Hoffman Amplifiers Tube Amplifier Forum

Amp Stuff => Tube Amp Building - Tweaks - Repairs => Topic started by: JustMike on June 03, 2021, 06:01:47 pm

Title: Got a Free Peavey Windsor
Post by: JustMike on June 03, 2021, 06:01:47 pm
And it works fine. The sound...meh. Looking at the schematic I see it has a cathodyne PI. Do these circuits sound different than a LT PI? Would changing it help the sound (make it more Marshally perhaps?).
Title: Re: Got a Free Peavey Windsor
Post by: PRR on June 03, 2021, 10:24:47 pm
Did you Google?

There seem to be hundreds of opinions and mods for the Windsor.
Title: Re: Got a Free Peavey Windsor
Post by: JustMike on June 04, 2021, 07:16:33 am
Yes, I'm aware. I guess I should have clarified that there dont seem to be any good explanations of the differences between the sound of a cathodyne vs a ltpi in a marshall type circuit. I read Merlin's article on how a cathodyne can sound nasty when it distorts and the easy fix for it. And in Fender ckts, the ltpi retains some of the "glassiness".
 Anyway, i guess I'll try it and see. But I think i'll Marshallize the front end first to establish a base.

 
Title: Re: Got a Free Peavey Windsor
Post by: sluckey on June 04, 2021, 07:40:34 am
Converting a cathodyne to LTP is not a trivial task when the tubes are mounted on a pcb.
Title: Re: Got a Free Peavey Windsor
Post by: John G on June 04, 2021, 04:59:49 pm
Hi,
I think I remember Doug Hammond converting his when he first got it. Its been a few years now though.
John
Title: Re: Got a Free Peavey Windsor
Post by: JustMike on June 06, 2021, 09:36:09 am
Snooping around the schematic I've noticed some similarities and some differences from/to a JCM-800.


1. PV has high gain cathode R values


2. PV has no cathode follower tone stack driver. I thought the point of the cathode follower was to lower the Z of the tube output so the tone stack wouldn't suck the life out of the signal. Also, it serves as the driver for the LTPI in a Marshall. This leads me to point #3.


3. PV has Cathodyne PI which only uses the 2nd triode. Is the first triode in V3 a gain stage to somehow compensate for the lack of a cathode follower?


4. Bias voltage on the Peavey comes in on the supressor grids (pin 1). I guess I don't understand bias circuits well enough to wrap my head around this. My desire is to Marshalize the P.A. and Marshall has pin 1 tied to gnd. I don't think I want the bias voltage going to ground.




Title: Re: Got a Free Peavey Windsor
Post by: sluckey on June 06, 2021, 10:03:37 am
3. PV has Cathodyne PI which only uses the 2nd triode. Is the first triode in V3 a gain stage to somehow compensate for the lack of a cathode follower?
The cathodyne has a gain slightly less than 1. Most people consider the gain stage just prior to the cathodyne to be part of the PI.

Quote
4. Bias voltage on the Peavey comes in on the supressor grids (pin 1). I guess I don't understand bias circuits well enough to wrap my head around this. My desire is to Marshalize the P.A. and Marshall has pin 1 tied to gnd. I don't think I want the bias voltage going to ground.
It's fine to connect the suppressor grid to a negative voltage source rather than ground. I'd leave it as is. Not gonna make it more Marshally to connect to ground. And if you use 6L6s it is irrelevant since pin 1 connects to nothing inside a 6L6. You did notice that the bias voltage is also connected to pin 5 in the usual manner?
 
Title: Re: Got a Free Peavey Windsor
Post by: JustMike on June 06, 2021, 10:47:02 am
You did notice that the bias voltage is also connected to pin 5 in the usual manner?
 


Ah! I did just now..so what is the point of the bias on pin 1 as well as the 10k resistors?
Title: Re: Got a Free Peavey Windsor
Post by: sluckey on June 06, 2021, 11:15:02 am
Don't think of it as bias on G3. Just think of it as G3 is referenced to a negative voltage (which just happens to be the negative bias voltage for G1) rather than ground. As I said, either is fine. Why did Peavey do it like this?  :dontknow:   Give them a call. They are friendly people. Meanwhile, read some of this...

https://www.google.com/search?q=why+connect+suppressor+grid+to+negative+voltage&oq=why+connect+suppressor+grid+to+negative+voltage&aqs=edge..69i57.37039j0j4&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8
Title: Re: Got a Free Peavey Windsor
Post by: thetragichero on June 06, 2021, 11:51:13 am
I've done this on a marshall-style build just because (really it helped out the wiring since it was done on terminal strips throughout), although it currently has kt77s in it so it's not like pin 1 is connected to anything in the tube
Title: Re: Got a Free Peavey Windsor
Post by: PRR on June 06, 2021, 01:44:27 pm
....I thought the point of the cathode follower was to lower the Z of the tube output so the tone stack wouldn't suck the life out of the signal.....

What does 'suck the life' even mean??

The treble is rolled-off if the source impedance is high. But Peavey (unlike Fender 5F6a) has stacked *five* treble-boost stages in front of the tonestack.

Distortion hurts the ears. It hurts less if treble is rolled off afterward. Then to sound OK un-distorted you must boost treble before distortion. V2b and C41 against the tonestack is the top-cut, all before that is top-boost or distortion (in layers).

With all that going on I can't point a finger at the cathodyne. Gobs of "color" before we get to the driver. "My" Ampeg V-40 had the cathodyne and it didn't hinder power or tone.
Title: Re: Got a Free Peavey Windsor
Post by: JustMike on June 06, 2021, 03:52:28 pm

What does 'suck the life' even mean??

In my mind it means to take out the high end sparkle, maybe some dynamics. Or fresh, pert and vivacious like a young 20 year old cheerleader with pearly white teeth, silky hair and tight skin as opposed to Walmart Grandma perhaps with lunch lady arms.
Title: Re: Got a Free Peavey Windsor
Post by: thetragichero on June 06, 2021, 11:05:08 pm
try decreasing c41? 470pf is a start, maybe 220pf although i probably wouldn't go that low
Title: Re: Got a Free Peavey Windsor
Post by: JustMike on June 07, 2021, 05:54:40 am
Good info PRR. This should keep me occupied for a while. Thanks mucho!