Hoffman Amplifiers Tube Amplifier Forum

Amp Stuff => Tube Amp Building - Tweaks - Repairs => Topic started by: kagliostro on February 01, 2017, 02:49:39 pm

Title: Resistor in parallel and Power - Question
Post by: kagliostro on February 01, 2017, 02:49:39 pm
Today I was to the local electronic shop looking for a (round and relatively small) 300R 10W resistor

They have not so much components and had only a 330R ceramic resistor that I got also if it is a bit too long for my board

I got it also if it is 330R (waiting for a correct one) and I've think to put a 3.3k 2W resistor in parallel to have 300R as result

After that I remembered that may be I've some 10W 3.3k resistor that are of the correct lenght and if I put a 330R 2W resistor

I'll obtain the desired 300R

But I've a doubt, if I use a 10W 330R + a 3.3K 2W resistor the larger current follows the lower resistance path, so no dissipation problems

and if I use a 3.3K 10W + a 330R 2W resistor what will happen ? Is this an easy way to burn the 330R 2W resistor ??

Many Thanks

Franco
Title: Re: Resistor in parallel and Power - Question
Post by: DummyLoad on February 01, 2017, 03:27:22 pm



and if I use a 3.3K 10W + a 330R 2W resistor what will happen ? Is this an easy way to burn the 330R 2W resistor ??


possible to leak much smoke.


can you get three 1K 5W? that with 3.3K 1W or 2W would work.


--pete
Title: Re: Resistor in parallel and Power - Question
Post by: kagliostro on February 01, 2017, 03:41:16 pm
Thanks DummyLoad

I must give a look to my stock to see what I've or use the 10W 330R + a 2W 3300R

this way I think I've no problem

Franco
Title: Re: Resistor in parallel and Power - Question
Post by: sluckey on February 01, 2017, 03:59:02 pm
What is the purpose of the resistor. 300Ω may not be such a critical value. Perhaps any value between 200 and 400 will be acceptable?
 
Title: Re: Resistor in parallel and Power - Question
Post by: kagliostro on February 01, 2017, 04:04:07 pm
Ciao Steve

the resistor is for the cathode of the 1625 on the schematic you have seen (modified AA764 + 5C1)


Franco
Title: Re: Resistor in parallel and Power - Question
Post by: sluckey on February 01, 2017, 04:49:37 pm
In that case I definitely would not zero in on 300 as the magic number.
Title: Re: Resistor in parallel and Power - Question
Post by: kagliostro on February 01, 2017, 05:32:19 pm
Grazie Steve

Quote
In that case I definitely would not zero in on 300 as the magic number

(http://www.diyitalia.eu/images/smilies/Trilly-18-39.gif)  (http://www.diyitalia.eu/images/smilies/Trilly-18-39.gif)  (http://www.diyitalia.eu/images/smilies/Trilly-18-39.gif)   May be I must think to a more flexible solution ..... :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Franco
Title: Re: Resistor in parallel and Power - Question
Post by: HotBluePlates on February 01, 2017, 06:23:04 pm
... if I use a 10W 330R + a 3.3K 2W resistor the larger current follows the lower resistance path, so no dissipation problems

and if I use a 3.3K 10W + a 330R 2W resistor what will happen ? Is this an easy way to burn the 330R 2W resistor ?? ...

Let's solve the problem and find out.

How much voltage do you expect across the resistors?  Pulling a number out of the air, I'll guess 15v.

Resistors in parallel see the same voltage.
15v / 3.3kΩ = 4.5mA
15v * 4.5mA = 68mW

15v / 330Ω = 45.5mA
15v * 45.5mA = 0.68W

Do you expect more than 50mA of idle current (plate & screen)?  If no, it looks like 2w is plenty for either resistor and 10w is overkill (but might be cooler for a nearby cap).

Ofcourse you could have calculated as 15v2 / Resistance, and found power directly.  But knowing the implied current might be helpful in some cases.
Title: Re: Resistor in parallel and Power - Question
Post by: DummyLoad on February 01, 2017, 09:59:09 pm
was wondering the same thing... usually we double up on wattage or even 3X if there's big swing in current demand.


--pete
Title: Re: Resistor in parallel and Power - Question
Post by: kagliostro on February 02, 2017, 09:19:48 am
Many Thanks Bill & Pete

I think there will be ~18V across the resistor(s), it is the cathode resistor of a 1625 tube in an SE amp

here schematic

(http://i.imgur.com/W3Sxrbv.jpg)

(There is a typo, bass cap is .1 NOT .01)

and ... yes, 10W was planned as to be a safe situation, in an SE amp I don't think there will be a large swing in current demand

--

I've this nice (and smaller 3.3K resistors that fits better the board)

respect to the 330R ceramic resistor I got yesterday

(http://i.imgur.com/UtGUbhS.jpg)

But when Steve told

Quote
In that case I definitely would not zero in on 300 as the magic number.
I started wondering a different solution (more flexible)

a 220R 10W resistor + this russian 220R ceramic pot and this give me a range from 220R till 440R to perfectly tailor the bias

(http://i.imgur.com/JzrPwQ7.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/PT0TFGA.jpg)

but I'm still wondering about what to do (there are also other solutions, one is to find a lot of correct sized resistor in various values  :icon_biggrin: )

Many ideas but well confused  :laugh: :laugh:

Franco




Title: Re: Resistor in parallel and Power - Question
Post by: HotBluePlates on February 02, 2017, 09:05:03 pm
But when Steve told

Quote
In that case I definitely would not zero in on 300 as the magic number.
I started wondering a different solution (more flexible)

a 220R 10W resistor + this russian 220R ceramic pot and this give me a range from 220R till 440R to perfectly tailor the bias

You probably won't know the "ideal resistance" until you actually build the amp.  You could use the wirewound pot, but I suspect once you get it close to a happy value of resistance, you probably won't change it much ever again.  In that case, it seems a waste to use the pot.  But if you already have the pot, then cost doesn't really matter unless you have some other project where it would be critical to have.
Title: Re: Resistor in parallel and Power - Question
Post by: DummyLoad on February 02, 2017, 10:54:21 pm
that's nothing more than a 807 SE. 


https://frank.pocnet.net/sheets/155/8/807.pdf


probably going to have around 14 to 15V Vk. to keep Pdiss around 22.5W @ 335V, you'll need about 75mA Ik. so 14V-15V/75mA ~~180 to 200 ohms.


--pete
Title: Re: Resistor in parallel and Power - Question
Post by: kagliostro on February 04, 2017, 02:46:39 am
Thanks Pete

I've this extract of the 807 datasheet

(http://i.imgur.com/7IfwTBp.jpg)

Seems that (with 350V B+) plate + screens are around 59mA

I don't know the exact value of  Rk (I think they refer to a fixed bias with that  -18V)

but seems that also a less W rated resistor can be used (may be 7W)

I'll prefer to use a bigger one but I'll see what I can find

Franco
Title: Re: Resistor in parallel and Power - Question
Post by: DummyLoad on February 04, 2017, 03:34:38 am
if V bias fixed is shown to be at -18V with 350V, a good approximation is that you need 18ish Volts on the cathodes with auto bias. so 18V/58mA ~~310R. use a 330R. Va-k is actually 350 - 18V = 332V but still close enough to 350V to make the approximation valid. more or less. you're cutting hairs where you don't need to. fire it up with a 330R, measure Vk and make the determination if Pdiss is where you want it. in the spec sheet it's about 20W. on a footnote, during the initial power up, monitor your screen V closely; the closer to 250V it actually is, the closer the approximation is.


--pete
Title: Re: Resistor in parallel and Power - Question
Post by: ac427v on February 04, 2017, 07:00:16 am
Unrelated detail. Bass cap in the tonestack is .01?
--Craig
Title: Re: Resistor in parallel and Power - Question
Post by: kagliostro on February 04, 2017, 07:21:21 am
Thanks Pete

Those are important info for me, I'm not very skilled and all this info give me help

----

Many Thanks Craig

is a typo, correct value is .1

Grazie

Franco