Hoffman Amplifiers Tube Amplifier Forum
Amp Stuff => Tube Amp Building - Tweaks - Repairs => Topic started by: treesmoker on February 10, 2017, 03:48:28 pm
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Hello guys, I would like to present my latest project and ask all my newb questions.
I have made 2 tweed amps from kit before, but this time I'm in for something harder to accomplish.
Ever since I heard deluxe amp, 65 blackface, first channel into greenback ( I know some will dislike this ), I wanted that sound again.
I would like to build an amp that is same as that deluxe first channel, but without tremolo and reverb in it. It would be volume bass treble amp with 2 input.
Is something like that possible?Would amp work normally?
I already have set of classic tone deluxe reverb transformers and all the valves I need, plus I have a friend that can make chassis from steel or aluminium for me.
(I want to point out that I'm still learning a lot about this, have hard time reading schematics, and will make mistakes for sure)
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Work and sound are probably your biggest if's. I'm not a fender aficionado so I mighta chopped up the wrong one, It'll need some TLC to get it correct, but you can study it
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Thank you for response, will look into that....
I've searched the forums, found out about Deluxe Lite build...apart from middle control, that's about what I'm looking for, am I right?
Is there big difference from ab763 original in that build? Can I take middle control out?
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I can only recommend the Deluxe Lite (has two channels but no reverb/trem) that Sluckey has on his site, and it is searchable on the forum here. It includes a mid control as well but I can verify that it is stable and sounds great. I will add that I am not experienced and shouldn't be trusted without confirmation from someone who knows what they are talking about!
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Looks like you already located it.
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2 channels? why two if no reverb/trem?
A friend of mine gave a suggestion of taking "vibrato" channel, getting rid of normal one, and keeping the reverb since that part of amp has more gain. But that seems like a lot of work on schematics for me, I would need help
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Its a normal and high input. I think if you follow his schematic you will meet your friends suggestion.
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I think what my friend was saying that one more gain stage is added when reverb is present, Lite AB763 lacks one 12ax7 for that I think
His suggestion was something like attachment.
Would this work, what changes do I need to make to compensate removing one channel and vibrato out of the way?
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You can do this, but the reverb recovery valve your friend is referring to is not that much of a gain stage. Sure you have another triode, but the stage is for reverb insertion. If you reduce the 3.3m resistor it will add gain. One trick that can be done is put a switching push pull pot on the volume and when not using the reverb the switch can bypass the resistor and it will add gain.
This being said, if you have not made a build from scratch it would be easier to build the Deluxe Reverb in kit form and if you just do not want tremomo you can use this stage for gain. You can also have the tremomo and install a 1 meg switching on off and when not using the tremolo switch it of and you will increase gain.
Personally I prefer to build a Deluxe Reverb with bias vary tremolo and have 2 channels. Then I can have all the great fender tones on the vibrato channel and I can voice the normal channel differently.
If you look at the tone stack the mid pot is missing, but the bass has a resistor setting the mids to 6.8k. this can be replaced by a pot. I prefer a 25 k pot here, but fender used a 10 k. The 25 k pot will increase the mids more and give more versatility. I have used a 250 k here. Sort of a raw pot.
Anyway, nothing wrong with a greenback and I have seen that speaker in many deluxe amps. Also, you can build a single channel with 2 inputs just using whatever portion of the circuit you choose.
Simply decide what you want, but to have a more versatile amp having 2 separate preamps and using an AB box I can build deluxe that has all the fender goods and will still get nasty.
So the idea is to build and once you have a stock circuit working, then you can mod it. Whichever circuit. A lot of amps have copied this idea.
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A friend of mine gave a suggestion of taking "vibrato" channel, getting rid of normal one, and keeping the reverb since that part of amp has more gain. But that seems like a lot of work on schematics for me, I would need help
That's exactly what I did with my TDR amp. Take a look. Schematic at bottom of page...
http://sluckeyamps.com/tdr/tdr.htm (http://sluckeyamps.com/tdr/tdr.htm)
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Thank you guys for all the help, it means a lot!!!
A friend of mine gave a suggestion of taking "vibrato" channel, getting rid of normal one, and keeping the reverb since that part of amp has more gain. But that seems like a lot of work on schematics for me, I would need help
That's exactly what I did with my TDR amp. Take a look. Schematic at bottom of page...
http://sluckeyamps.com/tdr/tdr.htm (http://sluckeyamps.com/tdr/tdr.htm)
Wow!!! That's great idea!
What does raw pot do? Can I just take it out?
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On the other note, heck, I would be happy if I could get rid off bass and middle too, and have them in one tone control :worthy1:
Similar to Satellite amps configuration, on my USA trip I tried 3 models, was blown away, but missus will not let me spend ""(original quote) so much money on something that looks like it's worth 300$"" and there was no discussion that time :sad2:
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The raw pot gradually lifts the tone controls out of the circuit, giving a gain boost and a raw, open sound. It's wired exactly like a midrange pot but has a much higher value. In fact, if you use a 250K log pot, then 0-5 would operate like a normal mid pot and 5-10 would begin lifting the tone circuit for the raw function. You can replace the pot with a 6.8K resistor to have the original deluxe reverb tone circuit.
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The raw pot gradually lifts the tone controls out of the circuit, giving a gain boost and a raw, open sound. It's wired exactly like a midrange pot but has a much higher value. In fact, if you use a 250K log pot, then 0-5 would operate like a normal mid pot and 5-10 would begin lifting the tone circuit for the raw function. You can replace the pot with a 6.8K resistor to have the original deluxe reverb tone circuit.
I see, thank you for the info!
You can do this, but the reverb recovery valve your friend is referring to is not that much of a gain stage. Sure you have another triode, but the stage is for reverb insertion. If you reduce the 3.3m resistor it will add gain. One trick that can be done is put a switching push pull pot on the volume and when not using the reverb the switch can bypass the resistor and it will add gain.
This being said, if you have not made a build from scratch it would be easier to build the Deluxe Reverb in kit form and if you just do not want tremomo you can use this stage for gain. You can also have the tremomo and install a 1 meg switching on off and when not using the tremolo switch it of and you will increase gain.
Personally I prefer to build a Deluxe Reverb with bias vary tremolo and have 2 channels. Then I can have all the great fender tones on the vibrato channel and I can voice the normal channel differently.
If you look at the tone stack the mid pot is missing, but the bass has a resistor setting the mids to 6.8k. this can be replaced by a pot. I prefer a 25 k pot here, but fender used a 10 k. The 25 k pot will increase the mids more and give more versatility. I have used a 250 k here. Sort of a raw pot.
Anyway, nothing wrong with a greenback and I have seen that speaker in many deluxe amps. Also, you can build a single channel with 2 inputs just using whatever portion of the circuit you choose.
Simply decide what you want, but to have a more versatile amp having 2 separate preamps and using an AB box I can build deluxe that has all the fender goods and will still get nasty.
So the idea is to build and once you have a stock circuit working, then you can mod it. Whichever circuit. A lot of amps have copied this idea.
I know, but since I don't have enough exp with this, I want to ask as many question as I can ;)
I don't want to build with tremolo since I will never need it.
I was thinking of adding reverb just for that additional gain, but I think that my not be needed to, for grit I use muff anyway.
My goal is to get tone I like with as "less as possible" components...Basic layout with volume and tone is a dream come true if it gets me the sound I want.
First I was thinking Supro is the way to go, but once I tried it, new amp is way to fuzzy for my likings, and Satellite Mudshark was kinda Supro but too expensive and too different.
Then I heard Deluxe's First Channel and I was vowed.
I need to note, for 10!! years I was Marshall player, tried to get sound from my idols to play in cover bands. Had my '77 JMP 50w modded to hell and back with all sorts of mods.
Then I decided I want to sound like myself and found out all those Marshalls are not what I have in my head for making my own music, and so the tone chase has begun.
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Then I heard Deluxe's First Channel and I was vowed.
You keep saying "first" channel. A Deluxe has two channels, one is called "Normal", and the other is called "Vibrato". Which of those two channels do you consider to be the "first" channel?
You have seen the Deluxe Lite that uses the Normal channel. And you have seen my TDR which uses the Vibrato channel without tremolo.
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I will add I built the same amp Sluckey has. Used his layout and schematic, but he advised a better chassis, stronger. I added a adjustable NFB and switch to bypass the verb resistor. With this and the raw pot it will go from fender clean to raunchy as hell and all in between.
The raw pot helps a lot.
If you want a single control, consider finding a resistor value for the bass and trebel and keep the raw mid pot. It is the fender tone stack that makes the balask face Deluxe what it is. It is midscoped and is what makes the AB763 circuit so desirable. Change this and you change the amp entirely.
I did sell the one I built as I had an original and just too many amps at the time. It sold the first Saturday I put put it up for sale and I got asking price.
Point I it is a great amp and well worth considering.
Good luck on your tone seeking. Once it starts it is hard to stop, but it is fun to me.
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Then I heard Deluxe's First Channel and I was vowed.
You keep saying "first" channel. A Deluxe has two channels, one is called "Normal", and the other is called "Vibrato". Which of those two channels do you consider to be the "first" channel?
You have seen the Deluxe Lite that uses the Normal channel. And you have seen my TDR which uses the Vibrato channel without tremolo.
First one I'm referring to is Normal, to me that was first from the left
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First one I'm referring to is Normal, to me that was first from the left
That's what I thought. The Deluxe Lite covers that and is a much simpler build.
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than I will proceed in that way with my build.
Later I can use knowledge and parts to build full schematics DR if I want to.
RIght to volume pot is bright switch right? Can I just remove it from layout if I don't want it?
Will post pictures as soon as I start