Hoffman Amplifiers Tube Amplifier Forum

Amp Stuff => Tube Amp Building - Tweaks - Repairs => Topic started by: Big chief on February 07, 2022, 10:22:35 am

Title: Fender Twin Reverb
Post by: Big chief on February 07, 2022, 10:22:35 am
Silverface believe to be 1975 with master volume low volume
Have replaced power tubes and pre amp tubes
Voltage V1 pin1 210 pin6 213 V2 pin1 209 pin6 208 V3 pin1 400 V4 pin1 150 pin6 150
V5 pin1 338 pin 6 337 V6 pin 1 300 pin6 287 V 7-8-9-10 pin 3 429 pin6 424

With volume pots at full open very little sound have used 2 different speaker cabinets 4 ohm
Any help would be great. Thanks
Title: Re: Fender Twin Reverb
Post by: shooter on February 07, 2022, 10:31:23 am
got a scope?
what's the bias VDC on the grids of the PA tubes?
does the amp have a "pre-amp out" jack? 
If so, can you feed that out into another amp/mp3 player?
Title: Re: Fender Twin Reverb
Post by: pdf64 on February 07, 2022, 10:45:13 am
Does the issue affect both channels?
What’s the V6 cathode voltage, pin3&8?
Title: Re: Fender Twin Reverb
Post by: Latole on February 07, 2022, 03:27:11 pm
What is the heater voltage at each tube ?

Any mod in the amp ?
Title: Re: Fender Twin Reverb
Post by: uki on February 07, 2022, 06:18:21 pm
If you could provide the schematic it would be a great help.
Title: Re: Fender Twin Reverb
Post by: sluckey on February 07, 2022, 06:51:44 pm
Contact plexi50. He does a lot of repair work in your area.
Title: Re: Fender Twin Reverb
Post by: Big chief on February 07, 2022, 08:01:08 pm
Grids V1 pin 2 0 pin7 .03 V2 pin2 0 pin7 .03 V3 pin2 0 pin7 .06 V4 pin2 0 pin 7 .02
V5 pin2 12.9 pin7 12.2 V6 pin2 82 pin7 76
V7 pin8 0 pin3 424 V8 pin8 0 pin3 425 V9 pin8 0 pin3 429  V10 pin8 0 pin3 429

FYI plex is a good friend and helps me
Title: Re: Fender Twin Reverb
Post by: Big chief on February 07, 2022, 08:05:41 pm
I do not have a scope  no amp out jack
I’m retired and love to work on old amps as I have played old country music for 71 years

Thanks
Title: Re: Fender Twin Reverb
Post by: Latole on February 08, 2022, 03:29:10 am
https://ampwares.com/amplifiers/fender-silverface-twin-reverb/#

Yesterday ; where is the answer ?
What is the heater voltage at each tube ?
Any mod in the amp ?
Title: Re: Fender Twin Reverb
Post by: Latole on February 08, 2022, 03:46:00 am
You need a scope and signal generator ; A basic tool to work in a amps.

Without these tools you will only be able to fix the easy problems.

If you don't have these basic tools, you have to compensate with a solid knowledge in electronics
Title: Re: Fender Twin Reverb
Post by: Big chief on February 08, 2022, 06:30:04 am
I have a fair knowledge of tube amps I mostly do the easy stuff

Heater voltages V1 2.3 V2 2.3 V3 3.0 V4 2.3 V5 3.0 V6 3.0
 V7 3.5 V8 3.5 V9 3.1 V10 3.5

Does not appear to have any mods  this amp has been mistreated imo
I’m trying to help a frien
Thanks
Title: Re: Fender Twin Reverb
Post by: uki on February 08, 2022, 08:50:07 am
Quote
Voltages

V1 pin1 210  pin 2 0  pin6 213  pin7 .03

V2 pin1 209  pin2 0   pin6 208  pin7 .03

V3 pin1 400  pin2 0   pin6 ?    pin7 .06

V4 pin1 150  pin2 0   pin6 150  pin7 .02

V5 pin1 338  pin2 12.9 pin6 337 pin7 12.2

V6 pin1 300  pin2 82  pin6 287 pin7 76

V7 pin3 424 pin6 424 pin8 0

V8 pin3 425 pin6 424 pin8 0

V9 pin3 429 pin6 424 pin8 0

V10 pin3 429 pin6 424 pin8 0


Heater voltages
V1 2.3
V2 2.3
V3 3.0
V4 2.3
V5 3.0
V6 3.0
V7 3.5
V8 3.5
V9 3.1
V10 3.5
Title: Re: Fender Twin Reverb
Post by: Latole on February 08, 2022, 08:53:07 am
I have a fair knowledge of tube amps I mostly do the easy stuff

Heater voltages V1 2.3 V2 2.3 V3 3.0 V4 2.3 V5 3.0 V6 3.0
 V7 3.5 V8 3.5 V9 3.1 V10 3.5

Does not appear to have any mods  this amp has been mistreated imo
I’m trying to help a frien
Thanks


They are low ; too low .

Voltage reading are from the ground ?

You should read 6.3 volts between pins 5/4 and 9 on preamp tubes
From ground  you must have 6.3 / 2 =3.XX not 2.3


Title: Re: Fender Twin Reverb
Post by: Willabe on February 08, 2022, 09:45:01 am
Thank you uki for doing this, much easier to read now!   :icon_biggrin:
 
Quote
Voltages

V1 pin1 210  pin 2 0  pin6 213  pin7 .03

V2 pin1 209  pin2 0   pin6 208  pin7 .03

V3 pin1 400  pin2 0   pin6 ?    pin7 .06

V4 pin1 150  pin2 0   pin6 150  pin7 .02

V5 pin1 338  pin2 12.9 pin6 337 pin7 12.2

V6 pin1 300  pin2 82  pin6 287 pin7 76

V7 pin3 424 pin6 424 pin8 0

V8 pin3 425 pin6 424 pin8 0

V9 pin3 429 pin6 424 pin8 0

V10 pin3 429 pin6 424 pin8 0


Heater voltages
V1 2.3
V2 2.3
V3 3.0
V4 2.3
V5 3.0
V6 3.0
V7 3.5
V8 3.5
V9 3.1
V10 3.5
Title: Re: Fender Twin Reverb
Post by: Latole on February 08, 2022, 09:46:29 am
Do you know V7,8,9,10 pin 8 are ground ?
0 volts is right
Title: Re: Fender Twin Reverb
Post by: Willabe on February 08, 2022, 09:49:12 am
Big chief, you need to measure the heaters across their pins, 4/5 - 9, 2 - 7 and not 1 meter probe to a heater pin and the other meter probe to ground. 
Title: Re: Fender Twin Reverb
Post by: Latole on February 08, 2022, 09:53:26 am
Quote
Voltages

 

Heater voltages


V1 2.3   = 4.6  heater voltage  :BangHead:
V2 2.3   = 4.6
V3 3.0   = 6
V4 2.3  = 4.6
V5 3.0  =  6
V6 3.0.  = 6
V7 3.5   = 7 !!!!
V8 3.5   = 7  !!!
V9 3.1    = 6.2 Good
V10 3.5 = 7


If you read 7 volts at V8 , you must read 7 volts at V9 not 6.2  :w2:
Tubes are wired in parallel

Something wrong with your test meter or amp wiring or.......... ?
Title: Re: Fender Twin Reverb
Post by: Latole on February 08, 2022, 09:55:09 am
Big chief, you need to measure the heaters across their pins, 4/5 - 9, 2 - 7 and not 1 meter probe to a heater pin and the other meter probe to ground.

That is what I wrote 1 hour earlier........
Title: Re: Fender Twin Reverb
Post by: Big chief on February 08, 2022, 09:57:42 am
Pins 4-5 on this amp are tied together
At pilot light from ground on each side 3.1 Across the pilot light 6.2
Pin 8 to ground 0
I have check plate resistors none out of specs  next check coupling caps for dc current I guess
Title: Re: Fender Twin Reverb
Post by: Latole on February 08, 2022, 10:04:21 am
Pins 4-5 on this amp are tied together
At pilot light from ground on each side 3.1 Across the pilot light 6.2
Pin 8 to ground 0
I have check plate resistors none out of specs  next check coupling caps for dc current I guess

Yes 4 and 5 are always wired together, that is what we mean when we wrote 4/5 and pin 9
Read with voltmeter at pin 9 ansd pin 4 or 5 . you should read 6.2 as pilot light
Title: Re: Fender Twin Reverb
Post by: Latole on February 08, 2022, 10:07:16 am
uki wrote ;

If you could provide the schematic it would be a great help.
Title: Re: Fender Twin Reverb
Post by: Willabe on February 08, 2022, 10:16:04 am
....Across the pilot light 6.2

That fine, but because you had lower readings before on the 1st/2nd preamp tubes, best measure that 1st preamp tube again across pins 4/5 and 9. 
Title: Re: Fender Twin Reverb
Post by: Big chief on February 08, 2022, 10:22:30 am
Found some frayed wire going to replace all heater wire then recheck voltages

Thanks for all your time and help
Title: Re: Fender Twin Reverb
Post by: Big chief on February 08, 2022, 05:02:25 pm
Repaired heaters wires to all tubes

Have 6.2 on all heaters set power tube bias at -49  all at once all tubes lost power but pilot light stayed on    Now don’t know what to do
Title: Re: Fender Twin Reverb
Post by: shooter on February 08, 2022, 05:06:43 pm
Quote
all tubes lost power
as in the filaments went out or the B+ went to zero?
Title: Re: Fender Twin Reverb
Post by: Big chief on February 08, 2022, 05:32:33 pm
I found the problem loose heater wire  my fault.

However I have dc voltage through the coupling caps should I replace them .1uf
Title: Re: Fender Twin Reverb
Post by: sluckey on February 08, 2022, 05:55:49 pm
However I have dc voltage through the coupling caps should I replace them .1uf
Those caps are supposed to have dc on each side.
Title: Re: Fender Twin Reverb
Post by: Latole on February 09, 2022, 02:43:20 am
I found the problem loose heater wire  my fault.

 

Congrat !

Answer #3 february 7

Title: Re: Fender Twin Reverb
Post by: Big chief on February 09, 2022, 06:56:24 am
Have checked ohm’s on all resistors none seam to be more than 10%
Rechecked voltages
V1 pin1 219 pin6 227 V2 pin 1 222 pin6 228 V3 pin1 414 pin6 412 V4 pin 1 230 pin6 232
V5 pin 1 353 pin6 353 V6 pin1 312 pin6 301
V7 pin3 439 pin6 403 V8 pin3 439 pin6 402 V9 pin3 434 pin6 434 V10 pin3 435 pin 6 433

6.2 to all heaters
Power tubes are new and checked  pa tubes test good on my tube tester have replaced some and moved around   Chopped stick board no loose connections   What am I missing  still very low volume
Title: Re: Fender Twin Reverb
Post by: Latole on February 09, 2022, 07:01:11 am
Many tube tester are not reliable, best is to pu know good preamp tubes
Title: Re: Fender Twin Reverb
Post by: sluckey on February 09, 2022, 08:00:06 am
Examine the speaker jacks. Is the plug in the correct jack? Do you have the simple two lug jack for the external speaker? Or is it the more complicated jack with transfer circuit switch contacts as found in later TRs?

You still have not provided a correct schematic for your amp. There are more than one TR circuit with a MV and we cannot guess which one based on the little info you have provided.
Title: Re: Fender Twin Reverb
Post by: Latole on February 09, 2022, 08:06:19 am


You still have not provided a correct schematic for your amp. There are more than one TR circuit with a MV and we cannot guess which one based on the little info you have provided.

Third time we ask  :BangHead:
Title: Re: Fender Twin Reverb
Post by: Big chief on February 09, 2022, 08:49:43 am
I’m using schematic Twin reverb Aa270 layout
I search this web site a d printed the schematic that I’m using

I have not been able to find the exact schematic for this amp yet and I have searched all I know
Have used 2 different speaker cabinets with 4 ohm and have checked and cleaned the 2 jacks that are on the chassis I’ll try my best to take photo of the chassis that I’m working on
This amp is a mid 70’s with master volume
Title: Re: Fender Twin Reverb
Post by: Latole on February 09, 2022, 08:53:00 am
I’m using schematic Twin reverb Aa270 layout
 

Wrong layout ; no master volume

Did you look to my link ? Answer #8
All are there.

Can you read schematic ?
Layout is not good to trouble shouting.
Title: Re: Fender Twin Reverb
Post by: Big chief on February 09, 2022, 10:07:45 am
Yes I can read schematic  I hope I answered your # 8

I am still looking for schematic with master volume now I’m trying to send photo of chassis

Some times I get a little confused
Title: Re: Fender Twin Reverb
Post by: uki on February 09, 2022, 10:37:47 am
Please post more pictures from the other side of the chassis, as well front and back faces, someone might spot the schematic for you with that info !

Oh and about the heater wires, make sure the same wire is in the same pin number for all sockets, unless the schematic says otherwise.
Title: Re: Fender Twin Reverb
Post by: Latole on February 09, 2022, 11:43:13 am
Yes I can read schematic  I hope I answered your # 8

I am still looking for schematic with master volume now I’m trying to send photo of chassis



Show us the right schematic.
Schematic is the first thing you need before working in a amp .

Title: Re: Fender Twin Reverb
Post by: sluckey on February 09, 2022, 12:11:45 pm
I am still looking for schematic with master volume now I’m trying to send photo of chassis
Look in Hoffman's schematic library. It's there. Does your amp's MV have a push/pull switch on it? If so, look for that schematic. If not, look for the MV without the push/pull switch.
Title: Re: Fender Twin Reverb
Post by: pdf64 on February 09, 2022, 01:15:41 pm
The 470ohm unbypassed V3 cathode resistor shown in the photo indicates that this may be the appropriate schematic https://el34world.com/charts/Schematics/files/Fender/Fender_twin_reverb_sf_100_schem.pdf

The previous version without the pull boost has a bypassed 2k2 V3 cathode resistor https://el34world.com/charts/Schematics/files/Fender/Fender_twinreverb_sf_100_mv_noboost.pdf
Title: Re: Fender Twin Reverb
Post by: Latole on February 09, 2022, 01:55:13 pm
You have a very good eyes

Title: Re: Fender Twin Reverb
Post by: pdf64 on February 09, 2022, 02:03:14 pm
I was getting desperate trying to find something to move this along!  :laugh:
Title: Re: Fender Twin Reverb
Post by: Latole on February 09, 2022, 02:06:46 pm
I was getting desperate trying to find something to move this along!  :laugh:

 :occasion14:
Title: Re: Fender Twin Reverb
Post by: Big chief on February 09, 2022, 05:05:20 pm
More Photos
Title: Re: Fender Twin Reverb
Post by: Big chief on February 09, 2022, 05:07:08 pm
More Photos
Title: Re: Fender Twin Reverb
Post by: pdf64 on February 09, 2022, 05:49:51 pm
The resolution of those photos is inadequate for them to be much use. We need to be able to zoom in and get detail, not mush.
Title: Re: Fender Twin Reverb
Post by: Big chief on February 09, 2022, 07:22:30 pm
hope these photos are better
Title: Re: Fender Twin Reverb
Post by: Big chief on February 09, 2022, 07:24:22 pm
one more time
Title: Re: Fender Twin Reverb
Post by: Latole on February 10, 2022, 02:49:15 am
What is that pot ?

Title: Re: Fender Twin Reverb
Post by: Big chief on February 10, 2022, 05:26:32 am
That pot hum balance for power tubes to the best of my knowledge

Could I possibly have a weak out put or choke problem it seams no matter what I do the volume does not change I have replaced every tube even power tube sockets
Title: Re: Fender Twin Reverb
Post by: Latole on February 10, 2022, 05:29:58 am
That pot hum balance for power tubes to the best of my knowledge

Could I possibly have a weak out put or choke problem it seams no matter what I do the volume does not change I have replaced every tube even power tube sockets

Without the right ( and basic amps repair  ) tools ; scope and audio generator....... good luck
Title: Re: Fender Twin Reverb
Post by: TitaniumValhalla on February 10, 2022, 12:20:23 pm
That pot hum balance for power tubes to the best of my knowledge

It looks like it’s connected to V2 but I’m having trouble tracing it within the rats nest. For what it’s worth the SF Fenders I’ve worked on that had hum balance pots did not look like that, but I’m not familiar with the variation you’re working on.
Title: Re: Fender Twin Reverb
Post by: Latole on February 10, 2022, 02:31:18 pm
That pot hum balance for power tubes to the best of my knowledge

It looks like it’s connected to V2 but I’m having trouble tracing it within the rats nest. For what it’s worth the SF Fenders I’ve worked on that had hum balance pots did not look like that, but I’m not familiar with the variation you’re working on.

I agree.
Title: Re: Fender Twin Reverb
Post by: Big chief on February 10, 2022, 05:56:15 pm
Thanks to everyone that took your time to help me it was greatly appreciated
Amp headed to plexi50 Monday
Title: Re: Fender Twin Reverb
Post by: Willabe on February 13, 2022, 10:03:21 am
Thanks to everyone that took your time to help me it was greatly appreciated
Amp headed to plexi50 Monday.

Please let us know what plexi50 finds.   :icon_biggrin:
Title: Re: Fender Twin Reverb
Post by: marcusinmusic on February 20, 2022, 01:31:43 pm
Big cheif if you still need the schematics and lay out I have it,  If no one can cure your SFTR 75" I will be happy to help , They are my favorite amp, many misleading speaches are repeated about these amps,and they can never be a black face, however a few simple configs will have that amp stomping everything around, Ive been playing them like this for over 40 years .   Ill be happy to help if needed.   marcus
Title: Re: Fender Twin Reverb
Post by: Latole on February 20, 2022, 02:36:09 pm
Big cheif if you still need the schematics and lay out I have it,  If no one can cure your SFTR 75" I will be happy to help , They are my favorite amp, many misleading speaches are repeated about these amps,and they can never be a black face, however a few simple configs will have that amp stomping everything around, Ive been playing them like this for over 40 years .   Ill be happy to help if needed.   marcus

Like blackface these amps will always works and play nice in 40 years and more with basic maintenance