Hoffman Amplifiers Tube Amplifier Forum
Amp Stuff => Tube Amp Building - Tweaks - Repairs => Topic started by: paintballnsk on December 30, 2015, 01:08:48 am
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Title says it all.
Does anyone know of any schematics of the Jose Arrendondo Marshall Mods?
I found one that adds a 12AX7 with a .68/2.7k cathode bypass on each stage right before the guitar and a couple other small tweaks.
Thanks
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Hi there, try this (https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&site=imghp&tbm=isch&source=hp&biw=1880&bih=908&q=Jose+Arredondo+Marshall+Mods&oq=Jose+Arredondo+Marshall+Mods&gs_l=img.3...2611.4743.0.5942.2.2.0.0.0.0.82.161.2.2.0....0...1ac.1.64.img..2.0.0.v_QKS_4uFrw#imgrc=3sOkeg06cf4HfM%3A) maybe you can find something!! :think1:
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Let's assume I've already googled it :icon_biggrin:
I found the one hand drawn diagram. It looks like he added a preamp tube so the 2204 could have 2 channels each with 3 gain stages, instead of one with 3 and one that bypasses a gain stage. And it looks like he added an effects loop to each channel.
I was hoping someone here would be familiar with it. I'm particularly confused why some amp tweakers are charging $1100 for this. Like if I just wanted the tone for one channel, it really looks as simple as changing two gain stage's cathode bypass values and maybe a couple other small tweaks. But nothing that warrants $1100 lol.
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paintballnsk I'm particularly confused why some amp tweakers are charging $1100 for this. Like if I just wanted the tone for one channel, it really looks as simple as changing two gain stage's cathode bypass values and maybe a couple other small tweaks. But nothing that warrants $1100 lol.
Story I've heard regarding the guy who designed Henry Fords assembly line. One day it breaks down and Ford has his engineers work on it; try to fix it and all, to no avail... So he sends for the guy that designed the line; tells him to get it running again. Long story short- The line is up and running again in about an hour. The engineer hands Ford a bill for $1000! Ford says, "What's this for? You only tinkered with this line for hardly an hour. I need this bill itemized so I can understand it" Guy takes the bill and scribbles- Tinkering on assembly line, $1.00. Knowing where to tinker, $999.00. As the story goes Ford paid the bill promptly.
Yes I agree $1100 is an outrageous amount to charge for a simple mod but how stupid or ignorant is someone that pays that much? On the other hand, some of those Rock Stars make huge amounts of money for, "bangin on them bottles like a chimpanzee". And the CEO's of a say, pharmaceutical company prolly make $1100/hr to market drugs. "that ain’t workin"
Now if you really want to see lol frustration take a car to most mechanics and see yourself get billed $400-$1000 for a repair that doesn't address the original problem. But they'll be happy to take another look at it...
Is the mod in the schematic authentic? It seems to me there is also a Resonance component to the Mod.
silverfox.
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Have you tried changing your browser to Bing or anything else it seems our computer was always on Google Chrome because that's what my girl has it on but on a whim I changed it to Bing one day and was blown away by the content the tons more schematics and the way they were laid out was really nice with schematics all broken down into subgroups... funny I was looking up the same Jose mods for a guy who usually has mark Cameron do his stuff but couldn't get ahold of him I'm pretty sure that resonance mod thing is the part of the negative feedback. Hey funny story sort of related I used to work with Cameron at a place called the gear Trader in Huntington Beach and this was before I knew what I know now about amps and I hit him up to do my 73 super lead... Retu bit with brand new el34 that I supplied and re-bias from the 6l6's that were in it I had to pick it up at his house although I had expected to come back to the shop not really a huge deal but imagine my surprise when it has used 6550's in it that he said I would like better. Along with master volume mod then I didn't ask for it was the one that when you defeat it the amp goes back to stock but I still never used it. Things like that were a big part of me going out and learning on my phone own. Oh and don't even get me started on cars. I had to pay some schmuck 200 clams to rearrange the fuses in my old ladies Jetta it went to one mechanic and SAT there and then to another mechanic and it took me who was out of town of the time to figure out that a friend had changed around the fuses so basically I figured out what was wrong with the car not them and because I was out of town had to pay him too or just rearrange the fuses and he charges me 200 bucks! Most of those mods come straight out of that spiral bound Marshall book 1 written by the guy in Long Beach the cover has pencil drawing squiggly rock and roll guy on the cover and the whole package comes with a video also it's an old book but it still is viable today
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:w2:
I had a resonance mod on my amp. I hated it so I removed it haha. It's a good idea, but it was really ruining the dynamics of the amp.
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I had a resonance mod on my amp. I hated it so I removed it haha. It's a good idea, but it was really ruining the dynamics of the amp.
It responds differently to different amps. I have it on my Soldano and cannot imagine life without it. I installed the same mod on my Mig60 and didn't like it at all and promptly removed it.
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Mine was the Soldano implementation. The amp was a handwired clone of the Soldano Atomic 16. The thing really opened up after I bypassed it. Try it on yours and see if you like it. All you need to do is bypass the pot and cap with a lead. It's a piece of cake.
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... I'm particularly confused why some amp tweakers are charging $1100 for this. Like if I just wanted the tone for one channel, it really looks as simple as changing two gain stage's cathode bypass values and maybe a couple other small tweaks. But nothing that warrants $1100 lol.
You're able to tinker your own amp, so you're not the target audience. Cost factor could be a number of things, including the ability of customers to pay (and the cost of living where the modder is located).
I haven't owned a Gibson Les Paul for almost 20 years because of Gibson's price structure/philosophy. Which also amounts to "I can't afford to buy one." But this year I'm able to afford one and really wanted a Les Paul, so I bought a custom shop model. I could have bought a different model and some outstanding pickups and had the same sound, possibly same playability. And I may still do that in the future.
Coming back from the detour, we don't know the schematic you have is "the mod". Or even if there is only one "Arredondo Mod" (though some folks on others forums dedicated to only Marshalls might know). It might be a case like Dumble where the high price isn't justified by the intrinsic value of the amp/mod itself, but the fact that the modder works directly with an artist, listens to their vague descriptions of what they want, and custom-engineer something which delivers it. And usually those situations don't mean engineering the solution once, but going through several iterations as the customer tests out the amp and asks for further changes. That's a lot of time spent, and bench time is the biggest % of any repair/mod bill (for guitars/amps as well as cars).
My new Les Paul is pretty sweet, but part of the choice to go custom shop is the high resale value if I choose to do that compared to other options. The name/model is held in high esteem so I don't have to worry about depreciation as much. I don't know which modders you were talking about, but some are famous enough to add resale value to an amp they've modded. And some changes may be valued enough by the present market (legitimately or not) that an amp tweaker might have customers even though the work is priced very high.
Going back to the Les Paul comparison, I saw a guitar "conversion" recently that made me laugh. Someone took probably a Les Paul Classic, refinished the top, installed different pickups and "crap-ified" (my opinion) the hardware/finish to create an aged effect. They were charging $3k more for their aged guitar than the price of a used LP Classic. Someone might value the conversion that highly; I doubt it will fare well in the resale market 10-15 years from now.
Most of the above is to say the price people charge for mods is immaterial to you if you're just looking to understand how/why something is changed or to make the change to your own amp. The economics only matter for you if you're paying someone to do the work, or looking to make a living doing it yourself.
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People are idiots for buying relics. I hope that market crashes like tulips. It's nonsense trendy bs that can't possibly add value to a once beautiful instrument. Relic it yourself by playing it and abusing it you tool lol.
And with Gibsons.. buy used. #1 they will hold almost the exact same used value for about 20 years if not go up a little. #2 Gibson's consistency is notoriously shit. Every Les Paul is a little different, and you're rolling the dice by buying one without playing it first.
Anyway, I thought the Jose mod was a more "standard" thing. I guess it's just some famous guy that modified amps for Metallica and Van Halen. So there's not really any easy way to pin point "THE" Jose mod.
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Jose had many different mods over the years as he was chasing the tone his clients were looking for on different Marshall models. All you have to do is look at a few sites where owners talk about "their" custom Jose mods and how much they differed to a friend's Jose mod. His professional client base was huge and diverse as well. I'm sure Neil Schon had no desire to sound like Ed VH and visa versa.
As far as the cost? What price would you put on your capabilities? You have asked a lot of questions on this forum that were very kindly answered by people with vast experience - even asking them to trace out a circuit for you. People took time out of their day and freely gave you advice based on years and years of experience. What would that be worth to you if you had to pay for it? It's no different than the guitar HBP bought or the Ford assembly line engineer Silverfox was talking about. Just because you can wield a soldering iron and can copy something someone else has ripped off from the originator does not diminish the value to someone who doesn't have the ability or knowledge.
Jim
Jim
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Your guys help has been invaluable, and I have never showed any sign of being ungrateful for the help.
There's an experienced amp tech in town. He is a Peavey repair center among others, builds classic amps and pickups from scratch, etc... He knows his stuff. If I handed him a 2203 and a schematic that had 4-5 cathode bypass changes on it that someone called a "Jose" mod, I'm pretty sure he would be in the $65-75 range for the mod. Not $1100. He's fair. He charges like $60/hour plus parts, and he does a fantastic job. Again, I mistakenly thought there was "The Jose Mod" for a marshall, and the one I'm looking at looks fairly simple to implement on one channel.
I run a recording studio. I'm not unfamiliar with people devaluing skills, experience, or large investment in equipment. It's a rollercoaster lol. Musicians will pay $2000 for a guitar, and $400 for a Line 6. Musicians will pay $2000 for a fantastic amp and then put it through a cardboard behringer cabinet. Musicians will buy a $200 cabinet and put $400 in speakers in it. You put a number like $35 an hour on a well produced recording of their music, and their heads explode. It's amazing.
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No, I wasn't insinuating you were ungrateful. I was trying to correlate value with experience. Jose was a tech to the stars. When you have that cred and a back room full of amps for those guys, you can charge what you want. The legend grows and perpetuates. Therefore anything associated with the name = $$$$$. Look at Dumble.
Isn't it a $2000 guitar into a $100 Line 6 pod? Or a $2000 amp with a Big Muff in front of it? Of course all those items were in layaway for 2 years and will be in the pawn shop in another year. :icon_biggrin:
Jim
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Someone in the Post mentioned going to Bing and all the fantastic results that came up. I did and found some information as follows:
http://www.bing.com/search?q=+Jose+Arrendondo+Marshall+Mods&go=Submit+Query&qs=bs&form=QBLH (http://www.bing.com/search?q=+Jose+Arrendondo+Marshall+Mods&go=Submit+Query&qs=bs&form=QBLH)
And some video: http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=schematic+jose+arredondo+marshall+mods&view=detail&mid=C3E6E80D296992858CEFC3E6E80D296992858CEF&FORM=VIRE5 (http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=schematic+jose+arredondo+marshall+mods&view=detail&mid=C3E6E80D296992858CEFC3E6E80D296992858CEF&FORM=VIRE5)
I may have to Bling Bing after this... Usually I DuckDuckGo,
silverfox.
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Mine was the Soldano implementation. The amp was a handwired clone of the Soldano Atomic 16. The thing really opened up after I bypassed it. Try it on yours and see if you like it. All you need to do is bypass the pot and cap with a lead. It's a piece of cake.
The wiper on the depth control pot shorts out or bypasses the pot and cap when it is set to minimum. I may try it inside my home brew 2204 if I can find room. Tight squeeze with little extra real estate in that one.
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Usually I DuckDuckGo
same here, but if you want extended searches, or depth, the duck lacks some quack :icon_biggrin: