Hoffman Amplifiers Tube Amplifier Forum
Amp Stuff => Tube Amp Building - Tweaks - Repairs => Topic started by: RadioComm on October 04, 2020, 06:30:56 pm
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Hello,
Been a couple of months since I've finished my 6v6 Plexi, and I'm at a point where I'm wondering whether I could make it sound even better... I have more than a few guitar amps, and I know exactly which power amp tubes I like better. So no issue there. Pre-amp tubes, I go into my stash of tubes I've been collecting over the years from an uncountable number of HamFests I've been to. So I'm good there. Now all that remains is the speaker. Never did an upgrade. Always been happy with what I had.
So long story short, choosing a speaker is new to me. In my 6v6 plexi, I have a stock fender champ XD speaker. Wouldn't mind getting a little more clarity/tighness. Especially in the mids.
I go out to the internet, listen to the samples and the shoot outs and so on and so on. And at a certain point they kinda of all sound the same to me... Is it just me... Am I tone deaf... Don't want to buy five of them, do my own comparison, and then return four of them... For blues/rock/funk, I'm currently leaning towards the Eminence Red Coat Ram Rod. I know there's a million and one opinions out there, but I'm interested in hearing those from this forum.
Thanks,
Paul
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What kinda cab is it going in? An open back combo, closed back 1x12 etc?
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Open back. Straight from the Champ XD cabinet.
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https://wgsusa.com/g10cs
I have the 12" version in my 6G3 Deluxe and it's amazing.
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What kinda cab is it going in? An open back combo, closed back 1x12 etc?
Went to your band web site. Enjoyed your "Lucky in Love" song. :thumbsup:
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I think the pickups in your guitar also make a difference in the sound of your speaker. What may sound muddy from one guitar may sound bright and clear from another guitar. That can make speaker choice even more "fun".
My silverface Princeton has a 10 PA speaker in it that I believe came from Crate. It just has a generic tag on the back of the magnet. It's way better than the old Radio Shack speaker that was in it when I got the amp. The speaker has a fairly hefty magnet on it, I think it's the same speaker that Crate was using for their bass amps back in the 1990s. It has a tight low end and plenty of mids and highs.
I've not tried a Celestion speaker in the amp, but the Jensens that I've tried aren't as sensitive as this PA speaker, so they don't get as loud with my amp.
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Speaker upgrades should be nice speakers IMHO. Celestion Greenbacks never disappoint in an 18W amp. YMMV
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Yes the 10” Greenbacks are a bit tighter than the 12” ones. Still good though. I’d probably change to a 12” if there was space in the cab
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But the 10" greenbacks don't have the same characteristics as the 12" greenbacks.
I have been playing through a uk made g12h-55 as reference.
That's where I'm coming up with what 10" would be similar. To my ears some of the other 10" speakers are closer than the 10" greenback
I believe the original poster also requires a 10"
My vote, Celestion gold 10
Everyone seems to make a open back and 10 inch need a smaller cab or a port not just open.
This reduces intermountain and cleans Bass.
Weber 10a series. Great!
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Love the sound stage of alinicos. But they seem to get muddy if you aren't careful with the setup. But everyone's gearr is different .
To my ears the wgs 10et seems to be a good compromise. The celestion g10 vintage I think could get a little tinny sounding. As with the Jensen c10q.
The c10q, 10et, and g10 vintage seem to get closer to a 12" bass response. Still undecided on the creamback? Definitely has the growl in it
Sure everyones gear is different and speakers are as well. I believe a speaker change is far more "tweaking" then anything else you can do to an amp except install a muffler bearing!
10" speakers really are not missing much. Play a Super Reverb with 2 Alnico Webers top and 2 Ceramic Webers at the bottom. Nice. The problem when using a smaller speaker 10" as opposed to 12", all things being equal, the 12 moves a lot more air and we feel it easier. A 10" on a open back pops a lot of bass out the back and is never heard.
When changing from 12's to 10's in a cab, it gets much worse in a open back. Cut you some boards 2" wide and cabinet width. Keep adding them until you hear it get a little mud, remove the one you just installed and make a new one the size of what you have in the amp.
This works well for me.
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I didn't pay attention to speakers for a long time. Then I got some old amps with really great speakers. Now I know to pay attention to them, though I haven't yet done the "buy used speaker, try, sell speaker to buy another used speaker" cycle.
A great speaker will not make a mediocre amp sound great, but a mediocre speaker will absolutely make a great amp sound mediocre.
There's also no one perfect speaker, but a lot of different speaker-voices. You may only like a given speaker when it is paired with the right amp-voice so they're complementary.
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My own tests show that what speaker you use can make a SIGNIFICANT difference in how an amp sounds.
One drastic case in point: I make a 5 watt amp that could be described as a fancied up Champ (all 5W amps could be described this way I suppose). I really like the tone of the amp using an Eminence "Lil' Texas" speaker...this speaker is rated at 150 watts or something like that and is very "efficient"...102db or something like that. It's "clean" with little breakup.
Had a customer who wanted more "speaker breakup" and overdrive at lower volume. We bought a Weber or WGS...can't remember...that is rated at 25 watts and is less efficient. With that speaker, the amp just sounded buzzy to me and had very little clean tone. The speaker seemed to be limiting the capabilities of the amp. I still have that speaker stashed somewhere, unused.
I've done a decent amount of speaker testing with this one amp, and there are really large differences between speakers. Overall, I think it's fair to say that if you are playing a wider range of musical styles, or want the amp to be more versatile in that regard, go with a higher power, more efficient speaker. So far, my personal favorite speaker with a lot of amps is the Eminence Lil' Texas. Celestion Gold 12 is another great sounding speaker, as are the Eminence Wizard and Governor.
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A great speaker will not make a mediocre amp sound great, but a mediocre speaker will absolutely make a great amp sound mediocre.
:thumbsup:
The 1st time i "figured that out";
I gave my kid my version of a 5W champ, plugged it into a 4X12 Marshall and I could not believe I built that monster!! having a good guitarist helped. since then, during the "tweaking" phase I start by rolling speakers, then I roll caps n resistors
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My Marshall 18W drives an Eminence Red Coat 15" Big Ben 225W Guitar Speaker. This speaker has a throaty sound with tight bass. You would not think you were listening to an EL84 amp. I really like it!
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Add all this up and I agree with the consensus. One 10" speaker is not much of a much (unless you're upgrading a Champ form 8" to 10"). 1X 12" or even 15" (per sluckey) is the better choice; or 2X 10" if they fit. Your amp seems to call for British voicing. You can't go wrong with any quality British-voiced speaker. They may sound different, but not better than each other, except to your personal preference. Maybe look for the best deal, or used on eBay. Avatar runs sales. If you get good deals you can buy more than one, and A/B them.
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The consensus is that speakers make a huge difference, and I absolutely agree.
So, how do you make a choice? Honestly, the sound delivered on websites is very poor -- I can't tell much of a difference between speakers via vendors' websites.
In making choices, I've either listened to speakers nearby (impossible for me to do that systematically), or gone with my prior knowledge (I know I like Alnico speakers), read various rags that I respect (eg, ToneQuestReport, not to be confused with Consumers Report), or by talking with vendor reps along with reading their websites.
It's not easy to make a correct decision right off the bat. Reverb comes in handy when you make a big mistake -- and best if you hang on to ALL the original packaging.
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Thanks a mille for all the input. Good stuff. Agreed 10" is not al whole lot of speaker. Even more so with the stock one I have in it now!
I have a couple marshall 1x12 combos. A jcm 800 with Celestion G12 Vintage 30, and a jcm 900 with a Celestion G12T-75. So pulled out my speaker extension cable, hooked them up to the 6v6 plexi, and yes what a huge difference (for the better). I'm sure, it's not only the 12" vs the 10", but also the magnet size that made a difference. When in my basement I do plug my 6v6 plexi into a 8 ohm 4x12 close back cab I have, but I'm not in my 20's anymore, and not up to lugging heavy equipment around (Does anybody remember lugging that almost brand new mid 70's fender twin reverb around, and then gigging with that 13 pound les paul...) So portability is what I'm shooting for here.
I've given up listening to the samples (it's just useless), and will stick to 10". Definitely going with British voicing. Either Eminence or WGS. I'm kind of leaning towards the Eminence Red Coat Ram Rod, I'm guessing it must be close to the Celestion G12T-75. But still haven't made up my mind.