Hoffman Amplifiers Tube Amplifier Forum
Other Stuff => Guitars => Topic started by: jjasilli on July 09, 2016, 10:37:24 pm
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Just finished installing a K&K Pure Western Mini PU in my circa 1980 Guild F-212NT 12 string. It's 3 under the soundboard piezzo transducers that mount with superglue gel to the bridge plate inside the guitar > endpin jack > amp. It has enough output & impedance friendliness to drive a standard guitar tube amp without the absolute requirement of a preamp, etc.
I plugged it into my Alamo Capri which is a dark sounding amp. The PU is very clear, transparent and acoustic sounding. It seems very bright, with little low end -- but to my surprise it matches the tone of the guitar unplugged. I'm using light gauge strings. I want more bass. K&K makes a PU especially for 12-string, with more low end response, but I couldn't find any reviews of it. It's a bit late for that now.
So I'm thinking: heavier gauge strings, and tune down a whole step?; and/or eq. I'll take it for a test ride in the real world at an open mic, acoustic blues jam on Monday evening with preamp, eq etc.
UPDATE: Heavier gauge bass strings -- E A D -- now yield proper bass.
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Looking forward to how it does live. I really do live under a rock, I haven't heard about any of these pickups you've talked about. Then again, that's why I come here. haha Thanks for your reviews!
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Live test will have to wait. The heavier gauge bass strings sound great, but really screwed up the action / set-up. Looks like nut, saddle and neck relief need work. On a 12-string, that battle is not for me. Will take it to a luthier for set-up.
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Posting this for whoever might want to install these (like me). Excellent tutorial on installing those pups.
http://www.cavalierpickups.com/frettech/kk/index.html (http://www.cavalierpickups.com/frettech/kk/index.html)
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Thanks, John. For the 3 PU's I used the K&K jig which installs one disk @ a time. Once you get the hang of it, the 3 @ a time method looks attractive.
I use a different method to enlarge the endpin hole. I try not to use el drills on hollow body guitars. I prefer a hand drill. My method: remove endpin, leaving empty hole. Use a 1/2" chamfering bit to enlarge the outside end of the hole at a tapered angle. This is good because a straight bit will bite hard into the finish and might tear-off large chips; and might tear out wood too.
I have a HSS wood drill set in 64th" increments. Find the bit that just fits freely into the existing hole. Then chuck the next larger bit into the hand drill & drill though the end pin block. Repeat with progressively larger bits. The endpin jack will fit a hole 2 sizes smaller than 1/2". Though the HSS bits have an aggressive bite for a hand drill, it doesn't matter because the chamfering bit has already gotten below surface.
Alternatively a reamer could be used, but I don't have one. Chamfering is still recommended to protect the finish from chipping. A spherical grinding bit could also be used to chamfer. I don't trust masking tape alone.
A GeorgeL plug fits through the enlarged hole, and is a great way to fish the endpin jack through the hole.
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I love the K&K pwm pickups on my Larrivee. Great tone!
Jeff
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Ah hah, I didn't read the part about their own jig! If I get 'em, I think I'll do it that way. I'm not the most gifted person I know.
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I sell about 20-30 of these a year, and for some situations they are really awesome pickups. They are not the most resistant to feedback, but they do have a very nice, rich, complex sound. I wouldn't call them lacking in bass, though, so I think that might have been something else in the system. And while you are right, they do better than most passive systems without a preamp, if you run a cable much beyond 10 feet you ARE going to start loosing low end.
Honestly, I don't think the larger elements sound much different. I think you are going get a lot further getting yourself a Para D.I., or something similar. I'm not particularly wild about the K&K preamps, myself (it's just a pretty straight forward TL072 amplifier with some simple tone controls, and the build quality isn't great), but I do have some customers who are great players, and have really great ears, who are very fond of them, so I think it's a bit of a Fender vs. Marshall kind of thing.
Gabriel
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Thanks for the input, Gabe. It turns out that my lack of bass was caused by the use of extra light strings. I never noticed it before, until I heard the guitar sound played back at me through an amp. I need the extra light strings on this guitar, so I compromised and used 3 heavier bass strings for E A D from a 13-gauge set. Bottom end is now there!!! The K&K PWM PU sounds great; and the action is still playable.
However the use of the 3 heavier bass strings did require a full new setup, which I had done by my luthier.
I plan to add Schatten thumbwheel controls for vol & tone at the soundhole.
Meanwhile, I just took delivery of a K&K Spider Bridge PU to install in one of my resonator guitars.
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By the way, they dropped the "Western", it's just the Pure Mini, now.
They are very good sounding pickups, though they will never get terribly loud. I sell a lot of Fishman Matrix Infinity pickups, too, and we have them both mounted in a guitar here in the shop, which is intended to help people decide which is right for them, but because of the environment kind of gives the K&K an unfair advantage. You might occasionally have to compete with a band saw around here, but never a drummer or a B-3 player!
Gabriel
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The simplicity of the K&K passive system is what won me over. It sounds good & works for my purposes which is small venues and jams. By "simplicity" I mean NO BATTERIES or preamp needed. I detest batteries. I toyed with the idea of phantom power for an onboard preamp-- but if the venue doesn't support it, you need to carry your own outboard box, blah blah.
Schatten now makes the Artist 2 in-line endpin jack Preamp which accepts 48V phantom power. I was tempted to try that, but just don't need the complexity.
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Well, to be fair, Fishman's preamp is extremely efficient - the specs are 1000 hours on a 9V battery. In practice, heavy users will usually get about 6 months out of a battery, and I've seen people get 4-5 years out of a battery, if they don't use it much.
Gabriel