Hoffman Amplifiers Tube Amplifier Forum

Amp Stuff => Tube Amp Building - Tweaks - Repairs => Topic started by: 72Blazer on October 24, 2021, 01:17:35 pm

Title: Reverb not working in a Fender Blues Jr.
Post by: 72Blazer on October 24, 2021, 01:17:35 pm
Reverb not working.  When I put a knock on the reverb tank there is no sound like I would expect.  In fact, I temporarily tried a known working reverb tank and I get the expected sound of the springs moving but the reverb effect is not present when strumming the guitar.  I do not see any obvious damage to components on the circuit board.  Any suggestions?

Vr
J.
Title: Re: Reverb not working in a Fender Blues Jr.
Post by: 72Blazer on October 24, 2021, 01:18:27 pm
Here is the schematic I found here on the this site.
Title: Re: Reverb not working in a Fender Blues Jr.
Post by: PRR on October 24, 2021, 02:53:32 pm
> put a knock on the reverb tank there is no sound like I would expect.

Bad pickup coil. Are there any Ohms in it? Have you mixed-up the 4Ω semd and the 1K pickup?

> I temporarily tried a known working reverb tank and I get the expected sound of the springs moving but the reverb effect is not present when strumming

Is this "expected sound" in the speaker or coming out of the tank walls?
Title: Re: Reverb not working in a Fender Blues Jr.
Post by: Latole on October 24, 2021, 03:01:36 pm
Use a scope
Or it is this OP  ?

Title: Re: Reverb not working in a Fender Blues Jr.
Post by: 72Blazer on October 24, 2021, 03:14:29 pm
The springs moving made sound through the speaker, but guitar signal sound has no reverb effect.  Hopefully that makes better sense.  Thanks
Title: Re: Reverb not working in a Fender Blues Jr.
Post by: thetragichero on October 24, 2021, 05:40:10 pm
check reverb driver stage. as mentioned, a scope would be supremely helpful here. trace back from reverb send and see where the signal dies
Title: Re: Reverb not working in a Fender Blues Jr.
Post by: glass54 on October 24, 2021, 06:05:36 pm
Dear 72Blazer,
Quick Check  :icon_biggrin::
Vol at 1/4 rotation, Tones at 50%, MV at 1/4 rotation, Reverb pot start at 1/4 rotation, join tips of RCA with alligator clip, strum guitar and you should be able to use Reverb Level control as another "Volume" (Note: RCAs removed from Tank)
From what you have described (in post #4), I suspect the pickup coil as PRR has eluded to. It's unusual for the 4560 Op Amp to go faulty BUT not impossible and more likely the tank. Double check the coil wires to RCA connectors, as these can fracture/break.
Trust this helps, kind Regards
Mirek 
Title: Re: Reverb not working in a Fender Blues Jr.
Post by: 72Blazer on October 24, 2021, 07:07:30 pm
Thanks Mirek/all.  I'll give that a go in the morning.

Vr
J.
Title: Re: Reverb not working in a Fender Blues Jr.
Post by: jordan86 on October 24, 2021, 08:51:51 pm
I had a similar issue recently on a 2006 BJ. There was a connection inside the tank that broke. Cheap tiny wire and a crap plastic connector. Had to toss the connector and solder wires directly on.
Title: Re: Reverb not working in a Fender Blues Jr.
Post by: Latole on October 25, 2021, 03:28:02 am
Test reverb recovery circuit as Sluckey explain here ;

https://el34world.com/Forum/index.php?topic=27336.0

" Try one more thing before you order a replacement tank. Plug your guitar into the reverb return jack using adapters, or gator clip leads and a phone jack. It may be easier to just temporarily replace the phono jack with a phone jack. You should be able to play guitar through the amp (not loudly) and the reverb pot will act as a volume control. If this test passes then get another tank. "

-Sluckey
Title: Re: Reverb not working in a Fender Blues Jr.
Post by: 72Blazer on October 25, 2021, 07:54:24 am
Iverified the wires to the coil wires to RCA connectors are good.  I then used alligator clips to connect the two tips of the RCA connectors as Mirek instructed.  The reverb pot did act as a volume.  I need a new reverb tank - correct?

Vr
j.
Title: Re: Reverb not working in a Fender Blues Jr.
Post by: thetragichero on October 25, 2021, 09:25:21 am
measure dc resistance between rca jack tip and sleeve (for lack of better nomenclature) on the reverb tank input and output
Title: Re: Reverb not working in a Fender Blues Jr.
Post by: 72Blazer on October 25, 2021, 10:26:07 am
Output:  1.6M Ohms
Input:  58 ohms
Title: Re: Reverb not working in a Fender Blues Jr.
Post by: PRR on October 25, 2021, 10:33:35 am
> Output:  1.6M Ohms

Should be a few K at most.

Look inside for leads broken at the RCA or at the coil.
Title: Re: Reverb not working in a Fender Blues Jr.
Post by: 72Blazer on October 25, 2021, 12:29:21 pm
PRR,

Both green and black wires (output and input side) have solid connection and continuty.  This includes inside the little plastic connector tabs that the wires feed. 

I rechecked and OHMs:

Output:  1.2M Ohms (this time)
Input:  58 ohms

Lastly, using a deluxe reverb tank/NOT correct blues Jr type, when I temporarily connected it up to this amp--it DID NOT deliver the reverb effect out the speaker either when strumming the guitar.  I don't know if this is a clue or if it is even relevant since it is not the correct type of reverb tank.  Appreciate the T/S efforts.

Thanks again.
Title: Re: Reverb not working in a Fender Blues Jr.
Post by: Latole on October 25, 2021, 12:31:47 pm
Shake that tank to ear.
Title: Re: Reverb not working in a Fender Blues Jr.
Post by: sluckey on October 25, 2021, 12:37:21 pm
I don't think that DR tank will work in your BJ circuit. Read reply #9 and test the recover circuit. If you can hear guitar then the recovery circuit should be OK.
Title: Re: Reverb not working in a Fender Blues Jr.
Post by: thetragichero on October 25, 2021, 02:06:30 pm
deluxe reverb tank would have an input impedance of 8ohms. your blue junior uses a solid state reverb driver/recovery stage, so the input impedance is on the order of several hundred or a few thousand ohms. a 4560 isn't capable of driving an impedance that low (quick google suggest maybe as low as 400 ohms). you'd need something like an lm386 to have any hope of driving the deluxe reverb tank and even that would likely be quite weak (also the pcb isn't setup for lm386, yadda yadda)

follow the suggestions of the folks here, but your > 1M on the tank output leads me to believe it's either a bum transducer or there's an issue between the rca jack and the coil (unhook the molex connector and take a resistance reading directly at the pins to the coil)
Title: Re: Reverb not working in a Fender Blues Jr.
Post by: 72Blazer on October 25, 2021, 03:35:47 pm
Followed reply 9 and guitar signal heard/adjustable with reverb pot.  Understand my FDR tank is not suitable.  Ordering the correct replacement tank from MOJO.

Thank all.

Vr
J.
Title: Re: Reverb not working in a Fender Blues Jr.
Post by: PRR on October 25, 2021, 08:29:35 pm
> Output:  1.6M Ohms
> Output:  1.2M Ohms (this time)


1.2, 1.6, all the same.... it CAN'T be MEGs, you are reading damp dust on the insulation. Or maybe your finger?
Title: Re: Reverb not working in a Fender Blues Jr.
Post by: 72Blazer on October 30, 2021, 02:50:43 pm
PRR I stand corrected.

I disconnected the molex connectors and measured the pins on the coil as instructed in reply #17:

Output was OL
Input side: 58 Ohms

Does this now confirm the reverb tank is inop?

Vr
J.
Title: Re: Reverb not working in a Fender Blues Jr.
Post by: Latole on October 30, 2021, 03:03:02 pm
Yes if your reading are good
Title: Re: Reverb not working in a Fender Blues Jr.
Post by: 72Blazer on October 30, 2021, 03:24:52 pm
Ok then.  I learned a little bit about reverb tanks in the process. 
Thanks again everyone.
Vr
J.
Title: Re: Reverb not working in a Fender Blues Jr.
Post by: Latole on October 31, 2021, 03:38:43 am
All useful to know about reverb tanks.

https://www.amplifiedparts.com/tech-articles/spring-reverb-tanks-explained-and-compared
Title: Re: Reverb not working in a Fender Blues Jr.
Post by: 72Blazer on October 31, 2021, 03:47:49 pm
Thanks Latole-even a section on this particular reverb tank for FB Jr.  Good stuff.
Vr
J.
Title: Re: Reverb not working in a Fender Blues Jr.
Post by: Latole on November 01, 2021, 03:17:06 am
http://www.accutronicsreverb.com.


I have already seen on the Accutronics site (Accu Bel Sound) that they also mention the measured ohms (DC ohms) in addition to the impedance. I don't have access to this information anymore because it requires the FlashPlayer plug-in.
Title: Re: Reverb not working in a Fender Blues Jr.
Post by: 72Blazer on November 04, 2021, 08:44:10 pm
Just thought I'd let y'all know I put in the new replacement reverb tank tonite and she's good to go now.  My jam buddy will be pleased it's ops normal now.  Again-I appreciate the troubleshooting tips.

Vr
J.