Hoffman Amplifiers Tube Amplifier Forum

Amp Stuff => Tube Amp Building - Tweaks - Repairs => Topic started by: MikePR on December 03, 2016, 10:55:15 am

Title: Fender Hot Rod Deville blackface conversion
Post by: MikePR on December 03, 2016, 10:55:15 am
Hi y'all:

With some Fender Hot Rod Deville Iron decide to make a single channel no reverb blackface head. Here is the work i have so far. Any input?

Thx

Title: Re: Fender Hot Rod Deville blackface conversion
Post by: sluckey on December 03, 2016, 11:55:34 am
Here are a few things that need attention...

Bias supply... You have a diode directly across the PT bias winding. Remove it or it will be destroyed when you apply power. If it shorts it will take out the PT also. The 22µF cap on the wiper of the bias pot is drawn backwards. Positive must go to ground.

V1B pin 6 has a 100K to ground. Remove that resistor.

V2B pin 7 must have a resistor to ground. V2B is gonna make this a high gain amp. I would eliminate V2 circuit completely (like the normal channel).


Title: Re: Fender Hot Rod Deville blackface conversion
Post by: eleventeen on December 03, 2016, 12:01:58 pm
Looks pretty good, except I'm not sure what the purpose of V2 is. That tube (and you are only using half of it) *could* be used as an additional (variable) gain stage (meaning a "pre-gain" and "post gain" kind of topology) and I can assure you, a single triode gain stage inserted into the signal chain can make an astronomical difference in the type of amp it is....


I am referring to an AA763 non-reverb BF Deluxe which you can find in Doug's schem library. In that amp, the tube right after the tone controls (which we know we need bec the tone controls whack the signal a lot) feed DIRECTLY into the PI. In other words, if we lose one channel and we lose tremolo, that amp has 2 nine pin tubes and that's the end of it. Preamp > PI > 6V6.


Even an AA763 Bandmaster (driving 6L6 where maybe we'd think we need more voltage gain) does not have your V2)


If I was building the amp and wished for it to be an utterly stock BF amp, I imagine your V2 could be deleted. But I would find it very hard to resist punching out for a socket for that third tube even if this discussion leads you to believe that your V2 is not needed, in case I wished to hot-rod the amp later on.


Ed: Oops, Sluckey is right, remove the north-south bias rect diode
Title: Re: Fender Hot Rod Deville blackface conversion
Post by: MikePR on December 03, 2016, 12:19:34 pm
Thanx for the input. Here is the latest fixed.
Title: Re: Fender Hot Rod Deville blackface conversion
Post by: 2deaf on December 03, 2016, 12:36:57 pm
There is a diode directly across the HT winding, also.

There is no feedback resistor.

An on/off switch might be handy.
Title: Re: Fender Hot Rod Deville blackface conversion
Post by: sluckey on December 03, 2016, 12:56:22 pm
You really don't need the .047 and 220K that are connected to V1B pin 6.

Move the bottom HT lead to the junction of the bottom diodes to fix the error that 2deaf mentioned.

Add a 820Ω resistor in the NFB line.
Title: Re: Fender Hot Rod Deville blackface conversion
Post by: MikePR on December 03, 2016, 01:29:24 pm
Wow thx. And i thought i did not miss anything. Version 3.  :BangHead: :laugh:



Title: Re: Fender Hot Rod Deville blackface conversion
Post by: MikePR on December 03, 2016, 03:16:02 pm
Does it look good now?
Title: Re: Fender Hot Rod Deville blackface conversion
Post by: sluckey on December 03, 2016, 05:21:01 pm
The two resistors connected to the filament string should be 100Ω, not 100K.

How much voltage do you measure between the brown wires on the PT?
Title: Re: Fender Hot Rod Deville blackface conversion
Post by: MikePR on December 04, 2016, 06:11:59 am
72.5 vdc. And fixed the 100 ohm pilot light resistors,
Title: Re: Fender Hot Rod Deville blackface conversion
Post by: 2deaf on December 04, 2016, 01:34:11 pm
72.5 vdc. And fixed the 100 ohm pilot light resistors,

DC?

I am a little bit skeptical about the DeVille bias circuit giving acceptable voltages once the rest of the circuit on that winding has been eliminated.  If there is around 72V AC on the unloaded secondary, the attached standard bias circuit may be better.
Title: Re: Fender Hot Rod Deville blackface conversion
Post by: MikePR on December 04, 2016, 03:03:15 pm
Thx

Here is the PT Specs:

40-18018

Title: Re: Fender Hot Rod Deville blackface conversion
Post by: sluckey on December 04, 2016, 03:26:20 pm
Do you really have a Mercury Magnetics power transformer in this Deville? Regardless, I want to know "How much voltage do you measure between the brown wires on the PT?" I'm not interested in some dc voltage on a data sheet.
Title: Re: Fender Hot Rod Deville blackface conversion
Post by: MikePR on December 04, 2016, 04:28:12 pm
53 VAC measured from brown to brown. PT is stock Fender one.
Title: Re: Fender Hot Rod Deville blackface conversion
Post by: 2deaf on December 04, 2016, 04:33:19 pm
Here is the PT Specs:  40-18018

Ah.  Now I see.  There is a voltage doubler using the center tap and one of the brown leads.  Your original two diode drawing would work if you use Brn/Yel and Brn as the leads and put the capacitor between the diodes and a lead.  Center tap to brown lead is shown as 28V AC on a Blues DeVille schematic.
Title: Re: Fender Hot Rod Deville blackface conversion
Post by: MikePR on December 04, 2016, 04:48:15 pm
Can i use your bias schematic if i use brown to brown instead brown to Brown/yellow?
Title: Re: Fender Hot Rod Deville blackface conversion
Post by: sluckey on December 04, 2016, 04:56:33 pm
53 VAC measured from brown to brown. PT is stock Fender one.
No need for a voltage doubler circuit. 53VAC is perfect for the simple bias circuit you show in your last schematic drawing. Although I prefer the circuit 2deaf posted. Connect one brown to the resistor. Connect the other brown to chassis ground.

Is this the same project you were working on back in August, September, and November of 2015?
Title: Re: Fender Hot Rod Deville blackface conversion
Post by: MikePR on December 04, 2016, 05:09:03 pm
Yes the same one. Got busy at work and have to stop, also decide to go the simple way with no reverb route.
Title: Re: Fender Hot Rod Deville blackface conversion
Post by: 2deaf on December 04, 2016, 05:50:35 pm
Can i use your bias schematic if i use brown to brown instead brown to Brown/yellow?

No.  That was for 72V AC. 

You will probably have to remove the 51K resistor and maybe even change the 10K resistor to 4.7K in order to get -55V in the center of the range.
Title: Re: Fender Hot Rod Deville blackface conversion
Post by: MikePR on May 24, 2017, 01:44:03 pm
Well guys I finished the Project but need help with 2 issues.

1) I want to lower B+ from 514v
2) Need a 60 hz hum eliminator circuit for it.
3) Any opinion to improve it is also welcome.

here are the schematics;

Title: Re: Fender Hot Rod Deville blackface conversion
Post by: sluckey on May 24, 2017, 10:08:45 pm
B+ should decrease some if you bias it hotter. How is it biased now?
Title: Re: Fender Hot Rod Deville blackface conversion
Post by: PRR on May 24, 2017, 10:16:49 pm
What is wrong with 514V on a 6L6GC amp??

There is ample B+ filtering. 60Hz hum is more likely heater wiring near sensitive audio points.