Hoffman Amplifiers Tube Amplifier Forum

Amp Stuff => Tube Amp Building - Tweaks - Repairs => Topic started by: pc1093 on March 08, 2020, 08:40:25 am

Title: ECC85-EL84 change to Ultra-linear
Post by: pc1093 on March 08, 2020, 08:40:25 am
HI All,
I want to DIY A EL84 valve amplifier.I got a ECC85-EL84 diagram. I find there ultra linear output transformer more choice. (this is one of my choice https://www.edcorusa.com/cxpp10-8k (https://www.edcorusa.com/cxpp10-8k)

In these diagram, Could I change each pin 9 of EL84 to the G1,G2 of the UL output transformer? any other component need change or add?
Thank you.
Title: Re: ECC85-EL84 change to Ultra-linear
Post by: sluckey on March 08, 2020, 08:47:05 am
In these diagram, Could I change each pin 9 of EL84 to the G1,G2 of the UL output transformer?
Yes. That's all you need to do.
Title: Re: ECC85-EL84 change to Ultra-linear
Post by: pdf64 on March 08, 2020, 09:29:39 am
In these diagram, Could I change each pin 9 of EL84 to the G1,G2 of the UL output transformer?
Yes. That's all you need to do.
As UL operation is less stressful to the screen grids than regular pentode mode, I think that would probably be ok for ‘hifi’ use. But with an instrument amp (ie that may get pushed hard / overdriven), without wishing to over complicate things, it would be good practice to add screen grid resistors. eg 470 ohm 1/2 watt between the primary tap and screen grid terminal.
Title: Re: ECC85-EL84 change to Ultra-linear
Post by: sluckey on March 08, 2020, 09:56:51 am
I have a Sunn Sceptre (2x6550) and a Magnatone M10-A (2x7189). Both are UL. Neither have screen resistors. The only UL amps I've seen with screen resistors have been the really big amps like Fender 135W Twin Reverb, Sunn 2000 or 1200 and Marshall Major. I would not bother with resistors in an EL84 amp.
Title: Re: ECC85-EL84 change to Ultra-linear
Post by: pc1093 on March 08, 2020, 11:18:37 am
thank you all :icon_biggrin:
Title: Re: ECC85-EL84 change to Ultra-linear
Post by: pdf64 on March 08, 2020, 12:57:50 pm
A couple of points to consider -
Screen grid current shoots up at high signal levels, especially around and beyond clipping; smaller amps such as the 2xEL84 here seem more likely to get overdriven.
Pentodes such as EL84 tend to inherently have higher ratio of screen grid current to plate current, than beam tetrodes.

The DrZ Route 66 is a rare example of a modern UL guitar amp, built with power amp overdrive in mind; that seems to use screen grid resistors https://www.flickr.com/photos/49108115@N04/4501477895
Title: Re: ECC85-EL84 change to Ultra-linear
Post by: pc1093 on March 09, 2020, 04:18:01 am
thank you all,
If I put a resistor between screen grids and G1/G2, how many ohms should I use?
are there any formula to calculate or any rules?
Title: Re: ECC85-EL84 change to Ultra-linear
Post by: pdf64 on March 09, 2020, 07:26:39 am
Merlin explains the process for pentode amps http://www.valvewizard.co.uk/se.html
In UL the conditions for the screen grid won't be so arduous, as when the plate is being pulled down to 0V, the screen grid voltage, instead of being up near the HT, is 43% down from that.
I guess that a suitable value will end up being in the range 100 - 470 ohms; anything (however small) being better than nothing, if the amp is to be driven hard.
Title: Re: ECC85-EL84 change to Ultra-linear
Post by: PRR on March 09, 2020, 11:14:01 pm
100r does little. 2K can be significant. That's why "470" comes up a lot.