Hoffman Amplifiers Tube Amplifier Forum
Amp Stuff => Tube Amp Building - Tweaks - Repairs => Topic started by: p2pAmps on October 28, 2015, 11:02:28 am
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Ok, Here we go...
I have an idea for a steel amp. I want to build a one channel 6L6 (4), SS rectifier, vol, treb, mid, bass, reverb (dwell-tone-blend knobs) bright switch amp (Sounds like a Twin Reverb or Milkman huh) but with major options for tone. Maybe mini toggles with multiple cap selections etc. I know first hand that steel players are very picky about their tone as I am one, or at least used to be one in my wild days...
Now I must disclose I am a total beginner even though I build many amps and do tons of restores. I still don't know anything about design and my schematic reading is poor too (working on that)... Mr Luckey suggested I start a thread as many of you may have already tackled this or have ideas. Now remember, I'm the new guy on the block so go easy on me.
Mike Scaggs
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The Vibro King (http://el34world.com/charts/Schematics/files/fender/Fender_vibro_king_manual.pdf) has some ideas you may want to consider. It may even be everything you want except for power. Power is easy. Just double up on the 6L6s and use Twin Reverb iron.
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already tackled this
I've made a great living outta fixing sophisticated electronic systems, but design is a whole other game, since I've been here I have learned to use other folks design and stitch it into what I'm trying to accomplish, there is nothing new under the hood, so like Sluckeys suggested start with a known quantity, tweak and smile, or cuss, fix, then smile.
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David Linley who played with Jackson Brown had a Dumble Steel String Singer
! No longer available (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AXrl8Grmh2g#)
Lots of info on The Amp Garage regarding this design. You can do a search there.
Here is one thread: http://ampgarage.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=20662&highlight=steel+string+singer (http://ampgarage.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=20662&highlight=steel+string+singer)
That would certainly meet your criteria of switches and tone options. Just a thought to consider.
There are some editable SCH Dumblish type files regarding SSS types here:
http://ampgarage.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=17449 (http://ampgarage.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=17449)
With respect, Tubenit
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How clean do you want it?
You might want to go with 6550's or KT88/KT90/KT120's.
Dumble's power amp/output stage are pretty much a Fender Twins 4x6L6GC but with 4x6550's. He even used Fender iron for the early 1's.
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How clean do you want it?
You might want to go with 6550's or KT88/KT90/KT120's.
Dumble's power amp/output stage are pretty much a Fender Twins 4x6L6GC but with 4x6550's. He even used Fender iron for the early 1's.
Well I'm not sure yet as I just started to brainstorm this idea. I do know steel players love loud clean amps which is why Peavey SS were and still are very popular among most of these guys. The Little Walter stuff kinda took off for a minute too as Paul Franklin was a big endorsee of the LW. I tried one for a week and sold it, not for me at all. The talk around town is a lot of steel players are going back to good ole tubes but don't care for the fender scooped out mids. I was thinking a good 4 6L6 amp with lots of clean headroom and very adjustable tone stack might just fit the bill....
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David Linley who played with Jackson Brown had a Dumble Steel String Singer
! No longer available (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AXrl8Grmh2g#)
Lots of info on The Amp Garage regarding this design. You can do a search there.
Here is one thread: http://ampgarage.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=20662&highlight=steel+string+singer (http://ampgarage.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=20662&highlight=steel+string+singer)
That would certainly meet your criteria of switches and tone options. Just a thought to consider.
There are some editable SCH Dumblish type files regarding SSS types here:
http://ampgarage.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=17449 (http://ampgarage.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=17449)
With respect, Tubenit
I never really thought of a D style amp as a steel amp. But then again, call me weird, but I don't like them much for guitar either. I played through a few REAL Dumbles and I was like, "Whats all the fuss"
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lots of clean headroom
one of the *design* things I have learned here, if you don't overdrive the tube and bias it *correctly* it stays clean. fwiw
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The talk around town is a lot of steel players are going back to good ole tubes but don't care for the fender scooped out mids. ....... and very adjustable tone stack might just fit the bill....
You know how to change the mid pot on a Fender TMB stack to get rid of the scooped sound. Or maybe an Ampeg style preamp with a Baxandall tone stack. It's a nice clean preamp. Or maybe 2 channels, 1 Fender BF, the other an Ampeg? Plenty of mods for both tone stacks that you can play with on a TS sim program on line.
I was thinking a good 4 6L6 amp with lots of clean headroom
"lots of clean headroom" depends on the room your playing in. '1 man's ceiling is another mans floor.'
SRV used a Marshall Major 200w, 4xKT88's (real KT88's) for his 'clean' sound live.
6550's, KT88/KT90/KT120's are harder to get them to break up then 6L6GC's.
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The talk around town is a lot of steel players are going back to good ole tubes but don't care for the fender scooped out mids. ....... and very adjustable tone stack might just fit the bill....
You know how to change the mid pot on a Fender TMB stack to get rid of the scooped sound. Or maybe an Ampeg style preamp with a Baxandall tone stack. It's a nice clean preamp. Or maybe 2 channels, 1 Fender BF, the other an Ampeg? Plenty of mods for both tone stacks that you can play with on a TS sim program on line.
I was thinking a good 4 6L6 amp with lots of clean headroom
"lots of clean headroom" depends on the room your playing in. '1 man's ceiling is another mans floor.'
SRV used a Marshall Major 200w, 4xKT88's (real KT88's) for his 'clean' sound live.
6550's, KT88/KT90/KT120's are harder to get them to break up then 6L6GC's.
Hi Willabe,
Yeah I know about the TS mods and how to boost mids and such. I think in my mind though I am thinking of the stock sound and then being able to add much more adjustment options. Steel players seem to love little switches LOL...
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I played through a few REAL Dumbles and I was like, "Whats all the fuss"
1. Some big names were playing them, SRV, Eric Johnson, David Lyndley.
2. They were hard to get your hands on let alone own 1. They were somewhat of a 'mystery'.
3. To make them even more of a mystery, he poured epoxy on the preamp circuity so nobody could see it. :laugh:
4. Even if you had the $ to put down a deposit for and could get a hold of him to build you 1, it took a loooong time to finally get it, as much as a year or more. :w2: :l2:
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Yeah I know about the TS mods and how to boost mids and such. I think in my mind though I am thinking of the stock sound and then being able to add much more adjustment options. Steel players seem to love little switches LOL...
So add some if it makes them happy. :icon_biggrin:
You could put a rotary switch on the preamp K bypass cap to switch in different values. Or a rotary treble bypass switch on the volume control to switch in different treble bypass caps.
Or a parallel/single triode switch on the input triode.
A switch or 2 to change the values of the bass/mid TS caps. 1 setting will be stock the other some mod?
A NFB switch to change the NFB tap on the OT secondary, K. O'Connor calls this a 'vibe' switch as it will change the feel of the amps response.
A switch to change the value of the 1st coupling cap.
I know Ed, Tubenite and DL (Pete) and many others here, all have a bunch of stuff to try. :icon_biggrin:
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I played through a few REAL Dumbles and I was like, "Whats all the fuss"
1. Some big names were playing them, SRV, Eric Johnson, David Lyndley.
2. They were hard to get your hands on let alone own 1. They were somewhat of a 'mystery'.
3. To make them even more of a mystery, he poured epoxy on the preamp circuity so nobody could see it. :laugh:
4. Even if you had the $ to put down a deposit for and could get a hold of him to build you 1, it took a loooong time to finally get it, as much as a year or more. :w2: :l2:
Well those Dumbles have been reverse engineered to the max so the mystery is gone. Now it all about spending a fortune to own one and get bragging rights. I know Robben Ford and Carlton play em too but they also have great hands. I've heard Robben play through a Super with a Zendrive and sound exactly how he always sounds... Just sayin
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Now it all about spending a fortune to own one and get bragging rights.
Sure, just like owning a Trainwreck. :icon_biggrin:
I know Robben Ford and Carlton play em too but they also have great hands. I've heard Robben play through a Super with a Zendrive and sound exactly how he always sounds... Just sayin
Yeah, 'great hands'.
I was lucky enough to see a good number of the older Chgo. blues men that were still alive and playing in the 80's when I was hanging out in the clubs.
Hubert Summlin (Howllin Wolfs guitar player) to name 1 no matter who's guitar/amp he played through if he would sit in always sounded the same.
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Paul Franklin's steel sounds really good to my ears and so does Norm Hamlet's. Last time I saw Paul he was playing a Little Walter, but a higher powered one with 4 6L6's. I looked at it and it is all octal pre and said it was an old bassman circuit.
I saw Norm in Carrolton with Merle and he was using a Solid State Peavy and sounded great.
Cowboy lives near me and I have worked on his amp. He uses an old SUNN head and a Peavey Mace, but I prefer the tone of Norm live the most. Maybe because of the intro to Swinging Doors and not the amp. :icon_biggrin:
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I never really thought of a D style amp as a steel amp. But then again, call me weird, but I don't like them much for guitar either. I played through a few REAL Dumbles and I was like, "Whats all the fuss"
Please keep in mind that the SSS Dumble is NOT like an Overdrive Special Dumble. Very different amps. Did you actually look at the SSS schematic? IF not, compare it with the Overdrive Specials. Again very different amps.
I have zero agenda for you at all. You stated a clean amp with switches for tone options for a steel guitar. The SSS certainly fits the criteria that you laid out. (They are not an OD amp and have some unique features to keep a clean tone such as using a CF in the phase invertor)
You could simply build a Fender Twin or Super Reverb and consider the Dumble switching such as mid-boost, PAB (pre-amp boost), rock/jazz, etc.....
You have many great options and other suggestions from the guys on the forum. I think you'll come up with something great for the guy that's asking you to build it.
:thumbsup:
With respect, Tubenit
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Mike you might want to look at this thread?
http://el34world.com/Forum/index.php?topic=15679.msg199737#msg199737 (http://el34world.com/Forum/index.php?topic=15679.msg199737#msg199737)
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Going to pull off this thread for a minute as I have a problem.
Woke up this morning at 3am and could not move my left hand... Vanderbilt said it was some sort of calcium tendon thing. I'm in a lot of pain and amp building and guitar playing is not possible right now. They gave me some sort of hardcore steroids and pain meds you can't drive with. So I'm on restriction my wife says LOL. I tried to sneak out to the garage and got busted...
Thanks fellas
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Wow Mike, take care of that arm. Sorry to hear.
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I'll be praying for you. :w2:
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I'll be praying for you. :w2:
Yes, prayers do work and thank you for that...
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sorry to read this. do take care and sending get well soon wishes.
--pete
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I'm sad to hear of your hand problem. I have a "trigger finger" on both hands that sort of locks in place and become quite painful. Cortisone shots have helped but surgery is recommended. Hope you heal soon. With respect, Tubenit
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I'll be praying for you
adding a +1
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Thanks a lot guys, I do appreciate it. And of course I just got an email someone want a PR LOL...
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Confession time.... I snuck out in the garage last night and finished up a 71 Bandmaster complete service :) No one ever knew...
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Thanks a lot guys, I do appreciate it. And of course I just got an email someone want a PR LOL...
(sick humor) I'm sure you can do a PR with one hand tied behind your back. :wink:
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Thanks a lot guys, I do appreciate it. And of course I just got an email someone want a PR LOL...
(sick humor) I'm sure you can do a PR with one hand tied behind your back. :wink:
Ha! :l2:
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Hey Mike - hope you get better quickly. Not being able to work in the shop is one thing. Not being able to play guitar is worse, at least for me. Glad you have Vanderbilt close by.
Take care,
Chip
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Hey Mike - hope you get better quickly. Not being able to work in the shop is one thing. Not being able to play guitar is worse, at least for me. Glad you have Vanderbilt close by.
Take care,
Chip
Hey, good news... My hand is feeling much better now. Maybe I just needed a few days off. I am guessing that in a week I will be back to my ole self... Thx
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So I take it you have that PR halfway done by now? :icon_biggrin:
That's good news!
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Hey, that's great Mike! :blob8:
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So I take it you have that PR halfway done by now? :icon_biggrin:
:laugh: Yeah, he probably is.
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So I take it you have that PR halfway done by now? :icon_biggrin:
That's good news!
Ha! Alright you guys.... I still don't have parts so I get to rest
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Hey, listen to mama! :icon_biggrin:
That's part of what I've been prayin for you. :laugh:
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Hey, listen to mama! :icon_biggrin:
That's part of what I've been prayin for you. :laugh:
Prayers are working, hand is way better, That was scary for a minute.
So I took the rainy weekend to organize the assembly bench and order some supplies from Doug. The test bench is next!
(http://p2pamps.com/bench.jpg)