Hoffman Amplifiers Tube Amplifier Forum

Amp Stuff => Tube Amp Building - Tweaks - Repairs => Topic started by: boogieWoogie on February 09, 2020, 10:10:12 am

Title: wall outlet watts vs. amplified watts (Vox AC30C2 seems too hungry)
Post by: boogieWoogie on February 09, 2020, 10:10:12 am
Hi folks,
I'm working on a Vox AC30C2.  Currently there are no real problems I'm aware of (although my bandmate believes it's quieter than a 30W amp should be).  The thing that concerns me is the current draw & power consumption from the perspective of the power outlet.  From the outlet, how many watts should a 30W amp consume?  I'd assume more than 30W, due to efficiency loss / heat / etc, but 75W doesn't feel right to me.  Thoughts?

Conditions: ~4 mins of warm-up time, no inputs, volume & master-volume are on 10.

Thanks,
BW

Current / Power consumption from wall-outlet
(https://i.imgur.com/hkE0O81.jpg)

Vox AC30C2
(https://i.imgur.com/g4kX4HR.jpg)


Title: Re: wall outlet watts vs. amplified watts (Vox AC30C2 seems too hungry)
Post by: sluckey on February 09, 2020, 10:56:27 am
Sounds very realistic to me. Heck, those EL84s are wasting over 19 watts just to burn the filament.
Title: Re: wall outlet watts vs. amplified watts (Vox AC30C2 seems too hungry)
Post by: boogieWoogie on February 09, 2020, 12:18:35 pm
Ok then, I'll package this thing back up & enjoy it!  Thanks for the reply sluckey.
Title: Re: wall outlet watts vs. amplified watts (Vox AC30C2 seems too hungry)
Post by: sluckey on February 09, 2020, 12:58:58 pm
Where did you get the idea to mount the meter on your variac?
Title: Re: wall outlet watts vs. amplified watts (Vox AC30C2 seems too hungry)
Post by: tubeswell on February 09, 2020, 01:32:10 pm
Not unusual for the power supply to consume 3x or 4x the amount of rated output power of a tube amp. The current draw at the mains is the sum of the V.A. on all the PT secondary windings, which includes the heater winding (and in tube-rectified amps, also the rectifier winding). 


Whereas, the power output at the speaker jack is a different kettle of fish - determined by the voltage and current from the output tube plates and the VAC/impedance ratio of the OT.
Title: Re: wall outlet watts vs. amplified watts (Vox AC30C2 seems too hungry)
Post by: boogieWoogie on February 09, 2020, 02:45:17 pm
Gotcha tubeswell.  I'd never thought to look before, but when I think about the heat coming off tubes, it should have been clear that these are not efficient devices.

sluckey, there's a youtube channel where a fella (calls himself the "guitologist") repairs amps, and on one of his episodes, he showed how he patched that $15 digital multimeter into his variac.  Here's the episode: https://youtu.be/2mrlha-uzro (https://youtu.be/2mrlha-uzro). It's been handy to have a visual indicator as I power up an amp on the variac.. if I see the current taking off, I can shut it all down before I burn through a transformer or tube.
Title: Re: wall outlet watts vs. amplified watts (Vox AC30C2 seems too hungry)
Post by: Greenwichpaul on February 09, 2020, 03:36:08 pm
Filament light bulbs are maybe 4% efficient, Class A amps are especially inefficient... I'm impressed that your tubes are doing so well!
Title: Re: wall outlet watts vs. amplified watts (Vox AC30C2 seems too hungry)
Post by: PRR on February 09, 2020, 04:43:35 pm
The plate circuit of a tube amp (smaller than a car) is 45%-56% efficient at-best.

So *when making full "30 Watts"* the plate circuit sucks 53-67 Watts of DC.

There is some loss converting your AC to DC. Say 59W-76 Watts.

Four EL83 heaters are 19 Watts extra. 78-95 Watts total.

Your "75.5W" meter number is at the low end of the range because (I assume) you are reading it silently, not full-blast. Even a class A amp (ideally constant input power) typically sucks a bit less at idle than at full roar.
Title: Re: wall outlet watts vs. amplified watts (Vox AC30C2 seems too hungry)
Post by: shooter on February 09, 2020, 05:11:27 pm
Quote
Filament light bulbs are maybe 4% efficient
maybe for light, but use north folk are happy with the heat waste  :icon_biggrin: