Hoffman Amplifiers Tube Amplifier Forum

Amp Stuff => Tube Amp Building - Tweaks - Repairs => Topic started by: punkykatt on February 24, 2019, 11:19:10 am

Title: DC voltage on pots?
Post by: punkykatt on February 24, 2019, 11:19:10 am
 Hello all, got a Victoria clone of a Fender Bandmaster 5E7  on the bench  with noisy scratchy pots, cleaned all the pots  a half dozen times  no improvement. Got the meter out and there is up to several vdc on every pot ( the presents pot does and should have vdc). I disconnected all the coupling caps to the volume pots and tone stack pots one at a time to find the culprit, with all of them disconnected I still get several vdc so I disconnected the standby switch .05 cap to ground thinking that might be leaking vdc with no change. Set my meter for lowest ohm setting and checked the eyelet board  for continuity, did not get a reading. Did any one here ever have this problem? Any  ideas or suggestion are much appreciated.   Thanks you in advance.  Punky

https://el34world.com/charts/Schematics/files/Fender/Fender_bandmaster_5e7_schem.pdf
Title: Re: DC voltage on pots?
Post by: 66Strat on February 24, 2019, 11:56:39 am
You might try lifting the end of the .1 uf cap on the board and testing it for leakage.
Title: Re: DC voltage on pots?
Post by: punkykatt on February 24, 2019, 04:40:12 pm
Thanks for the reply. I already lifted all the coupling caps to the volume pots and the bass and treble pots. Even the cap to ground on the standby switch.
still has dc voltage on the pots.
Title: Re: DC voltage on pots?
Post by: 66Strat on February 24, 2019, 05:36:09 pm
Did you lift the cap that I circled?
Title: Re: DC voltage on pots?
Post by: punkykatt on February 24, 2019, 06:24:41 pm
Yes, the only coupling caps that are not lifted are after the PI.
Title: Re: DC voltage on pots?
Post by: sluckey on February 24, 2019, 06:30:42 pm
Pull the rectifier tube. Still got dc on pots?
Title: Re: DC voltage on pots?
Post by: punkykatt on February 24, 2019, 06:54:56 pm
thanks Steve, That will be my 1st task tomorrow morning.
Title: Re: DC voltage on pots?
Post by: punkykatt on February 25, 2019, 08:27:40 am
With the rectifier tube pulled and amp turned on with the pots turned full CW I get the following:  Bass -728mV, Treb -931mV, Vol brite -337mV, Vol norm -280mV.   if I turn the pots CCW  the voltage goes to 0 vdc, when I turn the amp off reading go to 0 vdc.
Title: Re: DC voltage on pots?
Post by: sluckey on February 25, 2019, 08:37:10 am
Really? I wonder where that voltage is coming from. Unplug the amp from the wall and check again. What kind of meter do you have?

I know this must sound like I'm funnin' with you and I guess on some level I am, but I'm also serious.
Title: Re: DC voltage on pots?
Post by: punkykatt on February 25, 2019, 09:27:27 am
My main meter is a BK precision 2703C, I have 2 others for back up, a Southwire 1000305 and a GB GDT-190A.  I tested with all 3 meters, I got different reading but not far off.  With the amp unplugged I got 0 vdc with all 3 meters. 
Title: Re: DC voltage on pots?
Post by: sluckey on February 25, 2019, 09:38:42 am
Quote
With the amp unplugged I got 0 vdc with all 3 meters.
Finally, something that makes sense. :wink:

Check grounds on the amp, especially if there is a brass plate under the pots.
Title: Re: DC voltage on pots?
Post by: punkykatt on February 25, 2019, 10:16:06 am
All the grounds in the amp test good and to double check the brass plate I clipped my clip on test leads from the pot ground lugs to a clean sanded spot on the chassis. No change in voltages on pots.
Title: Re: DC voltage on pots?
Post by: sluckey on February 25, 2019, 10:36:59 am
Is the board fiberglass or that flimsy waxy stuff that Fender used?
Title: Re: DC voltage on pots?
Post by: punkykatt on February 25, 2019, 11:06:33 am
the board looks to be the typical fender eyelet board with a backer board but no waxy stuff.
Title: Re: DC voltage on pots?
Post by: sluckey on February 25, 2019, 11:42:55 am
Just wondering if the board was conductive.
Title: Re: DC voltage on pots?
Post by: 66Strat on February 25, 2019, 12:11:21 pm
Maybe an unwanted connection to - bias supply?
Title: Re: DC voltage on pots?
Post by: punkykatt on February 25, 2019, 12:18:55 pm
Im not sure I used the proper method to test the  board for conductivity earlier. I set the meter to lowest ohm setting and put the probes on the board. I did not get a reading. Should I turn on the amp and test for mV`s from board to ground?
Title: Re: DC voltage on pots?
Post by: PRR on February 25, 2019, 12:22:49 pm
> test the  board for conductivity earlier. I set the meter to lowest ohm setting and put the probes on the board

*Highest* Ohms setting. The scale which can tell 1Meg from Infinity.

What is this meter? Battery DMM or a plug-in VTVM?
Title: Re: DC voltage on pots?
Post by: jjasilli on February 25, 2019, 12:46:49 pm
Maybe an unwanted connection to - bias supply?


Good point.  With the rectifier tube pulled the bias supply is the only remaining source of DC in the amp.  AND, it's (-)DC voltage being read. 

It's tempting to suspect the meters (which are identified by punkycatt above); but: the pots are scratchy; and 3 different meters confirm the -DC voltage issue.
Title: Re: DC voltage on pots?
Post by: punkykatt on February 25, 2019, 12:53:54 pm
Thanks PRR,  the meter is DMM. I will do tests on the highest ohm setting.
Title: Re: DC voltage on pots?
Post by: punkykatt on February 25, 2019, 01:09:08 pm
Set my BK 2703C  DMM on 20meg setting and did not get any readings when putting both probes all over the board.  This is good, no moisture conductivity right?
Title: Re: DC voltage on pots?
Post by: punkykatt on February 25, 2019, 04:12:08 pm
Removed eyelet board  part way to inspect the back, looks good. Remove and inspect the insulator board all good.  Reinstall and check for dcv on pots, still there. Unsoldered the wire from right lug of treble pot, measured 22vdc on the wire end, traced wire to the board where the eyelet connects to the 250pf coupling cap that is lifted off the board. With nothing connected to that eyelet but the wire to the treble pot which is now disconnected I read 22vdc. The board has to be conductive. I did some investigating on Victoria amps and read they used the exact same board material in their amps as Fender did in the 50`s that are known for becoming conductive.  Is the board material that Doug sell any better at not becoming conductive?
Title: Re: DC voltage on pots?
Post by: sluckey on February 25, 2019, 05:02:29 pm
Doug's boards are not conductive. Is this your amp? If not I hope your customer has deep  pockets.
Title: Re: DC voltage on pots?
Post by: punkykatt on February 25, 2019, 06:33:35 pm
No, not my amp. A good friend. He has many amps and is in no rush, I will be kind to him, work on it during slow times. Treat others the way you would like to be treated.  Thanks for all the help Steve and all others that chimed in.