Hoffman Amplifiers Tube Amplifier Forum

Amp Stuff => Tube Amp Building - Tweaks - Repairs => Topic started by: joesatch on April 17, 2020, 04:05:50 pm

Title: Question about cap between PT lugs.
Post by: joesatch on April 17, 2020, 04:05:50 pm
I'm rewiring my amp to 120V. It has a heyboer power transformer. Between the black (0v) and black/red (240v) there is a .47uf capacitor.  i'm going to change to the black/white from the black/red to use the 120v tap. What is this cap for and can i just move it to the black/white tap? Is this cap for reducing the pop when going to standby? Why is it .47uf and do i need to change that value when switching to the 120v tap?

(https://i.ibb.co/89qPg8T/thumbnail-20200417-170128.jpg)

Title: Re: Question about cap between PT lugs.
Post by: shooter on April 17, 2020, 04:46:35 pm
guessing it's a EU safety thing, normally never find a cap on the primary side on most hobby builds, might find it on an old 2 prong amp
Title: Re: Question about cap between PT lugs.
Post by: tubeswell on April 17, 2020, 05:30:00 pm
You sure it’s a cap (and not an MOV)?
Title: Re: Question about cap between PT lugs.
Post by: joesatch on April 17, 2020, 05:43:58 pm
i guess it's some sort of surge protection, i have no clue.

Digging some more could be a cap for AC filtering
Title: Re: Question about cap between PT lugs.
Post by: shooter on April 17, 2020, 05:52:56 pm
sent 2ducks, came back with this; (from cap data shown)

https://www.iecee.org/dyn/www/f?p=106:49:0::::FSP_STD_ID:1963
Title: Re: Question about cap between PT lugs.
Post by: PRR on April 17, 2020, 11:10:35 pm
It can reduce the POP when refrigerator or elevator motor switches on or off.
Title: Re: Question about cap between PT lugs.
Post by: DummyLoad on April 17, 2020, 11:13:53 pm
You sure it’s a cap (and not an MOV)?


clearly marked .47uF xxxV - volt rating hidden by wire, not a MOV.


--pete
Title: Re: Question about cap between PT lugs.
Post by: pdf64 on April 18, 2020, 04:32:38 am
Don’t think it’s ok to connect any cap with an apparently suitable voltage rating across the mains. It’s a harsh application that parts need special approval for (x rating live to neutral, y rating live/neutral to ground). The PT acts to filter out much of the hash and nasties, so we don’t need to worry about that stuff on the secondary side of things.
Such caps are probably necessary for equipment to meet electromagnetic compliance EMC regs.
Title: Re: Question about cap between PT lugs.
Post by: tubeswell on April 18, 2020, 05:01:49 am
You sure it’s a cap (and not an MOV)?
clearly marked .47uF xxxV - volt rating hidden by wire, not a MOV.


Yes I see it now. Missed it before
Title: Re: Question about cap between PT lugs.
Post by: joesatch on April 18, 2020, 10:55:20 am
Well i left it in place and the amp works on the 120v tap. Not sure if i should remove it or not, or if the value needs to be changed. .47uf Rated at 275 volts
Title: Re: Question about cap between PT lugs.
Post by: DummyLoad on April 18, 2020, 03:39:12 pm
Don’t think it’s ok to connect any cap with an apparently suitable voltage rating across the mains. It’s a harsh application that parts need special approval for (x rating live to neutral, y rating live/neutral to ground). The PT acts to filter out much of the hash and nasties, so we don’t need to worry about that stuff on the secondary side of things.
Such caps are probably necessary for equipment to meet electromagnetic compliance EMC regs.

line to line and line to ground caps are to filter RF & other noise on the line. caps are not there for compliance.

 https://www.justradios.com/safetytips.html

--pete
Title: Re: Question about cap between PT lugs.
Post by: tubeswell on April 18, 2020, 04:13:46 pm
Well i left it in place and the amp works on the 120v tap. Not sure if i should remove it or not, or if the value needs to be changed. .47uf Rated at 275 volts


That should be fine unless there's a major lighting strike in the mains and your surge protectors ain't working. (But then everything else that's plugged in and switched on will suffer the same fate)
Title: Re: Question about cap between PT lugs.
Post by: 66Strat on April 18, 2020, 05:04:16 pm
I had a lightning ground strike very near my house ten years ago on June 14, 2010. I remember the day because that was the day my Dad died. The lightning fried the neutral wire for the AC. It was hot that day. There was a storm that day. I was at the hospital all day. When I came home that night, no AC, and the house was miserably hot. AC man came the next day to fix the AC. He showed me the burnt wiring. All of the insulation was burnt off of the neutral wire leading from my breaker box to the AC unit. I was lucky that it didn't burn the house down.
Title: Re: Question about cap between PT lugs.
Post by: pdf64 on April 18, 2020, 06:39:44 pm
Don’t think it’s ok to connect any cap with an apparently suitable voltage rating across the mains. It’s a harsh application that parts need special approval for (x rating live to neutral, y rating live/neutral to ground). The PT acts to filter out much of the hash and nasties, so we don’t need to worry about that stuff on the secondary side of things.
Such caps are probably necessary for equipment to meet electromagnetic compliance EMC regs.

line to line and line to ground caps are to filter RF & other noise on the line. caps are not there for compliance.

 https://www.justradios.com/safetytips.html

--pete
Err, that’s what EMC is https://ec.europa.eu/growth/sectors/electrical-engineering/emc-directive_en

Equipment has to pass electromagnetic compatibility compliance testing before it’s legal to sell it in the EU.
Title: Re: Question about cap between PT lugs.
Post by: DummyLoad on April 18, 2020, 07:27:44 pm
Don’t think it’s ok to connect any cap with an apparently suitable voltage rating across the mains. It’s a harsh application that parts need special approval for (x rating live to neutral, y rating live/neutral to ground). The PT acts to filter out much of the hash and nasties, so we don’t need to worry about that stuff on the secondary side of things.
Such caps are probably necessary for equipment to meet electromagnetic compliance EMC regs.

line to line and line to ground caps are to filter RF & other noise on the line. caps are not there for compliance.

 https://www.justradios.com/safetytips.html (https://www.justradios.com/safetytips.html)

--pete
Err, that’s what EMC is https://ec.europa.eu/growth/sectors/electrical-engineering/emc-directive_en (https://ec.europa.eu/growth/sectors/electrical-engineering/emc-directive_en)

Equipment has to pass electromagnetic compatibility compliance testing before it’s legal to sell it in the EU.

i stand corrected. thanks for the link! 

--pete