Hoffman Amplifiers Tube Amplifier Forum

Amp Stuff => Tube Amp Building - Tweaks - Repairs => Topic started by: Latole on November 05, 2020, 05:57:01 am

Title: Stanby switch loud "pop"
Post by: Latole on November 05, 2020, 05:57:01 am
Hello ,
I put all my vintage amps in order. Replacement of filters caps, bias cap, bypass caps, 3 progs cable, bias  etc.

I finished my Bandmaster AB763, the only thing I block and the very loud "pop" with the Stanby switch. I did all the known mods *; a resistance across the switch, a 0.047 capacitor and even a new switch. No success  :BangHead:

All mods* that works on my other amps .... except the Bandmaster.
Why ? And what to do ?

https://robrobinette.com/Generic_Tube_Amp_Mods.htm#Pop_Reduction (https://robrobinette.com/Generic_Tube_Amp_Mods.htm#Pop_Reduction)   (fixed link... sluckey)

Thank's if you can help me
Title: Re: Stanby switch loud "pop"
Post by: pdf64 on November 05, 2020, 01:54:50 pm
What value resistor, ie the 47k suggested by Merlin http://www.valvewizard.co.uk/standby.html
If it's still popping with that, then it's followed by a couple of alternatives.
Title: Re: Stanby switch loud "pop"
Post by: Latole on November 05, 2020, 02:43:47 pm
Thank's. I'll try these from Merlin and report ;

 A 47k 2W device is a reasonable compromise. You can also add a 100nF (or so) capacitor across the switch to reduce arcing inside it. It is hard to find (attractive) switches which are rated for high voltage use, especially DC voltage, so most people just use a suitably heavy-duty mains switch. Since the HT current is quite small (hundreds of milliamps, not amps), this does not seem to be a problem.

_________________________________

I don't want to put a bigger/ most powerful switch which need a bigger hole
Title: Re: Stanby switch loud "pop"
Post by: Latole on November 06, 2020, 06:33:25 am
I have tried Merin / wizzard's suggestions without success. 47 K  and  0.1 mfd cap. Always the "pop".
These are just about the same suggestions as Robrobinette
Title: Re: Stanby switch loud "pop"
Post by: HotBluePlates on November 06, 2020, 08:16:14 am
I have tried Merin / wizzard's suggestions without success. ... Always the "pop". ...

On another forum, there are at least 30 threads that are 15 pages long each, bickering about Standby switches.  The best choice is don't use one and if it's already present on your vintage Fender, just leave it in Play mode.
Title: Re: Stanby switch loud "pop"
Post by: Latole on November 06, 2020, 08:31:26 am
I have tried Merin / wizzard's suggestions without success. ... Always the "pop". ...

On another forum, there are at least 30 threads that are 15 pages long each, bickering about Standby switches.  The best choice is don't use one and if it's already present on your vintage Fender, just leave it in Play mode.

AhAh no, it is too easy to give up

My question was ; All mods* that works on my other amps .... except the Bandmaster.
Why ?

Work on other Fender too.
Title: Re: Stanby switch loud "pop"
Post by: sluckey on November 06, 2020, 08:43:04 am
Hi-rez pics, especially STBY switch.
Title: Re: Stanby switch loud "pop"
Post by: pdf64 on November 06, 2020, 09:11:55 am
I have tried Merin / wizzard's suggestions without success. 47 K  and  0.1 mfd cap. Always the "pop".
Including the last 2, ie removing dc from the switch?
Does the pop occur when switching from play to standby, from standby to play, or both?
Title: Re: Stanby switch loud "pop"
Post by: Latole on November 06, 2020, 09:22:01 am
I have tried Merin / wizzard's suggestions without success. 47 K  and  0.1 mfd cap. Always the "pop".
Including the last 2, ie removing dc from the switch?
Does the pop occur when switching from play to standby, from standby to play, or both?

" Including the last 2, ie removing dc from the switch? "

No, I don't want to mod amp wirings
Pop : only from Standby to play , never from Play to Standby

Title: Re: Stanby switch loud "pop"
Post by: pdf64 on November 06, 2020, 09:36:11 am
So it won’t be back emf from the choke, hence the 47k not helping.

How about if the tube in the phase splitter circuit is removed?
Title: Re: Stanby switch loud "pop"
Post by: Latole on November 06, 2020, 11:05:39 am
With PI tube removed Pop is more quiet

And any more Pop if I switch stanby on/ off fews times..

With PI in, always loud pop

What did it mean ?
Title: Re: Stanby switch loud "pop"
Post by: Colas LeGrippa on November 09, 2020, 12:47:15 am
Swap the switch it migjt work.
Title: Re: Stanby switch loud "pop"
Post by: Latole on November 09, 2020, 03:43:04 am
Swap the switch it migjt work.

Read my top message ; ..... even a new switch. No success
Title: Re: Stanby switch loud "pop"
Post by: pdf64 on November 09, 2020, 06:34:14 am
With PI tube removed Pop is more quiet

And any more Pop if I switch stanby on/ off fews times..

With PI in, always loud pop

What did it mean ?
Other than that standby is a stupid concept, I’m not sure  :icon_biggrin:
How about if the power tubes are removed?
Title: Re: Stanby switch loud "pop"
Post by: Latole on November 09, 2020, 06:38:58 am

How about if the power tubes are removed?


Why not going to the best solution ; unplug speaker :laugh:
Title: Re: Stanby switch loud "pop"
Post by: DummyLoad on November 09, 2020, 09:36:56 am
doesn't matter who's method you use: you're kicking in a substantial inductive load that's connected to the speaker, stuff is gonna go pop. maybe not bang pop! but will have at least a low pop or subtle thump - but it's gonna make noise. deal with it! hi-fi stuff has a time delay relay for addressing turn-on thump, but with tube-amps we don't want infinity load.   

if you want something less dramatic, then consider a mute switch on the PI input or if SE, the final preamp? 


--pete
Title: Re: Stanby switch loud "pop"
Post by: Latole on November 09, 2020, 09:41:26 am
doesn't matter who's method you use: you're kicking in a substantial inductive load that's connected to the speaker, stuff is gonna go pop. maybe not bang pop! but will have at least a low pop or subtle thump - but it's gonna make noise. deal with it! hi-fi stuff has a time delay relay for addressing turn-on thump, but with tube-amps we don't want infinity load.   

if you want something less dramatic, then consider a mute switch on the PI input or if SE, the final preamp? 


--pete


 
All mods* that works on my other amps .... except the Bandmaster.
Why ?

I don't want to mod a vintage amp.

Thank you all, amp will stay like that
Title: Re: Stanby switch loud "pop"
Post by: sluckey on November 09, 2020, 09:46:28 am
Which switch are you using? Post a pic.
Title: Re: Stanby switch loud "pop"
Post by: Leevi on November 09, 2020, 09:46:50 am
I have used this component succesfully to remove power switch pops. Standby switch works with DC but try to serial connect cap and resistor across the switch.


https://datasheetspdf.com/mobile-datasheet/PMR209.html (https://datasheetspdf.com/mobile-datasheet/PMR209.html)



/Leevi
Title: Re: Stanby switch loud "pop"
Post by: Latole on November 09, 2020, 09:53:13 am
Which switch are you using? Post a pic.

I have a lots of good switches, many brands, some original for Fender. some more powerfull ( too big to fit anyway)  none work.

I often fix this issue on many amps with new switch and / or capacitor only, with success. 

Thank you.
Title: Re: Stanby switch loud "pop"
Post by: Latole on November 09, 2020, 09:54:43 am
I have used this component succesfully to remove power switch pops. Standby switch works with DC but try to serial connect cap and resistor across the switch.


https://datasheetspdf.com/mobile-datasheet/PMR209.html (https://datasheetspdf.com/mobile-datasheet/PMR209.html)



/Leevi

Did you test it on a Bandmaster ?
Title: Re: Stanby switch loud "pop"
Post by: Leevi on November 09, 2020, 09:59:38 am
No, what is special with Bandmaster (what circuit)?
/Leevi
Title: Re: Stanby switch loud "pop"
Post by: Latole on November 09, 2020, 10:03:04 am
No, what is special with Bandmaster (what circuit)?
/Leevi

I gave all this information when opening the post : AB763
Title: Re: Stanby switch loud "pop"
Post by: Latole on November 09, 2020, 10:12:21 am
Thanks everyone for trying to help me.
I reassembled the chassis in its case. I leave as is.
Title: Re: Stanby switch loud "pop"
Post by: sluckey on November 09, 2020, 10:13:35 am
I don't have any objectional pop with my '67 AB763 Bandmaster. I wonder if there's something wrong with the original rectifier board? Maybe try this...

Disconnect HT leads and B+ wire from rectifier board. Connect these three wires to a temporary rectifier that is floating in air. Any joy?
Title: Re: Stanby switch loud "pop"
Post by: Leevi on November 09, 2020, 10:13:42 am
OK, Bandmaster circuit (AB763) as such is not the root cause for the pop. There must be some other issues causing it.
Have you tried the PMR209?


/Leevi
Title: Re: Stanby switch loud "pop"
Post by: Latole on November 09, 2020, 10:21:04 am
OK, Bandmaster circuit (AB763) as such is not the root cause for the pop. There must be some other issues causing it.
Have you tried the PMR209?


/Leevi

No.
Title: Re: Stanby switch loud "pop"
Post by: Latole on November 09, 2020, 10:25:29 am
I don't have any objectional pop with my '67 AB763 Bandmaster. I wonder if there's something wrong with the original rectifier board? Maybe try this...

Disconnect HT leads and B+ wire from rectifier board. Connect these three wires to a temporary rectifier that is floating in air. Any joy?



  I'll try. 

My B+ read at least 425 volts if I remember, with no ripple. If something wrong with rectifier I should read low B+ no ?
Title: Re: Stanby switch loud "pop"
Post by: sluckey on November 09, 2020, 10:45:22 am
My B+ read at least 425 volts if I remember, with no ripple. If something wrong with rectifier I should read low B+ no ?
It's normal to have about 5 to 10V ripple at the output of the rectifier. My idea is that the original board may be conductive and causing problems. I don't really suspect the diodes, but my suggestion would eliminate the diodes and the board as possible culprits. May be a solution. May be a waste of 5 minutes. But at least you'll know.  :icon_biggrin:

This is just a wild ass guess but it's easy enough to try. Maybe a bit more difficult since you have put the chassis back in the head. I hate putting that last nut on the chassis screw that's behind the PT.
Title: Re: Stanby switch loud "pop"
Post by: Leevi on November 09, 2020, 10:57:43 am
Quote
I hate putting that last nut on the chassis screw that's behind the PT.


Sounds so familiar😁


/Leevi
Title: Re: Stanby switch loud "pop"
Post by: AmberB on November 09, 2020, 10:55:39 pm
That last nut is really fun on a late 60s silverface 50 watt Bassman...
Title: Re: Stanby switch loud "pop"
Post by: Latole on November 10, 2020, 05:34:51 am
I don't have any objectional pop with my '67 AB763 Bandmaster. I wonder if there's something wrong with the original rectifier board? Maybe try this...

Disconnect HT leads and B+ wire from rectifier board. Connect these three wires to a temporary rectifier that is floating in air. Any joy?

Same loud pop !

Try another switch, I have a lot of them, different brand ; same pop
Title: Re: Stanby switch loud "pop"
Post by: kagliostro on November 10, 2020, 05:55:37 am
+ 1 for Leevi's suggestion

it is'nt an expensive component

so give a try to a PMR209.pdf (https://el34world.com/Forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=26658.0;attach=87919)

Franco


Title: Re: Stanby switch loud "pop"
Post by: Latole on November 10, 2020, 06:12:59 am
+ 1 for Leevi's suggestion

it is'nt an expensive component

so give a try to a PMR209.pdf (https://el34world.com/Forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=26658.0;attach=87919)

Franco

 It 's  metallized paper with integrated resistor • 0.047 – 0.47 μF, 22 – 470 Ω,

I built something like that as suggested before with Robrobinette link