Hoffman Amplifiers Tube Amplifier Forum

Amp Stuff => Tube Amp Building - Tweaks - Repairs => Topic started by: fossilshark on November 14, 2019, 02:14:14 pm

Title: EL34 bias way too high
Post by: fossilshark on November 14, 2019, 02:14:14 pm
So I got this 2204 built with every connection double checked but no matter what I do the lowest the bias voltage (turning the bias pot) will drop down to is -73v and I'm pretty sure that's way too high.

Why does the bias pot look different than the rest of the pots in this schematic? I have the middle and another pin shorted together going to ground, is this correct?

Also idiocracy here, can I run this John's without the 47p cap on the phase inverter and 100k feedback resistor? Just curious (will be adding them in when they come in)
Title: Re: EL34 bias way too high
Post by: sluckey on November 14, 2019, 02:51:27 pm
So I got this 2204 built with every connection double checked but no matter what I do the lowest the bias voltage (turning the bias pot) will drop down to is -73v and I'm pretty sure that's way too high.
Maybe you used a different PT than Marshall used. You can drop this voltage by increasing the value of R30.

Quote
Why does the bias pot look different than the rest of the pots in this schematic? I have the middle and another pin shorted together going to ground, is this correct?
The bias pot physically looks different too, right? Marshall used a different schematic symbol for a trimmer pot.

Quote
Also idiocracy here, can I run this John's without the 47p cap on the phase inverter and 100k feedback resistor? Just curious (will be adding them in when they come in)
Sure
Title: Re: EL34 bias way too high
Post by: shooter on November 14, 2019, 03:44:09 pm
Quote
drop down to is -73v and I'm pretty sure that's way too high.
what's the full "range"?
my understanding the more neg(-) the bias volts, the lower the tube current.  Would guess - 73 would get the tubes close to cut-off?
Title: Re: EL34 bias way too high
Post by: fossilshark on November 14, 2019, 04:01:33 pm
I assumed I could just use a pot instead of a trimpot, am I wrong? I wasn't brave enough to keep turning when it went up to -85v, I think you're right about it being a different PT. Should I double R30? How much is too much resistance here
Title: Re: EL34 bias way too high
Post by: sluckey on November 14, 2019, 04:11:33 pm
Just do it. You need a range of about -30v to -50v. Don't put any tubes in until you get it right.
Title: Re: EL34 bias way too high
Post by: shooter on November 14, 2019, 04:12:39 pm
if you haven't read this yet comes in real handy

http://www.aikenamps.com/index.php/what-is-biasing
Title: Re: EL34 bias way too high
Post by: fossilshark on November 14, 2019, 04:36:04 pm
Aye slucky you killed me on the spot. Had all tubes in and it's probably been booted up for a total of 3 minutes now oops...
Title: Re: EL34 bias way too high
Post by: 2deaf on November 14, 2019, 04:37:43 pm
You would have to have 600Vrms or more to the CT of the PT to get -73V at the bias point with the circuit you posted.  It seems more likely that you do not actually have the circuit right or you are not measuring it right. 
Title: Re: EL34 bias way too high
Post by: fossilshark on November 14, 2019, 05:13:48 pm
2deaf you would be correct. Still no sound out of the amp (not even noise) with the bias at -53v(no tubes/load) so it's time to triple check my output section. Out of curiosity should I have the common for output transformer connected to ground as well as the speaker jack grounds? And how about the center taps on the power transformer? I'm following the original schematic as close as possible.
Title: Re: EL34 bias way too high
Post by: shooter on November 14, 2019, 06:13:47 pm
if you ohm along the red line to chassis ground, should be close to 0
Title: Re: EL34 bias way too high
Post by: tubeswell on November 15, 2019, 04:59:06 pm
2deaf you would be correct. Still no sound out of the amp (not even noise) with the bias at -53v(no tubes/load) so it's time to triple check my output section. ...


Suspect the OT has been killed. (Common for amps running EL34s way beyond their design parameters). Disconnect the OT and do a Pr:Sec VAC test with a low powered AC source on one of the secondaries. (Make sure your VAC source can absorb a shorted load)