Hoffman Amplifiers Tube Amplifier Forum

Amp Stuff => Tube Amp Building - Tweaks - Repairs => Topic started by: super&plexi on June 21, 2016, 12:42:10 am

Title: Does altitude affect running temperature
Post by: super&plexi on June 21, 2016, 12:42:10 am
I usually run  my stuff around sea level, ( home and gigs)but  lately have been at about 6500 feet, and noticed my super Reverb rectifier glowing really yellow on the plate and the amp running much hotter than I'm used to, and PT was quite hot.  Wall AC was 121 and usually ran 119 - 122 in California. Quite often I would run it through a variac at 1:10 or so but just as often would run straight in the wall /Mains and never remember it being this hot. I guess I'll open it and see what's up but if the consensus is that things run higher at higher altitude and the seemingly larger glow in  my rectifier may not be cause for alarm that I may just slip it back on the variac and turn it down some. Any thoughts? Thanks.   Also I really like the variance in rectifier choices in regards to voltage drop and wonder if adding solid state diodes for safety would change  much. Am I correct in assuming unless it's a FWB that it would only further lower B+ X a volt or so, which would be fine. I just wouldn't want any raises in B+
Title: Re: Does altitude affect running temperature
Post by: trobbins on June 21, 2016, 03:33:59 am
Convective cooling relies on the mass flow of air past the parts to transfer away heat as an increase in air temp.  If the density of air is noticably lower then the ability to cool parts is less, and hence their nominal operating temp increases to compensate (ie. radiative and conductive transfer now takes away a higher percentage of the heat transfer).
Title: Re: Does altitude affect running temperature
Post by: p2pAmps on June 21, 2016, 06:33:11 am
In my younger days I played many tube amps in Lake Tahoe NV and never had issues with hot running amps.  I believe Tahoe is between 6-7K feet. 
Title: Re: Does altitude affect running temperature
Post by: drgonzonm on June 21, 2016, 07:03:37 am
Yes to altitude, and yes to safety diodes. 

Humidity also has an effect
Title: Re: Does altitude affect running temperature
Post by: sluckey on June 21, 2016, 07:14:42 am
Just a bit of trivia... Many mil spec transformers actually had a max altitude rating that means the transformer was tested and guaranteed to operate up to that altitude.
Title: Re: Does altitude affect running temperature
Post by: Paul1453 on June 21, 2016, 04:25:05 pm
Lots of old military parts seemed to have an altitude rating.
I'm guessing that was necessary for use in aircraft.

I don't think that altitude has an effect on magnetic fields though.   :dontknow:

Our transformers work on those magnetic field principles.

As was mentioned, air density may have an effect on the cooling properties of the air flow.
I suspect that thinner, drier air could cause your gear to run hotter.   :dontknow:
Title: Re: Does altitude affect running temperature
Post by: drgonzonm on June 21, 2016, 05:49:29 pm

I suspect that thinner, drier air could cause your gear to run hotter.   :dontknow:

When one discusses humidity, one discusses the partial pressure of water, which is temperature dependent.  The higher the humidity the lower the density of air.  Dry air has an average molecular weight of about 29.  and water has a molecular weight of 18.  So as humidity increases, air density decreases.  (I got lost finding info on the specific heat at constant pressure for air and water vapor)

I'm voting your gear runs hotter at higher humidity. (relative humidity) 
Title: Re: Does altitude affect running temperature
Post by: Paul1453 on June 21, 2016, 05:56:55 pm

I suspect that thinner, drier air could cause your gear to run hotter.   :dontknow:

When one discusses humidity, one discusses the partial pressure of water, which is temperature dependent.  The higher the humidity the lower the density of air.  Dry air has an average molecular weight of about 29.  and water has a molecular weight of 18.  So as humidity increases, air density decreases.  (I got lost finding info on the specific heat at constant pressure for air and water vapor)

I'm voting your gear runs hotter at higher humidity. (relative humidity)
I'll accept that scientific evidence.   :laugh:

My question is the cooling value of the humidity, if any.
I theorized that the higher humidity might cool things better.  Maybe not?
Title: Re: Does altitude affect running temperature
Post by: trobbins on June 21, 2016, 07:27:48 pm
Trying to gauge the effect of humidity is probably 'down in the noise'.  The density of air is lower (as humidity increases), but not by much relative to the altitude increase being described.  The radiative cooling performance may well be a titch better with increased humidity - but that would be splitting hairs also.


A dirty glass envelope, or surrounding nearby objects that have a hot surface, or locating the amp such that free air flow is more restricted than before, or the sense of temperature is skewed by the OP being in a different climate and altitude, are probably bigger concerns.  Or as inferred, a fault has developed during transport between countries.
Title: Re: Does altitude affect running temperature
Post by: drgonzonm on June 30, 2016, 05:27:46 pm
I am revising my thoughts, equipment should run somewhat cooler at higher relative humidities.  The Cp for water vapor is about 1.86
for room temperature and the Cp for air is about 1.  all from the net. 

Just don't pour beer on your amp to cool it.