Hoffman Amplifiers Tube Amplifier Forum
Other Stuff => Guitars => Topic started by: HommeMarrBuckley on June 23, 2017, 12:33:42 pm
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A friend of mine had linked me this article from the Washington Post.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2017/lifestyle/the-slow-secret-death-of-the-electric-guitar/?utm_term=.cc359547ad91 (https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2017/lifestyle/the-slow-secret-death-of-the-electric-guitar/?utm_term=.cc359547ad91)
Thought it was interesting, probably most of you are aware of things when you read it.
Like me, nothing major because guitar players will continue to play guitar. Like everything it is cyclical--hopefully guitar driven music will come back at some point.
I thought the most interesting point was about Taylor Swift = EVH.
Immediately, you think ??? because of ability but then realized, yeah it's about someone out there getting kids to pick the guitar up.
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Great article. I am afraid we are going to see a lot more of this. I saw the decline in which made me question collection investment. Gruhn not only said it is not sustainable, they also have begun a new method of doing appraisals. Just.a simple watch of your local community businesses tell this. All of the small music stores that are still around are adding that marketing calls added value. Free lessons is one I watched recently. Did not work either.
Like you, I will play, but there is a larger picture. Time will let us know, but I began selling off all my Collecctable gear except for 2 pieces from my father and my first amp I got in 73. Super Reverb. It is all gone.
I will say over the next few years some very fine guitars can be purchased for little money. Loads of great builders and a shrinking market. At one time I thought if the Chinese ever make a good instrument, it would be difficult. I just played a Squire a little bit ago and it was a black guard Tele. 400 out the door and it really is a nice guitar.
Everything changes and I am purchasing components for a hifi build from China. Not because it is cheaper, but why should I pay someone else who is importing?
I began watching the change Social Media and constant access from smart phones. And while some will disagree, this device has removed and changed a lot we always thought were fixtures of a way of life,. Apple computer now is the largest distributor of music. They also changed the way people listen. Bose helped initially by running ads in women's publications for small speakers and the family stereo was replaced with TV surround, cheesy surround.
Finally, playing music was relocated from the Family room to an out of the way area, like basement and garages. Moms and Dads do not have the perseverance to learn an instrument. It is not important.
All things have to be budgeted. When guitar was growing and music was as well, most people had an antenna on the roof and a 17 dollar phone bill. Before cable, if you would have asked my father did he believe in 40 years the average urban household would spend 320 dollars a month on communications and media, he would have thought you had lost your mind.
Time and money has limits. Ask any person would they give up their cellphone and cable to be able to have a musical family? We know the answer. They made the choice. Music is a recession growth business and when times are hard, it is cheaper entertainment. Like ice cream. I was amazed at how much values have changed. I watched people keep their iPhone, but walk away from their homes.
Death of guitar is only 1 thing. Check out this article.
https://www.geckoandfly.com/13143/50-things-smartphone-replaced-will-replace-future/ (https://www.geckoandfly.com/13143/50-things-smartphone-replaced-will-replace-future/)
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I'm old and crabby, but I wonder if a lot of the gravitation away from the "rock god/bad boy/rebel/chick magnet" guitar player persona has to do with the pussification of guys in recent years. That stuff is not cool any more because as a precious snowflake we must make everyone FEEL good and we wouldn't want to hurt anyone's FEELINGS with our behavior. Here, have a trophy for waking up today before noon, because you are so special. Why work at anything? You are only partially cool if you are singing whiny coffee house babble.
I think HommeMarr is right (at least I hope so...). I think like everything else, music will come full circle and have a resurgence. Maybe not so much with this generation of millennials, but maybe the next. I brought this up in another thread about where is the next new big thing in music? Where are the new guitar heroes? They all sound like GIT clones and all sound alike. Cant get much more boring than that.....
Ed, did you ever watch the Disney animated movie, WALL-E? It's a great movie but I think it made a lot of people feel uncomfortable because of the way it portrayed the humans. I think it hit a little too close to home for a lot of people to see exactly what we are becoming.
Jim
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Ed, did you ever watch the Disney animated movie, WALL-E? It's a great movie but I think it made a lot of people feel uncomfortable because of the way it portrayed the humans. I think it hit a little too close to home for a lot of people to see exactly what we are becoming.
Jim
Jim, the gangster is the new bad boy and they rap.
Yes I have seen the movie and it did not bother me at all. I really don't care what 'we' are becoming. Music has never has a circle. Think of it this way, we were using the best technology we could in the 70's. Analog is all we had, but as soon as it was available, I began using digital recording. Since I was one of the earlier net guys, before the browser, we transferred files via ftp. If you had not early version of Amp Farm, you could simply ftp a track to someone else. Now to do this you do not need near the knowledge.
Napster killed the recording industry , but it was their own fault. Making digital copies on CD is faster and Was more profitable. First one I saw was in 79 at CMC, a high end audio store that did not have an apple with a bite out of it. :laugh:
Greed digitized recordings and marketing to everyone it was superior to vinyl or tape. Once the music was converted for duplication all it took was accessible a file. Record companies were making record profits. They deserve what they got. It is also why tickets cost a lot more as the artist doesn't get a lot of royalties from sales.
When I make these comments it is often taken as I am, against smart phones and portable internet access and this is not the case at all. I just feel we shouldn't have thrown out the baby with the bathwater, meaning we have more to life than monitors. It began before that and eventually we will come to realize the purple dinosaur was not really a good mother.
We will realize the greed and quit making excuses for it one day. To see it is easy. Drive through a middle class neighborhood built prior to the boomer coming of age to start families and you will see brick on all 4 sides. A flashback will remind you of the neighborhood mother making lunch for you and your friends. This brick enabled the father to work overtime and the kids cut grass. I did not know what an allowance was. My mom and dad got me everything I needed. If I wanted something, dad would say you are able bodied, cut someone else's grass. I can assure you when I used his lawnmower to do it, some of my money I made went to lawnmower gas and maintenance.
The high school graduate was making widgets and enough money for the whole family and mom did not have to work. She could, but did not have to. The family watched TV together, both channels on vac and a blurry one on uhf. The high school graduate could read, so noted exception. Politics in school was about student council and not an agenda to parent children in the correct progressive mentality.
Things have changed a lot since I was a kid. With these changes designer jeans and what we drive became important, more important than our way of life. So, we have a new way of life.
If you have sex with a virtual reality model, is it cheating? It has only just begun. The present is amazing and everything has flaws. Very few people have any savings, but plenty of excuses why they do not. A great majority look at credit as their savings. My business consists of demographic survey, PR and marketing strategies for businesses. The 10year data on Social Media shows some very disturbing changes in our new Global World. Search and read some of the findings. Interesting to note is how much time is spent online. Me included and you too. What did you give up gradually until you now believe you no longer have time for? I still play guitar everyday, but not near as often with others. They don't have time.
George Gruhne said guitar sales are not sustainable, but guitar players seem to be very dug in as to wanting a wood guitar with 6 strings and a tube amp and thumb their nose at anything different. Of course it will decline. If technology or the use of it was still DOS and you had to know DOS and Unix commands, I am certain our present would look much different. Both are similar. Learning an instrument takes time and there is no instant gratification. Now when you cut your grass or want to brag about the fine dinner you are eating at exclusive place, just take a photo and instantly your so called friends on Facebook can feel bad because their life is not as good as yours.
When you chose to raise a family over chasing a music career, you put other first. Since self centered seems to be the accepted rule, so go buy stuff you do not need, in a place where all the money leaves your community. Who cares anymore if your neighbor has a job, what is their names anyway?
Greed is good! I may be old and crabby, but this doesn't change my experience.
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Ed,
I can tell you are really holding back.... What are you REALLY thinking?
Jim :laugh:
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Ed,
I can tell you are really holding back.... What are you REALLY thinking?
Jim :laugh:
I was holding back!
No one wants to know what I, am thinking or what I believe, well not many. My belief system is way in the minority. However, my opinion does not contain any of what you should do or believe.
I am not the creator nor did I light the fuse that caused the big bang.
Jim, you know me well enough now. You have to know this is my PC response.
I forgot, I got to have something to do while I am looking at 2.0 stereo gear. How about this, I had a friend offer me his Heath as 101 which are like the Alice voice of the theater. 15 inch altec woofer and very nice horns.
Like I said, I may be old and crabby, but my experience says these are really nice in a sort of analog way. Heck, I even sprung for some new Jantzen caps for the crossovers.
I have a Thorens platter, but I need another. I am also looking for an Akai reel to reel. I actually have a Sony 8 track, separate in a wooden box. These Heath are one owner speakers, owned by someone like you and me. Someone who appreciates what they are. He wants them to go to someone else who will appreciate them. They are not free, but priced for a nice guy.
I guess this is partially responsible for my mood. I always get a little irritated when things don't go my way. Damn rain from the gulf coast delayed my trip. The guy I am getting them from I wanted to visit with and I have not seen them since a past life. Oh, well! Least I have time to find other components.
I did get a lot done to my breadboard. I will post more photos soon. This thing is not cool, it is KEWL. If it were me it would be so cool that it would butter its lips and slide the toast in, like I do.
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Sorry for getting so off topic.
One thing this guitar decline has done and the multitude of custom builders, there are some really nice guitars. I am getting a 3 single coil strat made. It will not have any vintage parts, cause if it says vintage, it is not.
Ebony board. Satin finish, ss frets 6105, tall and thin. All my guitars have these except my 335. Swamp ash, single piece. I picked the piece. Heavily grained. No pick guard and side jack, not on the front. Finish is translucent gold and fades to pine green. Quilted cap maple.
Guy worked for Tom Anderson and he gets their shop to do the neck pockets. These guys are all building custom guitars. This one will cost me less than ordering all the parts from Warmouth. I will bet you this is the last one he builds this cheap, but the custom builders will fall on hard times. Just like PRS making the Se in Korea, I have played a couple of these and commented that they were too good. And it looks as is Paul Smith, the man who said you build the best guitars by having the best quality control, is moving to Korea.
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Not off topic at all as it is relevant to the subject.
Oooo, I gotta see this Strat! Please post porn.
Price point is killing stateside builders. Import quality is rising with some really slick guitars in beautiful wood.
Voice of the Theater Speaks? Too cool! I would love to have those monsters around the house! Way back in the 70's I sent away for plans for, I think it was the A7 and built two for our PA with a horn on top. We then added another two when we started making some money. Powered by a couple of old Crown amps and we could play anywhere. Those cabs were super efficient and I remember plugging my little Radio Shack transistor radio into one and it sounded like a Kenwood!
Jim
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The article quotes production figures from the big names. Is this really an indication of an overall decline? Or have the direct marketied Amazon imports been eating into those numbers?
I also find it interesting that the School of Rock schools are teaching the kids Rush and Journey? I assume the kids have a choice of what material they play? What, nothing new? Oh, that's right..... Just proved my point.
Jim
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It's better to read your guys reactions than the actual article.
There's still geetar music being made even in these days and times. But dince you two are from BFE maybe it's different access? J/K :laugh:
I can't link anything cause I'm on my iPhone in my Bluetooth vehicle next to my laptop and maxi err iPad.
Jesus Ed - you were computing in the prehistoric days! I only had just got my brand new cassette tape 4-track portostudio 424 in those days!
Jimbo - your band was making money?! You said the only money left over that the monkey collected went back into organ grinder repairs and peanuts 🥜 for your employee? :dontknow:
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Yeah we made money. In this particular band it was agreed that we would pool all the gig money for equipment since we all basically lived with our parents - like all typical musicians! That was back before the house PA's and the bands had to bring everything. And having a typical rock and roll ending, the bass player's ex-girlfriend stole all the money! I can laugh about it now! :l2:
Tascam 424... You and Plate apparently had good experiences with it. I have tapes and tapes and they all sound like crap, and I'm not just talking about my playing! I did learn a lot about recording with that thing. I will take my software any day of the week over that. I still got the 424 - want to re-live your youth? I'll make you a deal!
I can tell you the music scene in Europe is much more prolific than in the US. Every classic rock band still able to hobble up on stage with at least one original member is playing to packed houses. Lots of young talent as well. Reminds me of the 70's here. I've said this before, but that was definitely the golden age of US music. You would see the same people at Black Sabbath, Heart, Marshall Tucker, and ELP. So many different styles and most everyone was open to them.
Hey you! Get off my lawn!
Jim
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Yes Joe, I have been doing this crap so long that I do not care what new comes out, I just do not get excited about it. Yes, there is still guitar music where you are. We had a festival this past weekend was supposed to be a Jazz and R&B Festival i Fayetteville GA. This is in the town square, so I can walk. Upon walking up from my house, you come up on the back of the stage first. You could actually feel the subs at my house.
Well, there was not a guitar i sight. Loads of lights and a few keyboards. No drums. All the "vocalists" were swinging their arms in the opposite direction from John Travolta in Saturday night fever. So knowing the sound guys, the same guys at every event, I asked were there going to be any Jazz players later. One said this is what they called Jazz. See, what they did is misrepresent the show and really it was Techno and Hip Hop.
Well, what the did not consider is the DBA level ordinance which is 55 in residential areas. :icon_biggrin: So I made a call to the Sheriffs Department and in about 10 minutes a Deputy arrived at my house. My house is about 1/4 mile from the square. Showed the Deputy decibels exceeding 80 at peak. About the same as a Garbage Truck smashing trash. Well the deputy asked if I could take the DB meter to the show, but instead I showed him an app to download.
The deputy made them reduce the volume to 57 decibels at 100 meters. :l2:
Jim,
Posted first is what my guitar is supposed to look like. I do not want a fender looking headstock, because it is to a fender and I don't think it is right to do that. I will probably just get him to cut it similar to a Suhr.
BTW, the second photo is my latest purchase. It is a Suhr. Maple Cap, Mahogany back, Gotoh 2 post floater with magnet lock and a Roasted Maple neck with Ebony board, Jesscar Stainless Frets almost the same as 6105 Dunlop. Sort of a tall thin fret. I am not a fan of wide frets. I even had my Les Paul regretted with these.
It has an elliptical neck. Best way to explain it is where you palm rides it is thick, but it is thinner at the bottom. Sort of like a D shape in the first third and an Ibanez Wizard neck on the bottom 2/3rds.
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You guys with your new geetars... My wife has warned me numerous times that if I buy one more guitar that I'll have to change my name to Josephine! :sad2: :help: Talk about cutting off your nose save your face?
But she is right in that it's the last thing I need...like another amp hehe... I tell her the same things when it comes to her expensive purses but bras and panties? I NEVER complain about those >:) I am not crazy.
So Carolina hip hop & techno is thought of as jazz? Yikes!
Jimbo, give the monkey a break and dust off that ukulele and give him a hollowed out coconut to hold out instead? It's good to mix it up once in a while?
Happy teeny tiny Friday. One life...don't screw it up...mahalo.
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You guys with your new geetars... My wife has warned me numerous times that if I buy one more guitar that I'll have to change my name to Josephine! :sad2: :help: Talk about cutting off your nose save your face?
But she is right in that it's the last thing I need...like another amp hehe... I tell her the same things when it comes to her expensive purses but bras and panties? I NEVER complain about those >:) I am not crazy.
So Carolina hip hop & techno is thought of as jazz? Yikes!
Jimbo, give the monkey a break and dust off that ukulele and give him a hollowed out coconut to hold out instead? It's good to mix it up once in a while?
Happy teeny tiny Friday. One life...don't screw it up...mahalo.
No NO No. South Carolina has nothing to do with my comment. It is GEORGIA, south of Atlanta. At one time Lowery Studios in Atlanta recorded some of the best guitar music.
In North Carolina Mountains and especially Asheville, there is a great music scene where all music genres are welcome. I have actually been there in West Asheville and a Bluegrass band playing on a corner and down the street a heavy metal band.
South Carolina is responsible for Marshall Tucker and in Western North Carolina you have Pickers and Fiddlers.
Atlanta and our new motion picture studio in Fayetteville GEORGIA. They are expecting this to become Hollywood east. I hope so, I will sell my place, get rid of my razor and hair clippers and live as I am, a Mountain Man.
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You have way more guitars than me anyway. I sell one when I get a new one.
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Hey you! Get off my lawn!
Jim
You better mow that lawn Pilgrim!
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You have way more guitars than me anyway. I sell one when I get a new one.
So what's your point?! 😘
Maybe Im a romantic at heart but once I have something I really like I have a hard time changing or selling. Sorry, I got the hotlanta area messed up. I need to create an association like Hanoi Jane when she was with Ted and he bought the TV network and the Braves both. Like her not she has always been a total hottie. I'm sure Jim would say definitely a d@&$ deal breaker but not me. I could overlook most anything for a crack at that. :icon_biggrin: Must be his midwest values that supersede his common sense?
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You have way more guitars than me anyway. I sell one when I get a new one.
So what's your point?! 😘
Maybe Im a romantic at heart but once I have something I really like I have a hard time changing or selling. Sorry, I got the hotlanta area messed up. I need to create an association like Hanoi Jane when she was with Ted and he bought the TV network and the Braves both. Like her not she has always been a total hottie. I'm sure Jim would say definitely a d@&$ deal breaker but not me. I could overlook most anything for a crack at that. :icon_biggrin: Must be his midwest values that supersede his common sense?
My point is you wrote something about new guitars and all I was saying is you have had a lot of new guitar experiences. Thats all.
Now let's see. I have my first amp and guitar. I have my fathers Amp and Guitar. I have my Uncle's guitar. My dads and uncle are in glass cases and I no longer play them. I used to, but they began showing the usage and they are true vintage. 69 Les Paul and a 59 Telecaster. I wouldn't sell them even though I feel we are on the cusp of declining prices on vintage gear.
The only stuff I do sell are guitars I purchased used for a really good price and amps too. For instance, I am not a fan of 1975 Les Paul. They are not very good guitars, but I bought one and sold it. I have a Heritage 157 which is just like a Black Beauty and love it. I have a bond with it and my 335. I also have bonded with my Suhr, so these will stay.
The guitar I play more than any is my least favorite, but it has a job. My 2009 Telecaster Deluxe. If I run across one that sounds better, I will sell it in a heartbeat. The thing has a weird soul, but it is ash and I did get the Bridge wound exactly like the 59, the neck pup is a strat pup.
So I guess I got a little of the thing you have too excluding an attraction to Barbraella.
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When "guitar gods" get back to making beautiful music, instead of just showcasing how fast they can play, the younger crowd will listen to guitars again. So many excellent guitarists use music to show off their talent. A few use their talent to make beautiful music. For instance, I've listened to Satriani (who hasn't) and while sure, it's amazing what he can do, what I liked the best was when he slowed down and played with some heart, instead of just his fingers. Eric Johnson's "song for George" is one of the most listenable pieces of music (to me) I've come across in a long time. He's using his talent to make great music. Billy Gibbons has proven for over 3 decades you don't have to play fast to get noticed. I have friends send me links to some kid wonder on Youtube that's playing a thousand notes a second,and I'm like "cool, but who TF can listen to that for more than a minute without having a seizure?". Keith Richards is not noted for speed, but rather for laying down dirty nasty licks that get in your head and stay there. Joe Bonamassa says he wants to "kill everyone else on stage"or something like that, meaning be better/bury them. Bull, dude. It's about making the music, not constantly proving how good you are. Comfortably Numb, voted one of the top ten guitar solos of all time... how fast does he play through most of it? It's a beautiful, haunting piece. In Kung Fu, speed wins. In music, sometimes it just gets in the way.
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You have way more guitars than me anyway. I sell one when I get a new one.
So what's your point?! 😘
So I guess I got a little of the thing you have too excluding an attraction to Barbraella.
Was teasing you Ed but my phone emoji didn't show correctly on the site.
Here's a couple of photos but not sure which one you prefer? The '97 Blackbird, the '89 Strat Plus, or '37 back in her heyday?
"BlackBird" with the birdseye maple neck has slim & tall stainless frets just how you like 'em. I converted to dual DiMarzio 36th Anniv PAF's Fender spaced pups. Changed to 3-way switching, dual volumes on pushpull pots to go in parallel. Parallel is much more single coil-like with the benefit of remaining noiseless, I'm not a fan of coil tapping humbuckers at all. The Tone pot has it's trace cut for a no-load position while on "10". It retains it's Fendery tone but with a bit more push with the hummie's. Very fun to play.
On Greenie I changed it's original lame Wilkinson roller nut replaced to an LSR, the gold lace sensors for Kinman AVn 56's and AVn 62b in bridge, the bridge saddles changed to GraphTechs, and the electronics to a master vol, a no-load blender in the middle, and master no-load tone pot. Other than these things it's bone stock :laugh: I got it for $500 out the door back in '93.
Speaking of bone stock - the '37 model was taken back in the early '60s shown with a polka dot finish and has aged very well without modifications until her later years? :icon_biggrin:
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When "guitar gods" get back to making beautiful music, instead of just showcasing how fast they can play, the younger crowd will listen to guitars again. So many excellent guitarists use music to show off their talent. A few use their talent to make beautiful music. For instance, I've listened to Satriani (who hasn't) and while sure, it's amazing what he can do, what I liked the best was when he slowed down and played with some heart, instead of just his fingers. Eric Johnson's "song for George" is one of the most listenable pieces of music (to me) I've come across in a long time. He's using his talent to make great music. Billy Gibbons has proven for over 3 decades you don't have to play fast to get noticed. I have friends send me links to some kid wonder on Youtube that's playing a thousand notes a second,and I'm like "cool, but who TF can listen to that for more than a minute without having a seizure?". Keith Richards is not noted for speed, but rather for laying down dirty nasty licks that get in your head and stay there. Joe Bonamassa says he wants to "kill everyone else on stage"or something like that, meaning be better/bury them. Bull, dude. It's about making the music, not constantly proving how good you are. Comfortably Numb, voted one of the top ten guitar solos of all time... how fast does he play through most of it? It's a beautiful, haunting piece. In Kung Fu, speed wins. In music, sometimes it just gets in the way.
Agree completely John, no matter who the player is I get ear fatigue quickly when too many notes continue to fly at my ears within a certain time frame especially at a show or concert where it seems to just not stop and everything starts blending together (unless it's me doing the playing that is :icon_biggrin: :w2:). Kudos to the player but not my attention span.
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I like the green one. I prefer this to model 37
http://new-country-songs.com/confederate-railroad-new-song (http://new-country-songs.com/confederate-railroad-new-song)
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I'm not real down with country but like that one!
Country music for me is like vegetables. As a kid growing up I very much disliked many but as I've gotten older I've grown fond of most.