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Other Stuff => Guitars => Topic started by: shooter on May 12, 2020, 09:31:46 am

Title: tuners question
Post by: shooter on May 12, 2020, 09:31:46 am
since I have 2 Nice amps  :laugh:

thought I'd fix the problems with my cheap guitar.

2 of the tuners have no gear ratio left.  They mount with 2 screws, most all the replacements I'm seeing only use 1 screw.
will the one screwer's work?  (I'm not concerned with making a new hole)

thanks
dave
Title: Re: tuners question
Post by: jjasilli on May 12, 2020, 04:31:13 pm
I was never able to find drop in replacements for the cheap tuners.  Maybe new tuners could cover the existing screw holes.


Anyway, the main retrofit issue is peghole diameter.  Measure that.  Maybe it's just right.  Or you'll need to ream (don't drill) larger, or use inserts to reduce diameter.
Title: Re: tuners question
Post by: shooter on May 12, 2020, 04:54:15 pm
Thanks JJ
I'm not worried about covering up, just pure function.
I gotta hunt up my calipers, all my mechanical rules are base 12  :laugh:  :think1:
Title: Re: tuners question
Post by: jjasilli on May 12, 2020, 06:29:24 pm
😜 the main reason not to drill is that the drill bit tends to bind in the existing hole, and then split the headstock.


(Ask me how I know!)
Title: Re: tuners question
Post by: shooter on May 12, 2020, 07:14:06 pm
the physics of un-intended consequences  :m20

decided to use up some oils, gonna try moving the "old footprint" close to blue/red/violet mixed "black".
hopefully I can feather the rest so the burls pop
Title: Re: tuners question
Post by: shooter on May 13, 2020, 06:59:35 pm
while the oil dries;

I was gonna delete the mid and neck pickup, looking at wiring, it appears I can pair the 2 singles into a humbucker.  guessing orientation is important, guessing again the pic is oriented "backward?" since the wires come out opposite sides.

I don't want to guess though  :laugh:
included wiring for "where I want to start"
Title: Re: tuners question
Post by: jjasilli on May 14, 2020, 01:54:07 pm
Not clear.  You say 2 singles but show 2 humbuckers.  The Seymour Duncan wiring diagram appears to apply to 2 humbuckers, not 2 single coils.


Standard Strat wiring/switching for 3 single coils makes 2 coils humbucking when Neck-Middle or Bridge-Middle are selected.
Title: Re: tuners question
Post by: shooter on May 14, 2020, 02:46:49 pm
Quote
appears to apply to 2 humbuckers, not 2 single coils.

sorry, I just set the 2 singles next to each other (left set)
my main question;
do you "physically put them together" opposite (one rotated 180) for the hummbucking effect  :dontknow:

thanks
dave
Title: Re: tuners question
Post by: jjasilli on May 14, 2020, 03:06:03 pm
Per my Reply 6 - the humbucking effect is standard with standard Strat wiring & single coil PU's. 
Title: Re: tuners question
Post by: shooter on May 14, 2020, 03:16:23 pm
ah;

going with the pic then for mounting and just wiring like the image shows

thanks
Title: Re: tuners question
Post by: shooter on May 17, 2020, 02:05:22 pm
went scrounging for some brass plate, BONUS, found an actual humbucker  :laugh:

gonna use the brass plate for ground/shield instead of the tinfoil.
gotta match n cut out for the pickup.
ordered enough Cherry veneer to cover the pick guard, reasonable price for wood, insane price to ship  :cussing:

sent the 2 Ducks looking for on-on-on dpdt, they weren't happy.  did read about the switch, the guy that came up with it and how cool it was in the 80's.

decided on dpdt for series || since the black pickup is 4 wire, and a spst to engage the white pickup since it's all wired n wrapped as a series.

think my schematic is correct  :dontknow:
Title: Re: tuners question
Post by: shooter on May 19, 2020, 04:48:57 pm
pieces parts came;
reamed out the holes, got tuners mounted, still need to install the screws.
NAPA came through!, my "new" pickup had a funky machine screw mount.
the guys at Napa found me a 3mm .05 tap for the original screws!
need to do some grinding on my brass plate and get a ground lug set.

once it's back up playing, I'll tear it down and get the 2nd pickup hole cut.  the veneer is in the Wu-flu clue, last email Jun 4  :think1:
Title: Re: tuners question
Post by: shooter on May 20, 2020, 06:00:33 pm
played outside, did manage a quick solder up.
hopefully I'll be making guitar noise in the morn  :laugh:
Title: Re: tuners question
Post by: shooter on May 21, 2020, 06:46:32 pm
 :w2:

I missed the taper  :think1:
so i'll swap in the original vol for now.

to late for real test, but it seems past 2, it's way louder than just taper. 
Title: Re: tuners question
Post by: SILVERGUN on May 22, 2020, 09:13:36 am

Snoozin and late to the party but keep these sites in your favorites bar for the future:
https://guitarelectronics.com/guitar-wiring-resources/


https://www.seymourduncan.com/resources/pickup/wiring-diagrams
Title: Re: tuners question
Post by: shooter on May 22, 2020, 09:28:04 am
 :laugh:
it's way past 10am n I'm just moving !
thanks, I've been gathering nuts n bolts sites for guitar, added yours
Title: Re: tuners question
Post by: SILVERGUN on May 22, 2020, 09:52:44 am

It's tough to keep up with you.
At this point I think you're just padding your post number to surpass JJ


Is there such a thing as a Level 6 - forum master (?)
Title: Re: tuners question
Post by: Ed_Chambley on May 22, 2020, 10:07:33 am
Naw, this is padding
Title: Re: tuners question
Post by: Ed_Chambley on May 22, 2020, 10:08:50 am
you post numbers.


Shooter just likes to BS and look over cliffs.
Title: Re: tuners question
Post by: SILVERGUN on May 22, 2020, 10:52:01 am
 
:w2:

I missed the taper  :think1:
so i'll swap in the original vol for now.

to late for real test, but it seems past 2, it's way louder than just taper.

Well humbuckers are much louder than their whimpy counterparts.

I love a good taper 'cause like Mr. Chambley, I don't hesitiate to throw in a nice volume swell. The other determining factor is the speed of the rotation.

It's to the point where I actually SHOP for volume pots. These (https://www.seymourduncan.com/single-product/yngwie-speed-pot) Yngwie pots are great but a little pricey.
Title: Re: tuners question
Post by: shooter on May 22, 2020, 12:10:25 pm
Quote
a little
!!  :w2:
that's what I paid for 2 bur browns AND shipping  :laugh:
but...... :think1:

The new pickup is louder, harsher.  Gonna have to break out the scope n look 'cuz I don't have players ears.  All the crackle pops n hiss are gone though AND I can tune ALL the strings AND I don't have rusty fingers when I finish playing!!!

as to # padding, I've had all the fame n fortune this 'ol man can experience, I'm just a hayseed hack now, n likin it just fine  :icon_biggrin:

I gave up climbing 10 yrs ago, but I'm re-roofing my garage to appease the insurance gods, so I get my "fix" from 20'   :laugh:
Title: Re: tuners question
Post by: shooter on May 22, 2020, 05:28:13 pm
Since I have to re-wire;

do any of you pickers have your "favorite" 2 knob setup  :dontknow:
I looked at 3-4 different schematics, nothing said "Dave, this sounds awesome:)

I'm gonna take a longer look at your cork-sniffer pots,
what's the "cage" that goes around pickups called 
Title: Re: tuners question
Post by: jjasilli on May 22, 2020, 07:11:32 pm
Pickup covers.
Title: Re: tuners question
Post by: shooter on May 23, 2020, 06:56:21 am
 :laugh:

not the plastic covers, the cool "trim" piece
from Jeff's collection;
Title: Re: tuners question
Post by: jjasilli on May 23, 2020, 08:27:07 am
They're called, variously, frames, covers, mounting rings:
https://www.google.com/search?q=guitar+pickup+frame+cover&tbm=isch&source=iu&ictx=1&fir=Jj74DjwraFKLSM%253A%252CXv5Ds1qGg6HFaM%252C_&vet=1&usg=AI4_-kRsivqkjIJjyNmDH0YO_Pj7MNhFdw&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjFg8TlisrpAhW9hHIEHR70CpcQ9QEwA3oECAUQIA#imgrc=Jj74DjwraFKLSM: (https://www.google.com/search?q=guitar+pickup+frame+cover&tbm=isch&source=iu&ictx=1&fir=Jj74DjwraFKLSM%253A%252CXv5Ds1qGg6HFaM%252C_&vet=1&usg=AI4_-kRsivqkjIJjyNmDH0YO_Pj7MNhFdw&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjFg8TlisrpAhW9hHIEHR70CpcQ9QEwA3oECAUQIA#imgrc=Jj74DjwraFKLSM:)
Title: Re: tuners question
Post by: SILVERGUN on May 23, 2020, 01:08:12 pm
Since I have to re-wire;

do any of you pickers have your "favorite" 2 knob setup  :dontknow:
I looked at 3-4 different schematics, nothing said "Dave, this sounds awesome:)
Dave, this sounds awesome.
1 knob, just like you like it.

If you HAVE to have 2, you could always put a blend control...that's kinda cool.
https://www.strat-talk.com/threads/what-is-a-blend-knob.336560/

Tone knobs are for the jazz guys and anyone who doesn't wanna cut through.
Highs are our friend.
Title: Re: tuners question
Post by: jjasilli on May 23, 2020, 01:22:59 pm
And now, in the opposite corner...... woman tone
Title: Re: tuners question
Post by: SILVERGUN on May 23, 2020, 01:34:42 pm
Yeah.there is that...

That's just it David, there is NO one size fits all wiring.
Ive been messing with these things since 1985 and still dont have it figured out, so I opt for simplicity.
The women in the crowd cant tell the difference between my neck and bridge pickups. They just want to sing along and dance.
Title: Re: tuners question
Post by: Willabe on May 23, 2020, 02:50:26 pm
Tone knobs are for the jazz guys and anyone who doesn't wanna cut through.
Highs are our friend.

A lot of guys set their volume and tone controls on the guitar down a little and then turn up the volume and treble on their amp. Very common.

That way you push the amp a little more and still have somewhere to go if needed. Some never turn their guitar volume and tone all the way up.
Title: Re: tuners question
Post by: shooter on May 23, 2020, 05:24:08 pm
Thanks guys;

I did get to play around yesterday, found I had to back off my amp from 6 to 3!!!
but with the wrong Vol pot I could only do so much.

I find I like to set the amp, then do the knob work from guitar, I can find all the sounds AND keep track of all my fingers  :icon_biggrin:

so stay the course, fix volume, add 2nd pickup, maybe decorate it with the multi-named chrome work  :laugh:
Title: Re: tuners question
Post by: shooter on May 25, 2020, 09:54:34 am
Got it working, will crank today  :icon_biggrin:

not sure where I went sideways, the taper was correct!, the wiring was correct for the "version" I used  :dontknow:

Quote
in the opposite corner....
I think that's my corner for now  :laugh:
slowing down my fingers seems to make a lot more musical sounds, speeding them up gets closer to raccoons fighting in a dumpster  :violent1:

one more 2nd grader question;
how many times can you string/unstring a set of strings before you add new ones?

mine are new, but after 3 times, they seem sketchy at the tuners for breakage

EDIT: wrong pic  :think1:
Title: Re: tuners question
Post by: SILVERGUN on May 25, 2020, 12:06:21 pm
one more 2nd grader question;
how many times can you string/unstring a set of strings before you add new ones?

mine are new, but after 3 times, they seem sketchy at the tuners for breakage
This is kinda like the ole "how many licks does it take to get to the center..."


I usually only try to get away with one rewrap, but I buy strings in bulk and I try not to hold up rehearsals too long. Breaking a string mid song is a buzz kill.


If you're playin Madison Square Garden tonight I'd definitely swap em out..
 :m1



Title: Re: tuners question
Post by: shooter on May 25, 2020, 12:15:13 pm
Thanks Dave, I have a square garden, but it's in MI not WI so it's legal   :icon_biggrin:

putting strings on my to order list  :new1:
Title: Re: tuners question
Post by: SILVERGUN on May 25, 2020, 01:10:17 pm
String gauge is something else to consider. If you wanna help the neck stay straight you should mic out the strings sizes and keep em close.
We usually refer to sets by the lightest string in the set. Like, I play "nines" = .009
A common set of nines  is .009 - .042
The lighter the gauge, the easier to play but the least un-amplified projection.
Check out some Google results for full setup advise. Some of the goal for playability is to get the neck as straight as possible so you work less to push the string to the fret.


A poorly intonated guitar will make everything you play sound worse because it will never sound completely in tune. Every adjustment affects every other adjustment so HAVE FUN!
Title: Re: tuners question
Post by: shooter on May 25, 2020, 01:44:01 pm
Thanks again;
I use 10's, although this new set the fat E (well D for me :) flops around like a catfish outta water!  Gotta hunt up my small allens and raise up the foot thingy

Once I get the 2nd pickup n switch in, veneer the pick guard, I might see if I can find a guitar guy to tune the guitar best as possible, after he quits laughing  :icon_biggrin:
Title: Re: tuners question
Post by: jjasilli on May 25, 2020, 05:35:05 pm
I too use 10's for elec guitars: for both long and short scale lengths.  Some shredders might use 8's! 9's don't feel right to me.  `11's or more, I can't bend.  Maybe OK for tuning down, but I don't do that. 


Re string breakage, checkout:  https://www.stringjoy.com/why-guitar-strings-break/ (https://www.stringjoy.com/why-guitar-strings-break/)  or https://www.google.com/search?q=why+di+strings+break+at+the+tuners&oq=why+di+strings+break+at+the+tuners&aqs=chrome..69i57j0.6798j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8 (https://www.google.com/search?q=why+di+strings+break+at+the+tuners&oq=why+di+strings+break+at+the+tuners&aqs=chrome..69i57j0.6798j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8)


Guitar setup is a skill-set in itself, in addition to building or repair work.  I highly recommend learning to do your own setups.  There's tons of youtube video's and online articles; plus help here.
Title: Re: tuners question
Post by: SILVERGUN on May 25, 2020, 06:00:10 pm

I use 10's, although this new set the fat E (well D for me :)
And, if you are going to always have that E tuned down to D it would make sense to get a larger diameter string in there to keep the tension even.
If you're using a 10-46 set maybe bump the fat one up to .052


Which string gauge you use is the first determining factor in setting the guitar up. It sets the tension and pulls the neck into position.


Guitar setup is a skill-set in itself, in addition to building or repair work.  I highly recommend learning to do your own setups.  There's tons of youtube video's and online articles; plus help here.
All the way. Just one more thing to tinker with and it ain't rocket science. If you can float a land yacht, you got this.
Title: Re: tuners question
Post by: shooter on May 25, 2020, 06:04:14 pm
Quote
I highly recommend
ya, just one more pursuit  :icon_biggrin:

I ordered parts, looked for "special tools", or books, nope, BUT I started  :laugh:

once I'm done with the basics, I've met a guy that made a good living with all things guitar but he's 200 miles south.  plan to make the trek, pay to learn, get addicted, wind up with 10 guitars I can't play through 5 amps............ :mail1:
Title: Re: tuners question
Post by: shooter on May 25, 2020, 06:07:22 pm
Thanks SG, we were doing dueling Dave's  :laugh:

.052, now I gotta find ONE string  :icon_biggrin:
I just put some duck tape where it wangs out, good for now  :angel
Title: Re: tuners question
Post by: jjasilli on May 25, 2020, 08:49:06 pm
Duck tape
Title: Re: tuners question
Post by: shooter on May 26, 2020, 05:40:39 pm
The intonation tuning error due to string stretching is (T2+(T (2 yi/s))2)1/2-T,

Quote
it ain't rocket science

ya, right!
:sleepy2:

Title: Re: tuners question
Post by: SILVERGUN on May 26, 2020, 06:52:25 pm
Ignore that.
With fresh strings I try to get a full rehearsal in to stretch so that it doesn't happen much during the show.
If I have to change the day of I tune 1/4 step sharp, stretch, repeat at least 10 times...the fatties stretch more than the skinnies. Head to the stage slightly flat knowing that lights and heat will change the situation and I'd rather tune up than down. Tune and check another 6-10 times before I start the first song.
I still wind up checking tuning after every couple songs.
I don't use any math.
If I wasn't leaving the house I'd be waaaaaay less ADD about it.  :icon_biggrin:
Title: Re: tuners question
Post by: shooter on May 26, 2020, 07:16:42 pm
Quote
Ignore that.
DID!

I do want to learn tweaking the intonation, I'm still "figuring" how stretching a string at one end is different than stretching it at the other (tuners verses saddles)
It's not a reading night  :icon_biggrin:

I truly know NOTHING of E's and A's n how they sound, I developed a "pattern recognition system" with my eyes n hands  :icon_biggrin:
goes like;
when my left hand gets "about there", only use the little strings and they'll sound good, tweak as needed  :m7

wood came!
garage roof 1st though, that wood showed up also  :think1: 
Title: Re: tuners question
Post by: SILVERGUN on May 26, 2020, 07:28:18 pm
garage roof 1st though, that wood showed up also  :think1:
Well, just keep the hammer away from your frettin hand or this process is gonna get extended
Title: Re: tuners question
Post by: Willabe on May 26, 2020, 10:55:50 pm
The intonation tuning error due to string stretching is (T2+(T (2 yi/s))2)1/2-T,

 :huh:             :laugh:
Title: Re: tuners question
Post by: shooter on May 27, 2020, 08:54:01 am
Quote
keep the hammer away
a good whack helps with the arthritis
Title: Re: tuners question
Post by: shooter on May 27, 2020, 06:08:30 pm
If it keeps raining the roof will be at sea level!

I'm getting hung in the "NOTES" section at the bottom;

If my fretted note is # and I move the saddle back, why isn't that making it even sharper  :dontknow:
Title: Re: tuners question
Post by: jjasilli on May 27, 2020, 07:22:46 pm
I feel your pain!  The forward / backward terminology makes no sense to me; not to mention that I'm at least a bit dyslexic. 

Anyway, "forward" means towards the nut/headstock; "back" or "backwards" means toward the tailblock, a/k/a endblock (on an acoustic guitar) - or where the strap button goes at the far end of the guitar body from the neck.

 :icon_biggrin: For Headstock vs. Tailstock, see:  https://www.askdifference.com/tailstock-vs-headstock/ (https://www.askdifference.com/tailstock-vs-headstock/)


But I digress. . . Your printed instructions are correct, though a bit cryptic.  However, I compare the open string to: the 12th fret harmonic; and verify with the 12th fret note, fretted.


1.  Tune the guitar to pitch, or to the tuning in which it will mostly be played.  This is important, because different string tensions will pull more or less hard on the neck, causing slightly different string lengths.  Small differences in string length are significant to intonation.


2.  If the 12th fret note is sharp, you need to lengthen the string.  How far to move the saddle is a trial & error process, but you will develop a feel for it - your guessing will get better.  Lengthening the string is the same as moving the saddle "backwards".  Of course, this makes the whole string ring flat.  So re-tune it back to pitch; then re-test intonation. Rinse & repeat until good.  What is good? Within 10 cents is basically the outer limit.  Most people can hear a difference of 5 cents (I can't  :BangHead: ).  With a strobe tuner you can get it down to 1 or 2 cents or better.

3.  If the 12th fret note is flat, you need to shorten the string. Follow above procedure.


Getting maybe too far into the weeds:  There is wiggle room.  The open string, 12th fret harmonic and 12th fret, fretted, may never 100% agree with one another.  This forces you to compromise.  Also, due to some obscure but real law of physics, if you pluck a string hard it will ring sharp for a while, compared to plucking it more gently.  So, intonation can be set accordingly for players with a hard pick attack. 
Title: Re: tuners question
Post by: shooter on May 28, 2020, 08:47:54 am
Quote
if you pluck a string hard it will ring sharp for a while
I scoped the guitar and could see that, didn't know sharp/flat, just observed the "ringing" trying to "stabilize"

I can hear ~ 10 cents, anything less is to OCD for me  :laugh:

I like the shorten/lengthen string, that kinda makes sense

thanks
dave
Title: Re: tuners question
Post by: jjasilli on May 28, 2020, 11:06:08 am
I can hear ~ 10 cents, anything less is to OCD for me 


Yes, but a quality electronic tuner is the standard for intonation.  Though my ears can't detect a 5 cent difference when A/B'ing 2 notes, I can tell the difference of proper intonation when chords are played up & down the neck.  That sounds much better to me with proper intonation.  Hence the need for a quality tuner.
Title: Re: tuners question
Post by: shooter on May 28, 2020, 11:32:46 am
Quote
the need for a quality tuner.
That's definitely next, my software ones are way to wonky and sketchy.
besides 60 120 or 440hz, I just know, yup, that's higher, nope that's lower  :undecided:

my real intent is to have a good piece of "test equipment", that I can also enjoy making happy sounds with!

might as well add a strap also, been using my Winchester 3030 strap and ty-wraps  :icon_biggrin:
Title: Re: tuners question
Post by: jjasilli on May 28, 2020, 07:55:38 pm
You can have both!  https://www.amazon.com/HellsBelts-Regulator-Bullet-Guitar-Strap/dp/B00THS2VGW (https://www.amazon.com/HellsBelts-Regulator-Bullet-Guitar-Strap/dp/B00THS2VGW)
Title: Re: tuners question
Post by: shooter on May 28, 2020, 08:03:12 pm
 :angel

I know a leather craftsman  :icon_biggrin:

put a tuner and strap on order, should be in about the same as a Champ kit  :think1:
Title: Re: tuners question
Post by: SILVERGUN on May 28, 2020, 08:11:02 pm
You can have both!  https://www.amazon.com/HellsBelts-Regulator-Bullet-Guitar-Strap/dp/B00THS2VGW (https://www.amazon.com/HellsBelts-Regulator-Bullet-Guitar-Strap/dp/B00THS2VGW)
My  rhythm guitar player showed up with one of these years ago and earned a new nickname, Bandito.

I think the runner up was Rambo.  :icon_biggrin:
Title: Re: tuners question
Post by: shooter on May 29, 2020, 06:01:58 pm
1/2 " OSB hasn't changed price much since I did the house roof ~ 15yrs ago, for some reason they decided to double the weight  :icon_biggrin:
always good to have a tow-motor handy  :laugh:

got my strap and promptly put in on inside out, what a newb :think1:
tuner on Back order
Title: Re: tuners question
Post by: shooter on June 02, 2020, 06:22:15 pm
almost done with roof;

parts have been showing up, the knobs were Non-invasive, I think they made me play better  :icon_biggrin:  No tuner yet, so maybe not  :undecided:
Title: Re: tuners question
Post by: jjasilli on June 06, 2020, 04:47:25 pm
Blundered into this tuner replacement video:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AumBJ2azMVc (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AumBJ2azMVc)
Title: Re: tuners question
Post by: shooter on June 06, 2020, 06:28:02 pm
 :occasion14:

Thanks, had old browser so no sound, when there used to be  :BangHead:
i'll view it with proper net authorized....
I have a friend has "that" guitar 335 from early '60s, I keep trying to get him to break it out and play, even offered to bring amp AND speakers, probably hasn't played in >10yrs  :dontknow:

almost done with life, itching to tear it down, one more time!
I looked, no hits for gauge blocks and guitars, didn't know if they were used, did oogle too long on starretts page, I'm not even a metal guy  :icon_biggrin:
Title: Re: tuners question
Post by: shooter on June 09, 2020, 05:59:16 pm
8 days in the sun laboring, finally a rain day+

got the rough cut made for the neck pickup.
Newbie mistake ordering my cover plates, they stick above grade, I was wanting mostly below grade plates, ah well, next guitar  :icon_biggrin:

need a micro switch anyway, so another webventure
Title: Re: tuners question
Post by: shooter on June 10, 2020, 05:24:44 pm
between tree falls n power outs managed some barn work  :icon_biggrin:
searched my contact cement, 3 cans, all too sketchy, pitched, heading to Lowes in the morn
Title: Re: tuners question
Post by: SILVERGUN on June 10, 2020, 07:58:44 pm
need a micro switch anyway, so another webventure
Let me know if you need anything before you go paying shipping for 1 piece of anything. I cleaned out a closing Radio Shack and the postal person comes to my shop every day.  :wink:
Title: Re: tuners question
Post by: shooter on June 11, 2020, 05:23:43 pm
Thanks SG, I messed up on my plates so I need those, and there will be something cool I didn't know about and..... :think1:

played in the Sun, did get some barn time in, glued up, roughed in,  Time for the attention to detail part  :icon_biggrin:
Title: Re: tuners question
Post by: shooter on June 12, 2020, 06:04:13 pm
Quote
attention to detail
didn't change bit after drilling switch hole, so I got a big screw hole  :icon_biggrin:
fixed before I went on  :think1:

pickup holes just roughed til I get new plates, let the oils soak in for a day while I cap the garage roof
Title: Re: tuners question
Post by: SILVERGUN on June 12, 2020, 09:42:28 pm
pickup holes just roughed til I get new plates
plates?
We failed to tell you that it is usually either pickguard OR pickup rings.

I mean, this is custom, so anything goes, buttttt......... :dontknow:
Title: Re: tuners question
Post by: shooter on June 13, 2020, 08:37:42 am
I think I have "guard" ?  the problem it "stands above" the pickguard by ~ 1/4".  I'm hoping for something "lower profile" so distance to strings stays about the same.  (in newbie speak :)
Title: Re: tuners question
Post by: SILVERGUN on June 13, 2020, 09:36:13 am
Running the risk of sounding repetitive for the sake of clarity:
When we use a pickguard (which is that beatiful piece of wood you have created), we dont normally use the trim ring because it is not needed.
If you look back at tubenits guitar, he uses a "trim ring" in that bridge position because he doesnt have a pickguard there. It is rare that a trim ring is used over a pickguard, but in his neck pickup position it looks good.
I assume he did that to match the look of both pickups.
In your case the trim ring is not necessary, especially if its getting in your way.



Title: Re: tuners question
Post by: shooter on June 13, 2020, 10:46:46 am
Ahhh, the light came on  :laugh:
In my case, it's needed, since I'm just a rough-in carpenter  :icon_biggrin:

I just found some pricey metal, 1/16" "tall", which is ~~~~about how much the pickups stuck above the pickguard.
also picked up the tremolo bar that was missing, now i'll have dueling trem, since my amp has the Trem-o-lator  :icon_biggrin:

back to roofing  :think1:

thanks SG for pointing me North  :m8
Title: Re: tuners question
Post by: shooter on June 16, 2020, 06:55:41 pm
still sandin n clear coatin;

only had brush-on PolyCrylic, used it many times, this time it's fighting.  changed brushes, some help.

my "working title" for this one, "lipstick", the Genesis came from a Former Doc, he'd say "it's just lipstick on a Pig"  :icon_biggrin:
Title: Re: tuners question
Post by: jjasilli on June 16, 2020, 08:52:34 pm
Ahhh, the light came on  :laugh:
In my case, it's [trim ring] needed, since I'm just a rough-in carpenter  :icon_biggrin:


Yes, we all are.  The solution is to clean up the edge with a router and template.  If desired, a chamfer bit can be used on the pickguard's outer edge to make a bevel.  The template will have cutouts for the PU holes to clean up those cuts too.  Or, a separate template could be used to rout the edges of the PU holes.  It's a lot of work to make a template for just one pickguard; but templates & jigs are at the heart of luthier work.  Lots of how-to video's on YouTube.
Title: Re: tuners question
Post by: shooter on June 17, 2020, 09:21:33 am
Quote
are at the heart of luthier work.

 :laugh:

I'll be happy if it still works when I'm done!
It was non functional and "ugly" enough that it bothered me enough to do something
Title: Re: tuners question
Post by: SILVERGUN on June 17, 2020, 11:01:21 am
"it's just lipstick on a Pig"  :icon_biggrin:

I was gonna call it unique until I remembered seeing trim rings over a strat pickguard somewhere else before.
This is the Dave Murray signature, selling for over $2Gs
So yours is worth at least that. Just put your signature on the headstock and let the bidding begin.
Title: Re: tuners question
Post by: shooter on June 17, 2020, 11:10:19 am
Quote
So yours is worth at least that

 :laugh:

does look similar, My kid as a teen collected Ball cards, got one that listed in the mags for $50, told him all he had to do was find someone that was willing to pay, otherwise keep working the Taco Bell  :icon_biggrin:
Title: Re: tuners question
Post by: shooter on July 01, 2020, 06:58:35 pm
I got sidetracked, still side tracked!  started the fit, somebodies rulers off  :laugh:

do the pickups want to "float" on the screw/spring?
I'm binding on the circle n square hole thing, plus the screws are ~ 1mm to far "in".
need to get the "next" /32nd
had to take out a cherry, gave away the wood but kept this piece, If this sport was fun I might try a body  :icon_biggrin:
Title: Re: tuners question
Post by: jjasilli on July 03, 2020, 10:02:46 am
do the pickups want to "float" on the screw/spring?
In this type of setup, the PU's are supposed to float.  The side screws adjust the height of the body of the PU.  The goal is to get the pole pieces to be the "right height" below the strings -- not too far or you lose signal; not too close or the magnets restrict string vibration; or the fretted or plucked strings slap the PU.  I think about 2mm below the outer strings is a good starting place -- fretted at the highest fret.  Also, the strings should have balanced volume across one PU; and across all the PU's.  This too is accomplished with the side adjust screws.  (This can be further fine tuned if the PU has adjustable pole pieces.)  It's a somewhat time consuming & painstaking job to get 3 PU's in balance.

However, on my Gibson L6s, the PU's would not behave when raised by the side screws to float at their proper heights.  They would twist fore and aft. So I put foam padding under them to keep them in place.  This padding technique is mostly used when there are no spring-mounted side-adjust screws.  This method is a bit of a PIA, because it takes trial & error to get right the proper thickness of the foam padding.
Title: Re: tuners question
Post by: shooter on July 03, 2020, 11:25:51 am
Thanks JJ
figured the springs did something  :laugh:
before I started I measured the PU's height at ~  1mm above pickguard, with the added 1/16 wood, I'll probably start flush.

managed to make up a 1/4" to BNC so I can scope it, initial "looks" before were complex   :icon_biggrin:
doing a 1/4" to banana next to just plug into the fluke and see if I can "find a standard" for me.
Title: Re: tuners question
Post by: Ed_Chambley on September 18, 2020, 09:23:14 am
The intonation tuning error due to string stretching is (T2+(T (2 yi/s))2)1/2-T,

Quote
it ain't rocket science

ya, right!
 :sleepy2:
The actual mass of the string will always sharpen harmonics, but you don't really want a perfectly intonated guitar. I like mine out so it sounds like there are more folks playing.
Title: Re: tuners question
Post by: shooter on September 18, 2020, 10:11:53 am
 :laugh:


I might feel somewhat self-conscience if there's more folk playing  :icon_biggrin:   



I just got my 4th outta stock notice for a tuner i ordered in April!!


it's now cold enough, I might actually get the guitar put back together!!, except my "practice" drone is supposed to be here today
Title: Re: tuners question
Post by: shooter on October 03, 2020, 04:10:40 pm
It's cold out so after 6+ months playing outside I came in and finished!!


I'll probably NOT take up guitar fixin  :icon_biggrin:
was fun, still plays, looks better than original IMHO


thanks for all the moral support


dave
Title: Re: tuners question
Post by: Ed_Chambley on October 05, 2020, 07:56:23 am
You can have both!  https://www.amazon.com/HellsBelts-Regulator-Bullet-Guitar-Strap/dp/B00THS2VGW (https://www.amazon.com/HellsBelts-Regulator-Bullet-Guitar-Strap/dp/B00THS2VGW)
My  rhythm guitar player showed up with one of these years ago and earned a new nickname, Bandito.

I think the runner up was Rambo.  :icon_biggrin:
Oh man, your band pays a Rhythm Guitar Player who is a Mexican Outlaw?


Please tell me he is good enough where if you see a hippie chic you can stop playing long enough to tell her to come up on stage with you and while you are stopped playing he can carry the song.


I can see it now.  SuperDave sees that long hair, thin sundress and she is a spinning and her ass is wiggling too.  No drawers or bras anywhere, and she doesn't need them.


Just about the time you get her warmed up and treat her like a celebrity, she is ready to share her shrooms and wiggle into the night.  And just like a Rhythm player, Bandito comes over and says "How you doin," and SuperDave is left with the knowledge that no one but musicians give a crap about your "lead" work!


It pisses Superdave off and he uses one of those bullets to shoot Bandito and SuperDave ends up getting laid at Albion Correctional Institution!


Moral to the story, SuperDave should have grabbed an Acoustic, ate shrooms with her and play and sing (She won't know it, so you can say you wrote it for her) Joe Cocker's "You are so Beautiful"!, let her borrow one of you hats and play "You can leave you hat on."


Now, isn't that much better than being held down in the Shower?
Title: Re: tuners question
Post by: Ed_Chambley on October 05, 2020, 08:09:14 am
It's cold out so after 6+ months playing outside I came in and finished!!


I'll probably NOT take up guitar fixin  :icon_biggrin:
was fun, still plays, looks better than original IMHO


thanks for all the moral support


dave
I have been building more guitars then guitar amps in the last 2 years.  At one time I had ONLY 3 Guitars. Good Flat Top, 69 Les Paul and a 59 Telecaster.  Then everyone from Willibe who was much nicer about it, and to rest of the Strat Freaks here kept on until I bought 4 of the things.


Here is what I have to do to a Strat.  My opinion, Vintage Tuners suck!  String trees suck and make over the nut bends on e and B come back out of tune unless you push the wang bar back to stretch the string back.  Hipshot locking Staggered tuners 21:1 ratio, well they are not vintage.  Also if they say it is vintage, it is not.  Noisless PUPS go because THEY ARE NOT SINGLS COILS NOR DO THEY SOUND LIKE THEM."  Then reroute the neck pocket because more times than not the route has changed.  Some just shim the neck, some use popsicle sticks and the real idiotic deep thinkers use a piece of screen to stop the neck from wiggling.


If the neck doesn't fit correctly, fix neck pocket.  Be very careful tho, if you route too much a 22 fret neck can't clear a 3 ply pick guard!  Then I have to cut a new custom pick guard.  Sorry, but the volume knob gets shifted down 1/2 inch.  Finally, after a good long wait the Pickups arrive from Don Mare.  Oh yea, almost forgot.  You really need to bend the patch plug in the chrome up a little to accommodate the larger diameter of the newer patch cords.


Then get some real knobs, not plastic and install one of my fabricated trim locks.


And you always need one tuned a half step down because as you know Hendrix and SRV share responsibilities of overseeing the universe.


I digress all the time.  ADHD!


Anyway Shooter, I did remember.  You should remove all the hardware on a guitar and make it a painting.  Your painting!
Title: Re: tuners question
Post by: shooter on October 05, 2020, 08:58:14 am
 :l2:


 :occasion14:


 :m14


that thing about getting the pickgaurd under the neck, DID suck
plastic knobs at 3 beers and 12' doesn't bother me, the cheap neck PUP DOES!
that 1/2" shift on Vol woulda came in handy 6 months ago, to late now, but the nice thing, when I get aggressive n bump it, I just get louder  :icon_biggrin:
Title: Re: tuners question
Post by: Ed_Chambley on October 05, 2020, 09:11:59 am
:l2:


 :occasion14:


 :m14


that thing about getting the pickgaurd under the neck, DID suck
plastic knobs at 3 beers and 12' doesn't bother me, the cheap neck PUP DOES!
that 1/2" shift on Vol woulda came in handy 6 months ago, to late now, but the nice thing, when I get aggressive n bump it, I just get louder  :icon_biggrin:
If the volume is a problem, remove the knob and cut some foam rubber to put under the knob and over the pots post.  This will stop accidental rotation.


Ok, now I am truly farting dust, but the old guys know this stuff.
Title: Re: tuners question
Post by: shooter on October 05, 2020, 10:31:21 am
I've done lots of "hobbies" in my life, guitarist is one of the fails, wood carving is another.


I'll still plug in and play, because there IS something about making musical noise, that beats the hell outta listening to the noise of society  :guitar1