Hoffman Amplifiers Tube Amplifier Forum

Amp Stuff => Tube Amp Building - Tweaks - Repairs => Topic started by: Travis8 on November 22, 2021, 06:24:56 am

Title: KT66 to EL34
Post by: Travis8 on November 22, 2021, 06:24:56 am
Hi, I have a tubeampdoctor JTM45 build with KT66.

How can I changue it to EL34? Thanks.
Title: Re: KT66 to EL34
Post by: HotBluePlates on November 22, 2021, 06:43:35 am
Make sure Pin 1 of the output tube socket is connected to Pin 8.  Re-bias the amp when you install the EL34s.

You probably have some healthy screen resistors, but if not add 1kΩ 5w resistors going into Pin 4 of the output tube sockets.
Title: Re: KT66 to EL34
Post by: Travis8 on November 22, 2021, 06:49:05 am
Here is the schematic
Title: Re: KT66 to EL34
Post by: Travis8 on November 22, 2021, 06:52:19 am
Make sure Pin 1 of the output tube socket is connected to Pin 8.  Re-bias the amp when you install the EL34s.

You probably have some healthy screen resistors, but if not add 1kΩ 5w resistors going into Pin 4 of the output tube sockets.

Pin 1 go with pin 8, so I must swap 470ohm resistors with 1k resistor (between 4 and 6) and rebias when I install el34? No OT swap ?
Title: Re: KT66 to EL34
Post by: Willabe on November 22, 2021, 09:08:48 am
Here is the schematic

That's not a schematic. That's a layout drawing.
Title: Re: KT66 to EL34
Post by: Willabe on November 22, 2021, 09:13:20 am
Pin 1 go with pin 8, so I must swap 470ohm resistors with 1k resistor (between 4 and 6) and rebias when I install el34? No OT swap?

The layout drawing shows pin 1 is connected to pin 8, double check to make sure.

Yes, swap 1K/5w screen grid R's for the 470R.

Yes, re-bias when you swap the tubes.

No need to change the OT.
Title: Re: KT66 to EL34
Post by: pdf64 on November 22, 2021, 09:55:21 am
… No OT swap ?
What are the electrical characteristics of the OT you’ve got, eg intended primary impedance?
If it's the typical JTM45 8k, then you may wish to try setting the impedance selector a step higher than the total effective load impedance.
That will take some stress off the screen grids.
Title: Re: KT66 to EL34
Post by: Travis8 on November 22, 2021, 03:46:36 pm
… No OT swap ?
What are the electrical characteristics of the OT you’ve got, eg intended primary impedance?
If it's the typical JTM45 8k, then you may wish to try setting the impedance selector a step higher than the total effective load impedance.
That will take some stress off the screen grids.


125c1a is my OT
Title: Re: KT66 to EL34
Post by: jordan86 on November 22, 2021, 03:49:24 pm
That model # looks like a choke?!?
Title: Re: KT66 to EL34
Post by: Travis8 on November 22, 2021, 04:02:08 pm
https://www.tubeampdoctor.com/en/choke-4h-90-ohm-for-fender-boogie?number=125C1A


This one
Title: Re: KT66 to EL34
Post by: Willabe on November 22, 2021, 04:14:32 pm
No, that's the choke.

That's not the OT.
Title: Re: KT66 to EL34
Post by: Travis8 on November 22, 2021, 04:28:52 pm
Sorry!!

https://www.tubeampdoctor.com/en/output-transf.-for-marshall-jtm45-2xkt66-with-8-16-ohms?number=MJTM45A

This one.
Title: Re: KT66 to EL34
Post by: Travis8 on November 22, 2021, 05:20:48 pm
… No OT swap ?
What are the electrical characteristics of the OT you’ve got, eg intended primary impedance?
If it's the typical JTM45 8k, then you may wish to try setting the impedance selector a step higher than the total effective load impedance.
That will take some stress off the screen grids.


https://www.tubeampdoctor.com/en/output-transf.-for-marshall-jtm45-2xkt66-with-8-16-ohms?number=MJTM45A
Title: Re: KT66 to EL34
Post by: pdf64 on November 22, 2021, 05:31:09 pm
Yes, that’s an 8k primary, so it’s worth trying the ‘alternative loading’ I suggested.
Title: Re: KT66 to EL34
Post by: Travis8 on November 23, 2021, 01:46:40 am
Yes, that’s an 8k primary, so it’s worth trying the ‘alternative loading’ I suggested.

So I must swap 1K/5w screen grid R's for the 470R.
Then I must use the impedance selector one step higher, for example, If I wanna use it with 8 ohms cab I must select 16 ohm output.
Finally I install EL34 and bias it

That´s correct?
Title: Re: KT66 to EL34
Post by: pdf64 on November 23, 2021, 03:41:57 am
… I must use the impedance selector one step higher, for example, If I wanna use it with 8 ohms cab I must select 16 ohm output.
Finally I install EL34 and bias it ….
I don’t think the impedance thing should be considered mandatory. The change I suggested may be a bit easier on the EL34.
Consider trying it both ways.
Title: Re: KT66 to EL34
Post by: Travis8 on November 23, 2021, 03:46:27 am
… I must use the impedance selector one step higher, for example, If I wanna use it with 8 ohms cab I must select 16 ohm output.
Finally I install EL34 and bias it ….
I don’t think the impedance thing should be considered mandatory. The change I suggested may be a bit easier on the EL34.
Consider trying it both ways.

OK, I will try using EL34 with the step higher option. Thanks.
Title: Re: KT66 to EL34
Post by: Travis8 on November 23, 2021, 04:13:41 am
… I must use the impedance selector one step higher, for example, If I wanna use it with 8 ohms cab I must select 16 ohm output.
Finally I install EL34 and bias it ….
I don’t think the impedance thing should be considered mandatory. The change I suggested may be a bit easier on the EL34.
Consider trying it both ways.

If I replace resistors and I bias, I could still using the 4 ohms output?

Maybe I prefer to still having this option.
Title: Re: KT66 to EL34
Post by: tubeswell on November 23, 2021, 05:12:53 am
Optimal load for an EL34 in centre bias Class A with a plate voltage around (say) 450 = 450/(25/450) = 8,100R which is 4,050R for a pair of EL34. Go slightly lower (say 3k2) to ensure the screens don’t overheat under big signal conditions.


You could run the pair at 8k but you’ll get less power output, and you’ll want good screen resistors to soak up excess screen current under big signal. (Higher load resistance = shallower load line = more Ig2 when plate voltage swings closer to zero).
Title: Re: KT66 to EL34
Post by: Travis8 on November 23, 2021, 06:11:08 am
Optimal load for an EL34 in centre bias Class A with a plate voltage around (say) 450 = 450/(25/450) = 8,100R which is 4,050R for a pair of EL34. Go slightly lower (say 3k2) to ensure the screens don’t overheat under big signal conditions.


You could run the pair at 8k but you’ll get less power output, and you’ll want good screen resistors to soak up excess screen current under big signal. (Higher load resistance = shallower load line = more Ig2 when plate voltage swings closer to zero).

Maybe the safer way to do it is use 1k/5W and higher step on impedance selector. I always use 8 and 16 ohms cabs
Title: Re: KT66 to EL34
Post by: Travis8 on December 02, 2021, 10:13:47 am
I change resistor and I rebias the amp, it´s work but sometimes loose power and I get some intermittent sound

Recommendation?
Title: Re: KT66 to EL34
Post by: pdf64 on December 02, 2021, 10:45:39 am
So did it do that when the KT66 were fitted?
Has it ever worked right?
Title: Re: KT66 to EL34
Post by: Travis8 on December 02, 2021, 11:25:28 am
So did it do that when the KT66 were fitted?
Has it ever worked right?

No, with KT66 was fine
Title: Re: KT66 to EL34
Post by: pdf64 on December 02, 2021, 11:44:28 am
What condition is the 1k 5W board mounted resistor (that feeds the screen grid resistors) in, eg looking overheated?
Title: Re: KT66 to EL34
Post by: Travis8 on December 05, 2021, 01:56:59 pm
What condition is the 1k 5W board mounted resistor (that feeds the screen grid resistors) in, eg looking overheated?

They look in good condition.

Maximum bias I can get it´s 30ma, I think is very low, how can I get more bias range?

Could low bias making the amps sound comes and goes?

thanks
Title: Re: KT66 to EL34
Post by: Williamblake on December 06, 2021, 07:11:07 am
Quote from: RCZ

Could low bias making the amps sound comes and goes?

thanks
Loosing screen voltage would do that. Dind't somebody just change the screen resitors?
Title: Re: KT66 to EL34
Post by: pdf64 on December 06, 2021, 07:49:56 am

Maximum bias I can get it´s 30ma, I think is very low …
Why do you think that?
Bear in mind that the anode of KT66 isn’t as beefy as that of EL34.

Quote
how can I get more bias range?
Reduce the bias voltage (ie applied to pin5).

Quote
Could low bias making the amps sound comes and goes?
I can’t see how that could feasibly occur, especially as 30mA does not seem a particularly low idle current.
Title: Re: KT66 to EL34
Post by: Travis8 on December 06, 2021, 07:57:58 am
Quote from: RCZ

Could low bias making the amps sound comes and goes?

thanks
Loosing screen voltage would do that. Dind't somebody just change the screen resitors?

Yes, I use 1k 5W on screen resistor, but sound comes and goes :/
Title: Re: KT66 to EL34
Post by: shooter on December 06, 2021, 08:16:34 am
sound coming and going is typically blocking distortion in the PI.  A scope comes in handy to know if that's the case.
Title: Re: KT66 to EL34
Post by: sluckey on December 06, 2021, 09:02:40 am
Maximum bias I can get it´s 30ma, I think is very low, how can I get more bias range?
See attached pic to provide proper bias for EL34s...
Title: Re: KT66 to EL34
Post by: Travis8 on December 07, 2021, 06:12:46 am
Maximum bias I can get it´s 30ma, I think is very low, how can I get more bias range?
See attached pic to provide proper bias for EL34s...

I will try 150k...

Blocking PI distorsion means?
Title: Re: KT66 to EL34
Post by: shooter on December 07, 2021, 08:14:06 am
this explains it pretty well;


The Long-Tail Pair (aikenamps.com) (http://www.aikenamps.com/index.php/the-long-tail-pair)
Title: Re: KT66 to EL34
Post by: pdf64 on December 07, 2021, 08:20:01 am
There’s also http://aikenamps.com/index.php/what-is-blocking-distortion
If the issue can occur at non overdriven signal levels, then it won’t be blocking distortion.
Title: Re: KT66 to EL34
Post by: Travis8 on December 07, 2021, 08:48:34 am
There’s also http://aikenamps.com/index.php/what-is-blocking-distortion
If the issue can occur at non overdriven signal levels, then it won’t be blocking distortion.


The amps sound but the sound comes and goes in all positions.

I will try to fix the bias issue and look if that helps...
Title: Re: KT66 to EL34
Post by: PRR on December 07, 2021, 10:39:48 am
> sound comes and goes

Missing or not-really-connected grid resistor. Any stage.
Title: Re: KT66 to EL34
Post by: Travis8 on December 10, 2021, 03:26:14 am
There’s also http://aikenamps.com/index.php/what-is-blocking-distortion
If the issue can occur at non overdriven signal levels, then it won’t be blocking distortion.

I changue to 150k and now I can bias it better.

Bias now is 43ma and it´s look like the sound goes well :) thanks guys