taken with amp plugged into variac set at 120vac;

5U4GB; pins 4/6, each ~345vac, pin 8,  395vdc

6V6; 3. 388.4vdc, 4. 394.6, bias, 26.9, other tube; 3. 386.7vdc, 4. 394.7vdc, bias, 28.2 (measured through 1 ohm K R, pretty hot for 6V6's?)

Plate B+ node 395vdc, screen B+ node (after choke, 99.4 ohms) 397vdc

(Edit; Fender schemo for tweed Tremolux 5E9A lists 395vdc at 1st B+ node with a 5U4GA. But that would have been with 110ac wall voltage? Still 25vdc higher than the 370 listed on the 5G9 schemo. Who knows if either schemo is correct?)

PI; 1. 211.1, 6. 210.6

LFO/Driver; 1. 249vdc, 6. 389vdc

Pre; 1. 232.7vdc, 6. 224.7vdc

5E3- same NOS RCA 6V6's, NOS JAN 5Y3, 15+ year old Kendrick (Gerald Webber) iron set.

5Y3; pins 4/6, each ~362vac, pin 8, 362.6vdc

6V6; 3. 351.9vdc, 4. 319.2vdc, other tube, 3. 351.7vdc, 319.1vdc, K. 19.79vdc

Pre; 1. 124.7vdc, 6. 136.0vdc

PI; 1. 167.7vdc, 6. 229.6vdc

K; 19.79vdc

Yes the Merc Mag set gives higher voltages then found in the Fender schematic (plate, 370vdc, Merc Mag plate, 388vdc, not bad, only 18vdc+, but I am biased on the hot side and then some) but still lower then if I went with, say a DR PT.

PI is very close, on the $$ on 1 plate, pre, I'm 232.7vdc and 225.7vdc, Fender schemo, 175vdc, but I don't have a NOS RCA, I can change the B+ dropping R that feeds the pre B+ node and nail it.

Driver is 389vdc, Fender lists 368vdc, 28vdc higher, not bad, I have a separate B+ node for it so I could dial it in with the B+ dropping R. LFO is 249vdc, Fender 270vdc, so 21vdc lower, not bad, I don't know why 1 comes out higher and the other lower than in Fenders schemo, but the trem works fine. So I'm not worried about it.

I think I'm going to try a new 5Y3 and a NOS 5V4 rectifiers in the 5E3 and see where the B+ voltages end up.


             Brad    :icon_biggrin:
Title: Re: Spin Off of 2015 list (5E9-A) Im gonna build the 5G9 instead
Post by: lego4040 on January 16, 2015, 02:51:22 pm
Thanks for those voltages, that will help me out when I get there. Question? Your Vac&Vdc are the same for the 5Y3?
Title: Re: Spin Off of 2015 list (5E9-A) Im gonna build the 5G9 instead
Post by: Willabe on January 16, 2015, 03:02:14 pm
Thanks for those voltages, that will help me out when I get there.

There also to possibly help you with picking your PT.

Question? Your Vac&Vdc are the same for the 5Y3?

The vac and vdc are for the same rectifier tubes I listed. Why would I change them from what I listed to something else while still taking voltage measurements?

It would throw off the voltage measurements.


                      Brad    :icon_biggrin:                   
Title: Re: Spin Off of 2015 list (5E9-A) Im gonna build the 5G9 instead
Post by: lego4040 on January 16, 2015, 03:13:06 pm
Your 5U4GB; pins 4/6, each ~345vac, pin 8,  395vdc. Your voltage went up 50 as expected when converting to dc but your 5Y3; pins 4/6, each ~362vac, pin 8, 362.6vdc. Your Vdc only went up .6?
Title: Re: Spin Off of 2015 list (5E9-A) Im gonna build the 5G9 instead
Post by: Willabe on January 16, 2015, 03:34:47 pm
I'll have to measure again. I can try another NOS 5Y3 or 2 also.


                   Brad     :dontknow:
Title: Re: Spin Off of 2015 list (5E9-A) Im gonna build the 5G9 instead
Post by: tubeswell on January 16, 2015, 03:57:14 pm
I did a 5G9 using a PT with a 300-0-300 HT (@150mA) and a 3A 5V winding. Using a 5U4 and 40uF reservoir, I got 580V B+. If I couldn't find a PT with 300-0-300 and a 3A 5V winding, I'd try and work out the power supply to get the same B+ using a 5AR4 (instead of a 5Y3) because these amps like a stiffer power supply. So with a 5AR4, that'd want around 280-0-280 or 290-0-290 on the HT winding.
Title: Re: Spin Off of 2015 list (5E9-A) Im gonna build the 5G9 instead
Post by: lego4040 on January 16, 2015, 04:07:56 pm
What model Mercury did you use? Was it the FTTP/M with the lower B+? It's within my budget and whichever Rectifier I choose, I still need to buy. Another new Favorite Band of mine
Title: Re: Spin Off of 2015 list (5E9-A) Im gonna build the 5G9 instead
Post by: Willabe on January 16, 2015, 04:11:06 pm
I did a 5G9 using a PT with a 300-0-300 HT (@150mA) and a 3A 5V winding. Using a 5U4 and 40uF reservoir, I got 580V B+.

580V B+?


             Brad    :w2:
Title: Re: Spin Off of 2015 list (5E9-A) Im gonna build the 5G9 instead
Post by: lego4040 on January 16, 2015, 04:26:04 pm
I been reading your thread you did over at music-(something) and remember you saying you used a FTTP/M. That's a incredible build. I went with the ClassicTone 40-18090 OT and got Hoffmans 125C3A small fender choke
Title: Re: Spin Off of 2015 list (5E9-A) Im gonna build the 5G9 instead
Post by: sluckey on January 16, 2015, 04:40:59 pm
I did a 5G9 using a PT with a 300-0-300 HT (@150mA) and a 3A 5V winding. Using a 5U4 and 40uF reservoir, I got 580V B+.
You sure 'bout that? The maximum you could possibly get would be √2 x 300 = 424vdc. And that's with no load.
Title: Re: Spin Off of 2015 list (5E9-A) Im gonna build the 5G9 instead
Post by: DummyLoad on January 16, 2015, 04:45:29 pm
I did a 5G9 using a PT with a 300-0-300 HT (@150mA) and a 3A 5V winding. Using a 5U4 and 40uF reservoir, I got 580V B+.

how is that possible? MAX in FW config is 424.2V AT 300Vrms. did you mean 480V?

480V would be realistic if the NL rating was 340V per 1/2 primary, however, 320-325V NL per 1/2 primary would be a more realistic figure for for a 600VCT 150mA PT.

--pete
Title: Re: Spin Off of 2015 list (5E9-A) Im gonna build the 5G9 instead
Post by: drew on January 16, 2015, 05:57:17 pm
Hey Brad, somewhere on the net I came across a layout for a 5G9 that had a bunch of extra jazz like a sag control, a master volume, maybe some kind of power scaling deal -- it was a poor quality image, so I'm not sure what all is there.  It says "Brad" on it -- was this yours?  Did you ever build it?
Title: Re: Spin Off of 2015 list (5E9-A) Im gonna build the 5G9 instead
Post by: Willabe on January 16, 2015, 06:11:31 pm
It could be.   :dontknow:

Early on I drew up a 5G9 with a bunch of Kevin O'Connor's circuits added, like power scaling, sag and his PPIMV. I might have posted it at the Power Scaling forum several years ago. I drew it up with Sch.

I never built it. Glad I didn't because it would have been a bear to wire up in the chassis I was going to use, in fact I think it would NOT have worked in it at all.


             Brad   :icon_biggrin:   
Title: Re: Spin Off of 2015 list (5E9-A) Im gonna build the 5G9 instead
Post by: Willabe on January 16, 2015, 08:43:58 pm
Ok, tried another (brand new in box) NOS JAN Philips 5Y3, same voltages within ~2volts.

Also tried a NOS GE 5V4GA;

5V4GA; B+ pin 8, 398vdc

6V6; pin 3, 384vdc, 4, 349.2, K, 21.9vdc

Fender schemo for tweed Tremolux lists 395vdc at 1st B+ node with a 5U4GA.

Odd thing at 1st I was trying to read the dcv at pin 8 on the 5V4GA and I was using the regular pin meter probe and 1 of the heater wires sparked to the K sleeve, I think. I'm sure I saw it spark, saw it out of the corner of my eye and heard a pop through the speaker the 1 time and thought what the heck, then the 2nd time, a few seconds latter, as I was watching the tube, I saw it clearly and heard it again and I turned it off.

I shut it off instantly and tried again with a little spring hook probe and no problems.   :dontknow:



                      Brad    :think1:       
Title: Re: Spin Off of 2015 list (5E9-A) Im gonna build the 5G9 instead
Post by: lego4040 on January 16, 2015, 09:03:21 pm
This time of year when humidity is at zero and that air is real dry I've encounted zaps touching metal and have had arcs jump out to the fingertip. Kinda like as a kid and you rub your feet on the carpet and touch a light switch. I want to make this as close as possible to the real deal and use the 5U4GA tube, I'll save my other pt for my next build. I want to make sure I get the right Mercury Mag. They don't show specs on site but I'm pretty sure its the FTTP/M, is that what your running
Title: Re: Spin Off of 2015 list (5E9-A) Im gonna build the 5G9 instead
Post by: Willabe on January 16, 2015, 09:14:13 pm
This time of year when humidity is at zero and that air is real dry I've encounted zaps touching metal and have had arcs jump out to the fingertip.

But this was inside the tube in a vacuum.


                        Brad     :icon_biggrin:   
Title: Re: Spin Off of 2015 list (5E9-A) Im gonna build the 5G9 instead
Post by: lego4040 on January 16, 2015, 09:18:37 pm
My mistake, I thought it was coming from the bare point of probe to chassis as well. Was it only happening when you would put probe on and off or happening as you kept probe on?
Title: Re: Spin Off of 2015 list (5E9-A) Im gonna build the 5G9 instead
Post by: lego4040 on January 16, 2015, 09:21:09 pm
Bad tube? If you can return the tube then see if it happens with its replacement
Title: Re: Spin Off of 2015 list (5E9-A) Im gonna build the 5G9 instead
Post by: Willabe on January 16, 2015, 09:27:36 pm
I want to make sure I get the right Mercury Mag. They don't show specs on site but I'm pretty sure its the FTTP/M,

The stamped white ink label is wore off. I should have kept some blue painters tape on it while I was working on it. (I'll look for the lead hook up sheet they sent with it.)

I think the # you posted is correct but I think at the time they didn't have the 'lower B+' model.

Just call them and ask to make sure. I always order on the phone from them to get it right.

That's a big pain with them about not listing specs, like it's a big secret that only Leo and they know.    :laugh:


                      Brad     :icon_biggrin:       
Title: Re: Spin Off of 2015 list (5E9-A) Im gonna build the 5G9 instead
Post by: lego4040 on January 16, 2015, 09:35:14 pm
Holy shit those 5U4GB's are expensive, well for the name brand Nos at least. They go from $19-$150 bucks. You have any preference
Title: Re: Spin Off of 2015 list (5E9-A) Im gonna build the 5G9 instead
Post by: Willabe on January 16, 2015, 09:36:58 pm
and 1 of the heater wires sparked to the K sleeve,

The heater wire is inside the cathode sleeve inside the tube. The heater heats the K and is very close to the K. 

Was it only happening when you would put probe on and off or happening as you kept probe on?

It was as I held the probe on the tube pin. Put the spring clip hook on and it was fine.

I have no idea who I bought the tube from, it was 2, 3 years ago already. Got it from 1 of the legit tube guys, like Angela, someone like that.

I know better that I should always pop new tubes in an amp when I 1st get them. 


                         Brad    :think1:
Title: Re: Spin Off of 2015 list (5E9-A) Im gonna build the 5G9 instead
Post by: Willabe on January 16, 2015, 09:39:27 pm
They go from $19-$150 bucks. You have any preference

Yeah, the $19 ones.     :laugh:

$150 is ridiculous!!!!!!!  Keep looking, are you in the US?


                  Brad    :icon_biggrin: 
Title: Re: Spin Off of 2015 list (5E9-A) Im gonna build the 5G9 instead
Post by: lego4040 on January 16, 2015, 09:44:46 pm
You have another regular probe to try out besides the spring probe? When ever I have a flakey probe & I have to order a set I buy two. I got caught with a bad set once and the HVAC unit tested powered off. I got hit with 208/230 and well you know the rest.
Title: Re: Spin Off of 2015 list (5E9-A) Im gonna build the 5G9 instead
Post by: lego4040 on January 16, 2015, 09:50:04 pm
I'm here in Manhattan, NYC. I buy my tubes here lately http://www.audiotubes.com (http://www.audiotubes.com). Mom and Pop shop kind off and always polite on the phone. They have stock up the ass and have always givin me alternatives to the high end stuff. They hooked me up with great 6v6's for my last build and they were cheap/NOS and in fantastic shape and readings.
Title: Re: Spin Off of 2015 list (5E9-A) Im gonna build the 5G9 instead
Post by: Willabe on January 16, 2015, 09:50:13 pm
I have 3, 4 sets of probes but it's not a bad probe. Works fine for everything else I tested today, just that 5V4.

And the little spring hooks are great to use on some things, their so small it's very hard to short them to anything else.



                         Brad    :icon_biggrin: 

Title: Re: Spin Off of 2015 list (5E9-A) Im gonna build the 5G9 instead
Post by: lego4040 on January 16, 2015, 09:53:24 pm
Best not use tha 5v4 then, wouldn't want to ruin that amp
Title: Re: Spin Off of 2015 list (5E9-A) Im gonna build the 5G9 instead
Post by: Willabe on January 16, 2015, 09:55:11 pm
Doug has new EH5U4GB's for $16, wouldn't hurt to have 1 to use until the amps up and running so if you kill no big loss.

Might be very good as far as B+v? The new 5Y3's give a higher B+ and are fine for amp builds if you want a little higher B+.

After it's tested for bugs then you can put in a NOS.


                       Brad     :icon_biggrin:

Title: Re: Spin Off of 2015 list (5E9-A) Im gonna build the 5G9 instead
Post by: Willabe on January 16, 2015, 10:20:19 pm
At the link you just posted (and I live like ~15 miles from them :laugh:) they have 5U4GB's, US made, from $15 to $35. Any of the US made NOS will be fine. (As you read his info on them he tells you many are just relabeled RCA or GE both great US made tubes.)

The GB's are straight sided like a 6L6, the GA's are the bigger ST shape with shoulders, more like a Coke bottle shape and their taller and fatter. I like the smaller GB's. Look at the pictures of the 5U4GA and GB Doug sells.

http://hoffmanamps.com/MyStore/catalog/parts11.htm (http://hoffmanamps.com/MyStore/catalog/parts11.htm)

And he's got a new Sovtek 5V4 for $13.50. (I think I bought 1 from him not long ago, now where did I put that?   :laugh:  )

                Brad    :icon_biggrin:
Title: Re: Spin Off of 2015 list (5E9-A) Im gonna build the 5G9 instead
Post by: lego4040 on January 17, 2015, 08:18:33 am
Looks like you saved yourself shipping fees Brad. I like the descriptions and the choices, like a kid in the candy shop. I bought tubes from him, Doug and some other place where I get my JJ's. I broke two JJ's on my amp rig  :BangHead: I forgot I had them in when testing, I tilted the chassis down for readings and crack, thank god I power down and discharge caps every time before I do anything with a open amp. R.I.P. jj
Title: Re: Spin Off of 2015 list (5E9-A) Im gonna build the 5G9 instead
Post by: lego4040 on January 18, 2015, 06:16:53 pm
So I need to call in a order tomorrow and I will call in a favor :wink:  I'm looking at these two Hammonds http://www.hammondmfg.com/pdf/EDB290CX.pdf (http://www.hammondmfg.com/pdf/EDB290CX.pdf) & http://www.hammondmfg.com/pdf/EDB273CZ.pdf (http://www.hammondmfg.com/pdf/EDB273CZ.pdf)
The 290cx looks closer to what would work for a 5u4
Title: Re: Spin Off of 2015 list (5E9-A) Im gonna build the 5G9 instead
Post by: lego4040 on January 18, 2015, 07:51:31 pm
Scratch those, B+ will be to high
Title: Re: Spin Off of 2015 list (5E9-A) Im gonna build the 5G9 instead
Post by: lego4040 on January 20, 2015, 05:14:00 pm
 :w2: my Box of goodies was missent, gotta love that usps. I'll check tracking again later. But my OT came in today
Title: Re: Spin Off of 2015 list (5E9-A) Im gonna build the 5G9 instead
Post by: Willabe on January 20, 2015, 05:51:37 pm
Oh boy, oh boy, oh boy!    :blob10:



                Brad     :icon_biggrin:
Title: Re: Spin Off of 2015 list (5E9-A) Im gonna build the 5G9 instead
Post by: lego4040 on January 20, 2015, 06:55:03 pm
Tracking for the stuff I ordered says its in mailbox? Super says he'll check in the morning in the big mail boxes, God do I hate the usps delivery system, hey Doug, I will gladly pay and wait longer if necessary to us UPS. So for the cabinet and chassis, my options are the 5E5A&5E7 chassis is my easiest option. As for a cabinet, it's either the 1x15 or I have a baffle made and go down to a 1x12 in the 5e5a cabinet thru weber. Anyone have a different option? I could go with the 3x? In the bandmaster cabinet, neighbors will love me
Title: Re: Spin Off of 2015 list (5E9-A) Im gonna build the 5G9 instead
Post by: Willabe on January 20, 2015, 08:19:54 pm
The 5G9 came with a single 12" in but it was in the tweed Pro cabinet not the smaller tweed Deluxe (5E3).

When TQR mag. bought an old 1 and did a review of it they said they were nicely surprised with how much fuller it sounded in the Pro cab then the vintage 5E3 they have.


                          Brad     :icon_biggrin: 
Title: Re: Spin Off of 2015 list (5E9-A) Im gonna build the 5G9 instead
Post by: lego4040 on January 21, 2015, 10:11:41 am
Anyone have any reviews of Mather Cabs? Im looking at their site now
Title: Re: Spin Off of 2015 list (5E9-A) Im gonna build the 5G9 instead
Post by: Willabe on January 21, 2015, 10:47:34 am
No, but from the amp companies they list as clients, if their still clients then their very good cabinets.

They look real nice, very good looking dove tails.

I seem to recall TQR mag talking about them more then a few times. Lead time at 13 weeks is a little long.


                  Brad    :icon_biggrin: 
Title: Re: Spin Off of 2015 list (5E9-A) Im gonna build the 5G9 instead
Post by: lego4040 on January 21, 2015, 11:56:26 am
Damn that's long. Longer then Edcor winding their transformers. I'll give them a call and see what actual time, see if they're that busy.
Title: Re: Spin Off of 2015 list (5E9-A) Im gonna build the 5G9 instead
Post by: Willabe on January 21, 2015, 12:24:42 pm
Seems that they have more orders then they can handle, which speaks to their reputation, unless they expand the shops capacity, because of return orders? And he probable doesn't want to do that. The bigger your company gets the harder it is to control the quality and you end up doing more paper work in the office than out in the shop doing hands on building.

(They probable fill their big return costumer orders, ie, amp companies 1st?)


              Brad    :think1: 

Title: Re: Spin Off of 2015 list (5E9-A) Im gonna build the 5G9 instead
Post by: DummyLoad on January 21, 2015, 11:02:42 pm
these guys are a possibility? 

http://sourmashguitarcabs.com/ (http://sourmashguitarcabs.com/)

--pete
Title: Re: Spin Off of 2015 list (5E9-A) Im gonna build the 5G9 instead
Post by: drew on January 21, 2015, 11:40:56 pm
Does it have to be a finished cab?  There was a thread on ampgarage.com where a number of guys reported getting good pine cabs from this guy on ebay:  http://stores.ebay.com/Pine-guitar-speaker-cabinet-builder (http://stores.ebay.com/Pine-guitar-speaker-cabinet-builder)
Title: Re: Spin Off of 2015 list (5E9-A) Im gonna build the 5G9 instead
Post by: lego4040 on January 22, 2015, 08:27:43 am
Sour mash is a company I was considering as well and have been on their site numorous times. That Ebay seller is who I want to use for the head cab I want. Oh, my board and parts are in :happy1:  I'll get that going today
Title: Re: Spin Off of 2015 list (5E9-A) Im gonna build the 5G9 instead
Post by: lego4040 on January 22, 2015, 01:54:17 pm
These are really nice finished wood cabs, http://carlscustomguitars.com/Dovetailed-Pine-replacement-cab-for-Fender-Hot-Rod-Deluxe-deluxecab.htm (http://carlscustomguitars.com/Dovetailed-Pine-replacement-cab-for-Fender-Hot-Rod-Deluxe-deluxecab.htm)
My game plan tonight is to order the chassis, cab, Mercury Mag PT(will call first so I get correct one) and Speaker. So here is another question, Which speaker for this amp? Ill be using a 1x12, Weber,Celestion,Jensen,Warehouse Guitar speaker?
Title: Re: Spin Off of 2015 list (5E9-A) Im gonna build the 5G9 instead
Post by: lego4040 on January 22, 2015, 04:38:22 pm
Goodies packed and ready to bring home to start
Title: Re: Spin Off of 2015 list (5E9-A) Im gonna build the 5G9 instead
Post by: lego4040 on January 24, 2015, 09:37:28 am
Iron is hot and populating the board now, will post a progress pic later :icon_biggrin:
Title: Re: Spin Off of 2015 list (5E9-A) Im gonna build the 5G9 instead
Post by: sluckey on January 24, 2015, 09:44:15 am
Iron is hot and populating the board now, will post a progress pic later :icon_biggrin:
Have you already drilled your extra holes in the board?
Title: Re: Spin Off of 2015 list (5E9-A) Im gonna build the 5G9 instead
Post by: lego4040 on January 24, 2015, 11:55:10 am
I didn't drill the holes for the pass thru wires yet. You have some advice, I already see I ordered wrong caps on the .02's. I ordered .002
Title: Re: Spin Off of 2015 list (5E9-A) Im gonna build the 5G9 instead
Post by: lego4040 on January 24, 2015, 03:06:45 pm
Those lugs to the top left are where the mains go, then the go down to the lugs below it. I was thing about just sending mains to where they go and then not have to use under board wire. That frees up the top three and maybe use those for adding bias pot, I just need to figure a clean way to do it. I figured a clean way, I need the 18-25kish resistor from the wiper to the lug attached to caps. The yellow wire underneath is where leg one goes to cap. I'll have to order my stuff tonight.
Title: Re: Spin Off of 2015 list (5E9-A) Im gonna build the 5G9 instead
Post by: sluckey on January 24, 2015, 03:24:36 pm
The diode is backwards and you are missing two resistors in the bias circuit.
Title: Re: Spin Off of 2015 list (5E9-A) Im gonna build the 5G9 instead
Post by: lego4040 on January 24, 2015, 03:48:47 pm
 :icon_biggrin:those are the two I have to order from Doug tonight. The 82k that goes between the cap negatives. And the 22k( that would be the one I penciled in) you didn't pick up on the 470ohm before the rectifier(that I have to flip around). You posted a drawing using 100k-220k which i am is assuming is If I use a PT without the -50bias tAp. I put a 470 because I am going to buy the Mercury mag that is for this amp which will allow me to use the 5U4. If I'm wrong with the 470 resistor let me know, I correct that as well
Title: Re: Spin Off of 2015 list (5E9-A) Im gonna build the 5G9 instead
Post by: sluckey on January 24, 2015, 04:02:05 pm
I saw the 470Ω. I also knew you were still flopping around about which PT to use so there was no need to mention it .
Title: Re: Spin Off of 2015 list (5E9-A) Im gonna build the 5G9 instead
Post by: lego4040 on January 24, 2015, 04:45:35 pm
I went to your site Steve and was looking at your tweed build for some pointers and really nice pictures. On your Tweed Deluxe build you put 1 watt resistors off of pins 1&6 on your preamps. I didn't have 1 watts, only 3watt. And I only put them on the second preamp at the moment. So I put the bigger 1watts on those preamps? Original schematic doesn't show the to be 1 watters
Title: Re: Spin Off of 2015 list (5E9-A) Im gonna build the 5G9 instead
Post by: sluckey on January 24, 2015, 05:17:02 pm
1/2 watt is fine. Would be fine on the second tube plates also.
Title: Re: Spin Off of 2015 list (5E9-A) Im gonna build the 5G9 instead
Post by: lego4040 on January 24, 2015, 05:28:23 pm
 :thumbsup: hopefully I can stay awake and make this parts order tonight, been a long week at work that just ended an hour ago. Hey how do you like your weber in the tweed deluxe you built. I'm reading up on their 12" alnico. There are 3  vintage models that looks nice
Title: Re: Spin Off of 2015 list (5E9-A) Im gonna build the 5G9 instead
Post by: sluckey on January 24, 2015, 05:33:31 pm
That weber is in my leslie now. There is a Jensen in the TDR and 5E3 now.
Title: Re: Spin Off of 2015 list (5E9-A) Im gonna build the 5G9 instead
Post by: lego4040 on January 25, 2015, 08:02:11 am
Ill look at them Jensens as well, I have a 12" Guitar Warehouse speaker in my one combo now. I couldn't pass it up for the price and it is a nice sounding speaker
Title: Re: Spin Off of 2015 list (5E9-A) Im gonna build the 5G9 instead
Post by: lego4040 on January 25, 2015, 02:11:38 pm
In searching for a speaker, since this amp is approximately 20 watts watt should I look for. A  Jensen P12R is 25 watts, a P12Q is 40. I understand the Q will need to be driven louder for it to break up but will give cleaner headroom till it starts to breakup. I guess it's a mater of choice
Title: Re: Spin Off of 2015 list (5E9-A) Im gonna build the 5G9 instead
Post by: lego4040 on January 26, 2015, 04:13:12 pm
As for the cap board, I'm thinking about putting the four mains inside the chassis rather then on the back. I like the way Doug does his inside. That that size chassis and the board not being huge I think I'll have a ton of room.
Maybe once I get the chassis I'll get a small cap board in the same natural turret board material. I havent heard back from Mecury Magnetiics yet..
Title: Re: Spin Off of 2015 list (5E9-A) Im gonna build the 5G9 instead
Post by: sluckey on January 26, 2015, 04:38:02 pm
I have a Jensen P12N in my 5E3. Sounds good to me. I would build the amp and then try every speaker I have before buying an unheard speaker. You may just already own your holy grail.
Title: Re: Spin Off of 2015 list (5E9-A) Im gonna build the 5G9 instead
Post by: lego4040 on January 28, 2015, 04:35:58 pm
Mercury Magnetics FTTP ordered. Chassis & Cab next
Title: Re: Spin Off of 2015 list (5E9-A) Im gonna build the 5G9 instead
Post by: lego4040 on January 28, 2015, 04:39:06 pm
Has anyone ever used tone tubby hemps in there amps, Ive read Clapton has his amps redone with them as well as Carlos Santana, their tone aing to shabby
Title: Re: Spin Off of 2015 list (5E9-A) Im gonna build the 5G9 instead
Post by: sluckey on January 28, 2015, 04:46:25 pm
Tone Tubby wasn't even a thought when Eric and Carlos made their tone. Back then hemp had a much HIGHER purpose.  :icon_biggrin:
Title: Re: Spin Off of 2015 list (5E9-A) Im gonna build the 5G9 instead
Post by: Willabe on January 28, 2015, 05:03:00 pm
I have a 12" Tubby Tone alnico hemp cone 50w(?). I like it a lot, but they cost big $$. I've been using it with my 5E3 and 5G9. I have a 25W TT alnico here I haven't tried yet.

It's a fatter sounding speaker then my 15" WGS alnico, has more mid range. Nice bottom and top end, IMO. 

What I've read about the theory behind using hemp instead of wood pulp for the paper cones is that because hemp derived paper is supposed to be stronger than wood pulp derived paper a hemp cone can be made thinner than a standard wood pulp cone.

So a thinner cone can handle the same power and because it's thinner it's supposed to be more pick/touch sensitive than a slightly thicker paper cone.

But, what they don't tell you is how much hemp their using, %, when mixing it with the standard wood pulp paper mix.

So it may all be hype marketing.

                 Brad    :think1:   
Title: Re: Spin Off of 2015 list (5E9-A) Im gonna build the 5G9 instead
Post by: Willabe on January 28, 2015, 05:17:09 pm
Eminence makes a good # of great sounding speakers that guys here love the sound of. And they are much more reasonably priced per watt.

Hard to beat them.

Your Guitar Warehouse speaker might sound great in the 5G9.


            Brad    :icon_biggrin:
Title: Re: Spin Off of 2015 list (5E9-A) Im gonna build the 5G9 instead
Post by: lego4040 on January 28, 2015, 05:30:40 pm
I've been looking at the eminence speakers as well and trying to Listen to what I can find on the net. This one was reasonable and nice from them, wattage about right http://tonetubby.com/low-watt.html (http://tonetubby.com/low-watt.html) I will test that WGS as well
Title: Re: Spin Off of 2015 list (5E9-A) Im gonna build the 5G9 instead
Post by: Willabe on January 28, 2015, 07:23:01 pm
Just looked in the box, I have a 25w, Humbolt 12" alnico Tubby Tone.


                     Brad    :icon_biggrin:
Title: Re: Spin Off of 2015 list (5E9-A) Im gonna build the 5G9 instead
Post by: lego4040 on January 28, 2015, 09:29:54 pm
You mean a box of parts that you have laying around or the box it came in that was laying around waiting for a home :icon_biggrin: I have a big box of pedal parts with at least 10 boards waitng to be built. Top two to be built is a flanger and a phaser. That speaker an older model? I didn't see it on the site
Title: Re: Spin Off of 2015 list (5E9-A) Im gonna build the 5G9 instead
Post by: Willabe on January 28, 2015, 09:34:23 pm
The box the speaker came in, I haven't tried it with an amp yet.   


                  Brad    :icon_biggrin:
Title: Re: Spin Off of 2015 list (5E9-A) Im gonna build the 5G9 instead
Post by: lego4040 on January 28, 2015, 09:43:41 pm
So many different ways to build just one amp. I will order chassis tomorrow, Mercury PT I ordered earlier today. I need to remember again who made the narrow tweed pro cab that also gave the 12" baffle option. That's for tomorrow's deed, maybe a speaker too. I can walk up to Rudys guitar shop too, they a are a tone tubby dealer. Maybe I can demo some speakers
Title: Re: Spin Off of 2015 list (5E9-A) Im gonna build the 5G9 instead
Post by: lego4040 on January 29, 2015, 08:27:07 pm
I updated that BOM I've started and my PT from Mercury should be in by Wednesday. I gotta order my Chassis tonight, Damn a.d.d. Sidetracks me
Title: Re: Spin Off of 2015 list (5E9-A) Im gonna build the 5G9 instead
Post by: tubeswell on January 29, 2015, 08:47:24 pm
... Damn a.d.d. Sidetracks me


Occupational hazard
Title: Re: Spin Off of 2015 list (5E9-A) Im gonna build the 5G9 instead
Post by: lego4040 on January 30, 2015, 11:09:56 am
Im ready to order the cabinet and my question is this; The narrow tweed pro comes with a 1x15, should I stay with that size or ask cabinet maker to make the sutout 1x12???? opinions
Title: Re: Spin Off of 2015 list (5E9-A) Im gonna build the 5G9 instead
Post by: Willabe on January 30, 2015, 11:32:11 am
It came with a 12". Good 15" for guitar are harder and more $$ then 12" speakers. Plus some/a lot of the 15" are rated for much higher wattage.

If you like/want some speaker breakup you need a lower wattage speaker.


             Brad    :icon_biggrin:
Title: Re: Spin Off of 2015 list (5E9-A) Im gonna build the 5G9 instead
Post by: lego4040 on February 02, 2015, 07:21:18 am
So the WGS Speaker I have is a 12" 8ohm 2007 vintage series. From the reviews I've read these were at the beginning of WGS and they got really good reviews. I'm gonna reach out on their forum and see if I can get specs for it. I might have saved myself some dough. It's a beast and I believe it was 50-75 watts. Might be a bit much
Title: Re: Spin Off of 2015 list (5E9-A) Im gonna build the 5G9 instead
Post by: lego4040 on February 02, 2015, 04:48:08 pm
Chassis is on its way, I choose the Mojotone 5E5A and will get correct faceplate when the time comes

Title: Re: Spin Off of 2015 list (5E9-A) Im gonna build the 5G9 instead
Post by: lego4040 on February 04, 2015, 08:26:30 am
Mojo still hasn't sent chassis, grrrrrr. So I have a question on grounding for this amp, my intenstions are to follow the rule of thumb here and just go with the Doug's grounding paths
Title: Re: Spin Off of 2015 list (5E9-A) Im gonna build the 5G9 instead
Post by: Willabe on February 04, 2015, 10:11:36 am
Doug's grounding works very well. A lot of guys have used it in a lot of builds and were/are very pleased with it.


                  Brad    :icon_biggrin:
Title: Re: Spin Off of 2015 list (5E9-A) Im gonna build the 5G9 instead
Post by: lego4040 on February 04, 2015, 11:26:32 am
 :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Spin Off of 2015 list (5E9-A) Im gonna build the 5G9 instead
Post by: lego4040 on February 04, 2015, 06:20:27 pm
HOT IRON
Title: Re: Spin Off of 2015 list (5E9-A) Im gonna build the 5G9 instead
Post by: Willabe on February 05, 2015, 01:58:00 am
Ooooooohhhhh!!!!!  Nice!!!!!!!!


          Brad     :icon_biggrin:
Title: Re: Spin Off of 2015 list (5E9-A) Im gonna build the 5G9 instead
Post by: clyde on February 05, 2015, 08:38:29 am
Nice iron.  Would you happen to have the specs for the PT Lego?  Thanks.
Title: Re: Spin Off of 2015 list (5E9-A) Im gonna build the 5G9 instead
Post by: lego4040 on February 05, 2015, 09:07:40 am
This is what Patrick emailed me for specs. Here ya go Willibe, from Patrick at Mercury
Hi Lionel,
 
Happy to hear that!
 
The 6.3 is rated at 5 amps
The 5V at 3 amps
 
Title: Re: Spin Off of 2015 list (5E9-A) Im gonna build the 5G9 instead
Post by: clyde on February 05, 2015, 06:36:00 pm
You're going with the 5U4G as well?  I'm thinking when I do mine I'll use a 5V4, possibly going with 300-0-300.
Title: Re: Spin Off of 2015 list (5E9-A) Im gonna build the 5G9 instead
Post by: Willabe on February 05, 2015, 06:48:27 pm
Why would they give the 6.3v heater wind 5A's when a tweed Tremolux only needs 0.9A's for 3x12 _ _ 7 + 0.9A's for the 2x6V6's = 1.8A's?

5A - 1.8A = 3.2A extra heater current. That's almost double (3.6A) extra then what's needed.

And a Fender clone PT with that much more heater current, I think would have to have more B+ wind current also to handle the extra power load of bigger/more power tubes.

For a tweed Bassman, 2x6L6 set with 3x12 _ _ 7's only needs; 6L6=0.9A each, so, 2x0.9A = 1.8A, and 1.8A + 0.9A for 3x12 _ _ 7 = 2.7A

For a tweed Twin, 4x6L6 set with 3x12 _ _ 7's only needs; needs; 6L6x4, 4x0.9A = 3.6A, and 3.6A + 0.9 for 3x12 _ _ 7 = 4.5A.

That's either not what the spec really is, ie, he quoted it wrong, or it's for a different amp model.

I've bought iron from them before and probable will again, if needed, but at their web site they have no specs for current, like it's a big secret what any vintage amp model would need and that nobody can crack the code.    :laugh:   



                        Brad    :icon_biggrin:
Title: Re: Spin Off of 2015 list (5E9-A) Im gonna build the 5G9 instead
Post by: lego4040 on February 05, 2015, 06:59:47 pm
 :dontknow: it's like the KFC recipe or some special sauce
Title: Re: Spin Off of 2015 list (5E9-A) Im gonna build the 5G9 instead
Post by: lego4040 on February 05, 2015, 07:02:42 pm
USPS notifications say my chassis will be here Saturday  :happy1:
Title: Re: Spin Off of 2015 list (5E9-A) Im gonna build the 5G9 instead
Post by: lego4040 on February 07, 2015, 04:38:01 pm
Chassis came today. Will see if Mercury drops right in later. To many beers last night
Title: Re: Spin Off of 2015 list (5E9-A) Im gonna build the 5G9 instead
Post by: lego4040 on February 09, 2015, 04:22:36 pm
PT dropped right in(only it wasn't through holes) quick mod and I have a nice bracket holding it real tight. My concern is the way the windings are, if Install OT the way shown the windings are the same direction. When I put choke next to them it looks way to small but this is what specs show
Title: Re: Spin Off of 2015 list (5E9-A) Im gonna build the 5G9 instead
Post by: VMS on February 09, 2015, 05:02:25 pm
Hi,

here is a link to a original 5g9. Looks like the choke is between PT and OT and also the OT winding is turned sideways:

http://vintageamps.com/plexiboard/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=105685#p1023278 (http://vintageamps.com/plexiboard/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=105685#p1023278)

Title: Re: Spin Off of 2015 list (5E9-A) Im gonna build the 5G9 instead
Post by: Willabe on February 09, 2015, 05:56:11 pm
My concern is the way the windings are, if Install OT the way shown the windings are the same direction.

That's a lay down PT, it's lams are on a different plane than the OT and choke. It won't be a problem.

And your OT coil and choke coil are on different planes, plus the choke is shielded.


              Brad    :icon_biggrin:
Title: Re: Spin Off of 2015 list (5E9-A) Im gonna build the 5G9 instead
Post by: lego4040 on February 09, 2015, 06:42:16 pm
Whew.  thanks for the link, I've seen William Yates video quite a few times. Thanks Will
Title: Re: Spin Off of 2015 list (5E9-A) Im gonna build the 5G9 instead
Post by: lego4040 on February 10, 2015, 07:30:29 pm
Ugh
Title: Re: Spin Off of 2015 list (5E9-A) Im gonna build the 5G9 instead
Post by: Willabe on February 10, 2015, 08:37:59 pm
Looking great!


              Brad    :icon_biggrin:
Title: Re: Spin Off of 2015 list (5E9-A) Im gonna build the 5G9 instead
Post by: lego4040 on February 11, 2015, 04:02:55 pm
I started putting in pots and jacks and noticed my first error. I need to use smaller standoffs and maybe I'll shift it back and over slightly
Title: Re: Spin Off of 2015 list (5E9-A) Im gonna build the 5G9 instead
Post by: lego4040 on February 16, 2015, 04:13:44 pm
I got the iron going today
Title: Re: Spin Off of 2015 list (5E9-A) Im gonna build the 5G9 instead
Post by: lego4040 on February 18, 2015, 01:28:22 pm
Hey Willibe check this out http://www.rareelectricguitar.com/Rory-Gallagher-Stratocaster-sale_794.html (http://www.rareelectricguitar.com/Rory-Gallagher-Stratocaster-sale_794.html)
Title: Re: Spin Off of 2015 list (5E9-A) Im gonna build the 5G9 instead
Post by: lego4040 on February 19, 2015, 07:57:26 pm
I got the heaters, 1st 12Ax7, mains wired up, also or speaker out. I'm gonna use a 8&16ohm out. I kept main caps inside and still had room to spare.
Title: Re: Spin Off of 2015 list (5E9-A) Im gonna build the 5G9 instead
Post by: Willabe on February 19, 2015, 08:20:11 pm
Hey Willibe check this out http://www.rareelectricguitar.com/Rory-Gallagher-Stratocaster-sale_794.html (http://www.rareelectricguitar.com/Rory-Gallagher-Stratocaster-sale_794.html)

Thanks!    :icon_biggrin:
Title: Re: Spin Off of 2015 list (5E9-A) Im gonna build the 5G9 instead
Post by: lego4040 on February 19, 2015, 09:06:41 pm
Will you still interested in the varistor?
Title: Re: Spin Off of 2015 list (5E9-A) Im gonna build the 5G9 instead
Post by: Willabe on February 19, 2015, 09:26:32 pm
Yes, I'll PM you.


             Brad    :icon_biggrin:
Title: Re: Spin Off of 2015 list (5E9-A) Im gonna build the 5G9 instead
Post by: lego4040 on February 19, 2015, 10:08:51 pm
K, I've been in lala land and busy w work. The
Title: Re: Spin Off of 2015 list (5E9-A) Im gonna build the 5G9 instead
Post by: Willabe on February 19, 2015, 10:13:45 pm
Me too.

     Brad    :laugh:
Title: Re: Spin Off of 2015 list (5E9-A) Im gonna build the 5G9 instead
Post by: lego4040 on February 20, 2015, 10:59:11 am
If I wanted to keep the tremolo on and not use the foot switch I just put that wire from the 1M to ground instead of tip. I think that's how I did it on Sluckey's A/C 15. What I might do is use the hole that is slated for old ground switch for the foot switch and use the two holes on back for dual speaker outs. One for 8 ohm the other 16 ohm
Title: Re: Spin Off of 2015 list (5E9-A) Im gonna build the 5G9 instead
Post by: sluckey on February 20, 2015, 11:26:07 am
Quote
If I wanted to keep the tremolo on and not use the foot switch I just put that wire from the 1M to ground instead of tip. I think that's how I did it on Sluckey's A/C 15.
No. Don't confuse the AC15 and the 5E9A. They are different. The AC15 has to have a ground from the FS to ENABLE the trem. The 5E9A has to have a ground from the FS to KILL the tremolo.

The trem will work on this amp even if the FS is unplugged.
Title: Re: Spin Off of 2015 list (5E9-A) Im gonna build the 5G9 instead
Post by: Ed_Chambley on February 20, 2015, 01:09:00 pm
Lego, just wanted to say very nice work.  I hope you really enjoy that amp because with your build style it is going to be around for a while. Great blues amp, but ain't everything blues? :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Spin Off of 2015 list (5E9-A) Im gonna build the 5G9 instead
Post by: lego4040 on February 20, 2015, 01:11:23 pm
 :thumbsup: gotcha, also on the schematic/layout has pin 2/1/8 together. I know pin 2 is for heater, pin 1 isnt anything on the tube and pin 8 is cathode. Where should I tie the two pin 8's?? I was thinking those would just ground to chassis
Title: Re: Spin Off of 2015 list (5E9-A) Im gonna build the 5G9 instead
Post by: sluckey on February 20, 2015, 02:13:01 pm
Quote
Where should I tie the two pin 8's?? I was thinking those would just ground to chassis
Connect them both to chassis using the same bolt that the PT center taps connect to.
Title: Re: Spin Off of 2015 list (5E9-A) Im gonna build the 5G9 instead
Post by: lego4040 on February 20, 2015, 02:15:06 pm
That's what I was thinkng, just needed to check. I have a printout of the grounding guide from here
Title: Re: Spin Off of 2015 list (5E9-A) Im gonna build the 5G9 instead
Post by: lego4040 on February 22, 2015, 12:45:31 pm
My tubes have arrived
Title: Re: Spin Off of 2015 list (5E9-A) Im gonna build the 5G9 instead
Post by: Willabe on February 22, 2015, 01:04:07 pm
Nice.


            Brad    :icon_biggrin:
Title: Re: Spin Off of 2015 list (5E9-A) Im gonna build the 5G9 instead
Post by: lego4040 on February 25, 2015, 11:52:36 am
Question, I'm using the two Jack holes on bottom of chassis for 8 and 16 ohm seperate jacks. One hole is supposed to be where the tremolo footswich goes. I want to put that in the hole on front that would be for ground switch(since nobody uses a ground switch anymore) will I have noise issues running it over there?  This amp is close to firing up after a number of x's going over it
Title: Re: Spin Off of 2015 list (5E9-A) Im gonna build the 5G9 instead
Post by: sluckey on February 25, 2015, 11:59:01 am
Quote
will I have noise issues running it over there?
I doubt it. But it's just one wire. Just put it there and see.
Title: Re: Spin Off of 2015 list (5E9-A) Im gonna build the 5G9 instead
Post by: lego4040 on February 25, 2015, 06:22:16 pm
That ground hole is way to big for the Jack. I might not even wire it now
Title: Re: Spin Off of 2015 list (5E9-A) Im gonna build the 5G9 instead
Post by: sluckey on February 25, 2015, 06:31:34 pm
Shoulder washers...

http://hoffmanamps.com/MyStore/perlshop.cgi?action=template&thispage=MiscHardware&ORDER_ID=143278228 (http://hoffmanamps.com/MyStore/perlshop.cgi?action=template&thispage=MiscHardware&ORDER_ID=143278228)
Title: Re: Spin Off of 2015 list (5E9-A) Im gonna build the 5G9 instead
Post by: lego4040 on February 25, 2015, 06:52:40 pm
Ah yes, I see them. If I do use that then I need to wire ground since those washers insulate Jack from chassis. I will think about this. If I get a faceplate made I might just cover that up and put Jack in back still. Thanks for that tip
Title: Re: Spin Off of 2015 list (5E9-A) Im gonna build the 5G9 instead
Post by: lego4040 on February 26, 2015, 04:35:46 pm
I fired up the amp after I did the poor mans variac test. I did not use power resistor, I used speaker and the bright channel was clean and clear but had a tic. When I shut off tremolo it went away. Normal channel was lower in volume too. Now here are my #'s, there is something way wrong here. I have fluctuations in V's, you'll see them w arrow in between. I have 10.31v on the rectifir heaters(wtf) and my B+ is less then my vac?  Now the amp played clean and tremolo works but has noise.
Title: Re: Spin Off of 2015 list (5E9-A) Im gonna build the 5G9 instead
Post by: lego4040 on February 26, 2015, 04:42:34 pm
If you look at my reply 179 and look at picture I have the two mains in parallel grounded to PT CT bolt. I grounded the other two mains by the buss bar on pots by 100ohm heater wires which is next to speed/depth pot, ground error? I have that pot buss bar grounded to the chassis way to the right by the inputs
Title: Re: Spin Off of 2015 list (5E9-A) Im gonna build the 5G9 instead
Post by: Willabe on February 26, 2015, 06:51:11 pm
Pin 5 should have a negative ( - ) DCV on it for -bias.

Get that fixed 1st!

Take the power and pre tubes OUT and test for -bias DCV on both pin 5's of 6V6's. If you have a bias tap, then take the rectifier tube out too. If adjustable -bias, test with tubes OUT for min and max -DCV.

You might be drawing WAY to much current through the 6V6's and that's dropping the rectifier B+. Don't turn the amp on again until you take the 6V6's out and verify a -bias dcv on both pin's 5 of 6V6's.

Your also dropping screen dcv on 1 6v6 and not the other, might be the -bias.
 
V3 is the LFO tube, it's doing what it's supposed to do, oscillate.    :icon_biggrin:

What rectifier tube are you using? You posted 5A4GB?

Measure the rectifier tube pins 2 and 8, 1 pin at a time, + to a pin, - to ground. What do you get? 


                   Brad    :icon_biggrin:
Title: Re: Spin Off of 2015 list (5E9-A) Im gonna build the 5G9 instead
Post by: lego4040 on February 26, 2015, 09:18:30 pm
I emailed Patrick at MM on the PT. I posted a pic here in one of the older replies and will again. My Bias (white/red) wire is 0volts, NOT -50v(is that my problem) Slucky posted a alternative if your pt doesn't have a - bias tap,If that's my problem. It's here in this thread, I'll look back and see. I will pull all tubes tommorow and check your requests, I noticed that when I tried to adjust bias pot I couldn't get voltage to adjust.  I am using the 5u4gb rectifier. On both pins 2&8 I get 10.31vac & 299vdc
Title: Re: Spin Off of 2015 list (5E9-A) Im gonna build the 5G9 instead
Post by: Willabe on February 26, 2015, 11:44:26 pm
I posted a pic here in one of the older replies and will again. My Bias (white/red) wire is 0volts, NOT -50v(is that my problem)

It's in reply #163. I would disconnect the white/red wire and with all the tubes out, including the rectifier, turn the amp on and carefully measure that W/R bias wire for acv. You might have the bias supply wired wrong and are shorting it to ground. If so maybe you didn't kill it, yet.

My Bias (white/red) wire is 0volts, NOT -50v(is that my problem)

Yes and no. A bias tap should be a positive acv but not 0 acv's. 

(Just checked my Merc. Mag 5G9 PT and it's bias wire is W/R and it's B+ CT is Bl/R same as yours.)

I noticed that when I tried to adjust bias pot I couldn't get voltage to adjust.

Lego, on an amp that's grid bias (not cathode bias) you ALWAYS have to make sure there's -bias at the power tubes grids before you put in the power tubes.

I am using the 5u4gb rectifier. On both pins 2&8 I get 10.31vac & 299vdc.

Is that measured + meter probe to 1 pin at a time and the other meter probe to ground?



                Brad
Title: Re: Spin Off of 2015 list (5E9-A) Im gonna build the 5G9 instead
Post by: lego4040 on February 27, 2015, 06:33:54 am
Willibe, on the schematic where the -69vac comes in after selenium to 82k resistor I have -51vac. With ground probe to chassis I measured pin 2 and got 10.31vac and then I measured pin 8 and got 10.31. What I noticed on my PT, where the heater wires come out of pt the green 6.3 are a pair together but the yellow 5volts  one comes out on one side of winding and the othe yellow comes out of other side. You can see that on picture
Title: Re: Spin Off of 2015 list (5E9-A) Im gonna build the 5G9 instead
Post by: Willabe on February 27, 2015, 08:10:42 am
on the schematic where the -69vac comes in after selenium to 82k resistor I have -51vac.


Well, that's good, means bias tap is good but it also means you have something wired wrong from that point to the power tube grids. I would trace the -bias dcv back from the power tube grid pins. Look at the Fender schematic and layout drawing to figure out what's wrong.
 
With ground probe to chassis I measured pin 2 and got 10.31vac and then I measured pin 8 and got 10.31.

That doesn't make sense to me. I get  ~5.1acv measuring across pins 2 and 8. I get 0acv measuring + meter probe to pin 2 and the other to ground. I get ~5.1acv measuring + meter probe to pin 2 and the other to ground. (I think the last 2 measurements are because the 5v wind is floating and not referenced to ground?)

I don't see how they would wind the 5v for 10v by mistake.

What I noticed on my PT, where the heater wires come out of pt the green 6.3 are a pair together but the yellow 5volts  one comes out on one side of winding and the other yellow comes out of other side.

That doesn't matter, that's just where they brought the fly leads out.


                       Brad     :icon_biggrin:
Title: Re: Spin Off of 2015 list (5E9-A) Im gonna build the 5G9 instead
Post by: sluckey on February 27, 2015, 08:27:36 am
...With ground probe to chassis I measured pin 2 and got 10.31vac and then I measured pin 8 and got 10.31.
Your meter is actually measuring the "ripple" voltage of the rectified B+. If your meter can also measure frequency, set it to do so and you'll see that 'AC' is really 120Hz, not 60Hz line freq.

If you want to measure the 5VAC filament voltage, you'll have to put one probe on pin 2 and the other probe on pin 8.
Title: Re: Spin Off of 2015 list (5E9-A) Im gonna build the 5G9 instead
Post by: lego4040 on February 27, 2015, 09:03:53 am
My fluke can measure frequency, I should measure black to ground and red to B+ for that?
Title: Re: Spin Off of 2015 list (5E9-A) Im gonna build the 5G9 instead
Post by: sluckey on February 27, 2015, 09:52:22 am
My fluke can measure frequency, I should measure black to ground and red to B+ for that?
Yes, but I was just presenting an explanation for that seemingly odd voltage reading. It's perfectly OK to have that much ripple straight out of the rectifier. There is nothing wrong with your PT. This is not part of your problem.

Your #1 priority is fixing the bias circuit. There is a good chance that your 6V6s are shot at this point. They have been severely stressed with no negative bias. Hopefully your OT is not damaged.

The good news is that the bias circuit is very simple and should be easy to troubleshoot. You don't need ANY tubes plugged in until you can measure something like 30 to -50vdc on pin 5 of both 6V6s. And this voltage should be adjustable using the bias pot.
Title: Re: Spin Off of 2015 list (5E9-A) Im gonna build the 5G9 instead
Post by: lego4040 on February 27, 2015, 10:48:33 am
 :sad: :cry: not my 6v6s. I just got a really good matches Nos pair. Hopefully(pray)! They aren't shot.
Title: Re: Spin Off of 2015 list (5E9-A) Im gonna build the 5G9 instead
Post by: Willabe on February 27, 2015, 11:29:42 am
On a new build I use, as do others, inexpensive new production tubes or old tubes that are still good but I don't care so much if something goes wrong until I'm sure the amps working right.


             Brad     
Title: Re: Spin Off of 2015 list (5E9-A) Im gonna build the 5G9 instead
Post by: lego4040 on February 27, 2015, 11:51:29 am
Ok so look what I found so far. You this picture, I was supposed to hook up white/red to where it says CT. I didn't. I hooked the wire straight to where it shows on schematic totally bypassing rectifier and 3watt 470 ohm resistor making the +53 volts I am reading right now on the bare bias wire.
Title: Re: Spin Off of 2015 list (5E9-A) Im gonna build the 5G9 instead
Post by: lego4040 on February 27, 2015, 11:56:13 am
Yes that 18k is there, just not on that pic yet. With the rectifir out I get 5.2 vac across pin 2&8. With ground to chassis and lead to pin 2 I get 5.2. With ground lead to chassis and red lead to p8 I get .9
Title: Re: Spin Off of 2015 list (5E9-A) Im gonna build the 5G9 instead
Post by: Willabe on February 27, 2015, 11:59:47 am
With the rectifir out I get 5.2 vac across pin 2&8. With ground to chassis and lead to pin 2 I get 5.2. With ground lead to chassis and red lead to p8 I get .9

Your good there.

Like Sluckey and I said 1st fix the -bias.

on the schematic where the -69vac comes in after selenium to 82k resistor I have -51vac.

I hooked the wire straight to where it shows on schematic totally bypassing rectifier and 3watt 470 ohm resistor making the +53 volts I am reading right now on the bare bias wire.

Which is it?


              Brad     :dontknow:
Title: Re: Spin Off of 2015 list (5E9-A) Im gonna build the 5G9 instead
Post by: Willabe on February 27, 2015, 12:15:07 pm
I can't see what you have wired to what under the board, here;

Edit; It doesn't matter if the pot is 1st or the tail R going to ground. You can put the R 1st then the pot to ground.
Title: Re: Spin Off of 2015 list (5E9-A) Im gonna build the 5G9 instead
Post by: lego4040 on February 27, 2015, 01:00:25 pm
with the red/white wire disconnect from circuit I got +53volts on wire. I was supposed to hook that wire to the 3watt 470resitor which goes into diode which goes to 82k resistor(where original layout has it). You were red/white is hooked up now on board, I got -69vdc. Bias pot doesn't drop it more then that, maybe bigger resistor later or I'll see when I get a load on it. I'm gonna start with 5u4gb now
Title: Re: Spin Off of 2015 list (5E9-A) Im gonna build the 5G9 instead
Post by: sluckey on February 27, 2015, 01:17:56 pm
Ok so look what I found so far. You this picture, I was supposed to hook up white/red to where it says CT. I didn't. I hooked the wire straight to where it shows on schematic totally bypassing rectifier and 3watt 470 ohm resistor making the +53 volts I am reading right now on the bare bias wire.
Diode is backwards in this pic!
Title: Re: Spin Off of 2015 list (5E9-A) Im gonna build the 5G9 instead
Post by: sluckey on February 27, 2015, 01:19:03 pm
with the red/white wire disconnect from circuit I got +53volts on wire. I was supposed to hook that wire to the 3watt 470resitor which goes into diode which goes to 82k resistor(where original layout has it). You were red/white is hooked up now on board, I got -69vdc. Bias pot doesn't drop it more then that, maybe bigger resistor later or I'll see when I get a load on it. I'm gonna start with 5u4gb now
Diode is correct in this pic.
Title: Re: Spin Off of 2015 list (5E9-A) Im gonna build the 5G9 instead
Post by: lego4040 on February 27, 2015, 01:24:03 pm
475B+ with From rectifier with no power or oreamp tubes in it
Title: Re: Spin Off of 2015 list (5E9-A) Im gonna build the 5G9 instead
Post by: lego4040 on February 27, 2015, 01:27:17 pm
Quote
Cause you the man Sluckey, you made me spin it around
Title: Re: Spin Off of 2015 list (5E9-A) Im gonna build the 5G9 instead
Post by: sluckey on February 27, 2015, 01:28:54 pm
Where's the wire?
Title: Re: Spin Off of 2015 list (5E9-A) Im gonna build the 5G9 instead
Post by: lego4040 on February 27, 2015, 01:55:58 pm
Under the board, I just verified continuity too. It's in one of the pics further back in the thread. It's the yellow wire underneath. All tubes in and testing again. I set bias pot so I have 370vdcB+ off the rectifier p8. what#'s am I looking for. Both 6v6's have a -20.56ish on pin 5
Title: Re: Spin Off of 2015 list (5E9-A) Im gonna build the 5G9 instead
Post by: lego4040 on February 27, 2015, 04:01:18 pm
So these are the numbers I got. I dialed the bias to 370vdc and my numbers were close all way around I believe. I had some noise and when I moved some leads around on V3(Tremolo) I got it to go away mostly, so I have some wire management to do later. Bright channel is super crisp and clean and normal channel is nice as well. If I were to build another I'd just build it with bright channel. Tremolo, nice, clean and can't wait to try this with a real speaker cab.
Title: Re: Spin Off of 2015 list (5E9-A) Im gonna build the 5G9 instead
Post by: sluckey on February 27, 2015, 04:57:09 pm
I set bias pot so I have 370vdcB+ off the rectifier p8.
  :huh:  Say what???

Something ain't right. Bias pot should have nothing to do with voltage at pin 8 of the rectifier.
 
Title: Re: Spin Off of 2015 list (5E9-A) Im gonna build the 5G9 instead
Post by: lego4040 on February 27, 2015, 05:03:42 pm
I have meter set up to read my B+ off pin 8. Black to ground red to pin 8 on 5u4gb. By adjusting the bias Potenteometer i was able to raise and lower B+, I set it to 370vdc. So say dat ain't right, something still wrong :BangHead:
Title: Re: Spin Off of 2015 list (5E9-A) Im gonna build the 5G9 instead
Post by: sluckey on February 27, 2015, 06:34:56 pm
Changing the bias voltage does affect B+ due to the fact of changing the current thru the output tubes. Set bias voltage to a low negative voltage on pin 5 causes the tubes to pass more current, which causes the B+ to drop due to the increased current demand. Set the negative bias to a greater value does just the opposite.

There may not be anything wrong. But I was alarmed at the 105v difference between absolutely no current load (no tubes) and full load (all tubes in).

Quote
475B+ with From rectifier with no power or oreamp tubes in it
Quote
I set bias pot so I have 370vdcB+ off the rectifier p8.

370V is probably a good target B+ for that amp.
Title: Re: Spin Off of 2015 list (5E9-A) Im gonna build the 5G9 instead
Post by: lego4040 on February 27, 2015, 07:04:34 pm
I see what your saying, I have another set of matched 6v6's I'll plug in on Monday and see my voltages again. I'm gonna have to do wire management also to deal with crossed wire noises. I dialed in pots to were I was getting that pulse, I went to V3 and carefully moved wires around and and noise went away, I put that back and noise came back. I also wired heater wires over the top since there isn't much room anywhere else with that chassis.  I'll chip away at it next week, this weekend I will work on the cab I got from SG. Things have been stressful at home lately, I have to have a large tumor and right thyroid removed(benign) but it's causing me to stop breathing sometimes when I sleep and looks like I have a frog in my throat. It's also Very close to vocal chords. Wife's health has been not good and she's going through stressful tests lately. So yeah, I'm a little spacey right now. My wife got a chance to help her sister out at a convention and she just landed in Vegas enjoying a much deserved break
Title: Re: Spin Off of 2015 list (5E9-A) Im gonna build the 5G9 instead
Post by: lego4040 on March 02, 2015, 06:03:32 pm
Alright, using this bias method from uncle Doug http://youtu.be/pjKYiSr497w (http://youtu.be/pjKYiSr497w) I used the 6v6's I probably fried from my mistake the other day. The first two sets are with those, dissipation way high. Then the last set is with the other pair I had and I got them under the 12 watts for 6v6. I put the possible bad set back in to try and dial in better numbers but I saw a bulb flash, not sure which tube went
Title: Re: Spin Off of 2015 list (5E9-A) Im gonna build the 5G9 instead
Post by: lego4040 on March 03, 2015, 06:53:13 am
If the spec sheet on a 6v6 says 350 max VDC why does it show 370? And save wattage 12-14? I'm gonna see if I can send my tubes to the place I bought them to have them checked, maybe I can salvage and use as spares for testing. Not sure how much damage was done to them and I sware I saw a flash in one of them yesterday.
Title: Re: Spin Off of 2015 list (5E9-A) Im gonna build the 5G9 instead
Post by: lego4040 on March 10, 2015, 07:59:56 am
So I got a phone call from Brent Jesse over at audiotubes about my 6v6's and 5u4GB. The tubes are fine and will not cause any issues. He did say that on the curve test they are not as perfectly matched as they were. They were spot on before and now a little less perfect but no problem using them as a matched pair
Title: Re: Spin Off of 2015 list (5E9-A) Im gonna build the 5G9 instead
Post by: lego4040 on March 17, 2015, 12:10:54 pm
Anyone have a good idea on what I can use the usless ground switch for? I'm Having a faceplate made after I measure it all out and I have two choices, just not have hole made for new plate or add a mod and have it labeled for that
Title: Re: Spin Off of 2015 list (5E9-A) Im gonna build the 5G9 instead
Post by: supro66 on March 17, 2015, 12:29:26 pm
A stand by switch for the high voltage shut off save the tubes  :dontknow:
Title: Re: Spin Off of 2015 list (5E9-A) Im gonna build the 5G9 instead
Post by: lego4040 on March 17, 2015, 12:31:31 pm
i already have that.I am using the 5E5A chassis from mojo
Title: Re: Spin Off of 2015 list (5E9-A) Im gonna build the 5G9 instead
Post by: lego4040 on March 17, 2015, 04:22:33 pm
Last night I had to work and assist the signage company with all our FDNY signs and the owner turned out to be a cool dude from my old neighborhood. All his equipment is state of the art CAD, CNC laser, UV.......... You get my point. I started talking about music and told him I was building another amp but needed a faceplate. I showed him the amp, I showed him Sluckey's AC 15 faceplate and the rest is history. I just need to do all measures and give him the drawing, pick my material and if I want engraving or laser jet printing. I'm hoping it turns out nice and maybe give you guys a option on faceplates, if he's willing to do the service
Title: Re: Spin Off of 2015 list (5E9-A) Im gonna build the 5G9 instead
Post by: Willabe on March 17, 2015, 04:36:04 pm
Cool.   :icon_biggrin:
Title: Re: Spin Off of 2015 list (5E9-A) Im gonna build the 5G9 instead
Post by: lego4040 on March 18, 2015, 01:38:53 pm
Hours spent drawing the layout for the 5G9 faceplate. I need to go over and label holes correctly and make the call to my sign vender. I did email Mojo where I got chassis to see if I can get the faceplate hole dimensions. This way I can verify mine
Mojo doesn't have the cad file so I'll have to really check my accuracy. I think it's done now but pic is choppy from pano shot
Title: Re: Spin Off of 2015 list (5E9-A) Im gonna build the 5G9 instead
Post by: lego4040 on April 03, 2015, 08:26:02 pm
ITS ALIVE!!!!!! I finally got around to retubing the amp after some fixes. The 6v6's tested great and survived my error. I have 400vdc out of rectifier, 397 on the plates, -28.5v on the control grids and tubes are at 14watts disapation. Even thru a crappy speaker and box it has a really nice sound and tone. The tremolo is true to the legend, this needs a combo fast.
Title: Re: Spin Off of 2015 list (5E9-A) Im gonna build the 5G9 instead
Post by: Willabe on April 04, 2015, 10:03:06 am
Very nice!

I really like that amp, run a Fender stand alone reverb in the front and it's a keeper.


            Brad    :icon_biggrin:
Title: Re: Spin Off of 2015 list (5E9-A) Im gonna build the 5G9 instead
Post by: lego4040 on April 04, 2015, 12:33:31 pm
It needs of coarse a cab, a head is easiest but it will be big because of the way the tubes are situated. The tremolo nailed the "How Soon is Now" from The Smiths and has that Fogerty vibe +.
Title: Re: Spin Off of 2015 list (5E9-A) Im gonna build the 5G9 instead
Post by: lego4040 on August 05, 2015, 11:07:23 am
So I bit the bullet and ordered a cabinet from Mergili. After seeing A 5G9 for sale in Reverb I contacted them and after a few emails I said please make me that cabinet exactly, tint, lacquer and all. It should take 10 days to build and then ship from The Great North West. Speaker is my next quest, I have a 8&16ohm option and it's a 12" cutout. The Celestionlue is out now that I dropped some hard cash on a cab..Tone tubbies lower wattage speakers look interesting in the reviews I've read
Title: Re: Spin Off of 2015 list (5E9-A) Im gonna build the 5G9 instead
Post by: lego4040 on October 15, 2015, 07:17:22 pm
Here she is at 98% finished.(http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j72/legomaniac4040/Mobile%20Uploads/F52450C7-5DFD-490A-8C57-1AA374E0DC4F_zpsgrsok52u.jpg) (http://s77.photobucket.com/user/legomaniac4040/media/Mobile%20Uploads/F52450C7-5DFD-490A-8C57-1AA374E0DC4F_zpsgrsok52u.jpg.html)(http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j72/legomaniac4040/Mobile%20Uploads/7B46D8E2-BA39-48EC-BC3C-C235A5262E4E_zpseunrh3zq.jpg) (http://s77.photobucket.com/user/legomaniac4040/media/Mobile%20Uploads/7B46D8E2-BA39-48EC-BC3C-C235A5262E4E_zpseunrh3zq.jpg.html)(http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j72/legomaniac4040/Mobile%20Uploads/DBAB063E-8844-41E4-814B-5D45787D53E9_zpsqjqxgx2j.jpg) (http://s77.photobucket.com/user/legomaniac4040/media/Mobile%20Uploads/DBAB063E-8844-41E4-814B-5D45787D53E9_zpsqjqxgx2j.jpg.html) tons of head room so I might go with a smaller wattage speaker to break up earlier, this on is rated around 60watts. I will put the foot switch in where the ground switch goes, I used two creme chicken heads where the speed & depth are cause I ran out of black ones but I kind a like it. Where can I get those paper tube charts from so I can make it offcial :icon_biggrin: