Hoffman Amplifiers Tube Amplifier Forum
Amp Stuff => Tube Amp Building - Tweaks - Repairs => Topic started by: Arry on July 25, 2022, 03:07:24 am
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Hello guys. After trying various tweed deluxe reissues by different makers I’ve decided to try and build a 5E3 myself using one of the many kits available online. To be clear I’m not an amp expert at all, but I have good ears and have had previous experience with electronics project kits.
I have a couple questions regarding how to approach the 5E3 circuit. My experience with the stock 5E3 is based on a Victoria 20112 that I owned for some years: it had a nice clean tone but with way too much bass; moreover, the overdriven tone was nothing to write home about, it sounded very raspy and unmusical (to me at least). I then had the Victoria chassis modded by Rondo at the Tweed Deluxe Speed Shop to his “Studio Series” specs. That certainly improved the overdrive capabilities of the amp, unfortunately at the expense of the clean tone: to my ears the modded “studio” circuit (which is certainly nicely built but it’s nothing but a basic 5E3 with considerably smaller value coupling caps and the so called Paul C/Ampeg mod) didn’t sound like a tweed deluxe anymore, sounded way too tight and “lean”, almost like a different amp, without the warmth and that typical tweed natural, vocal, organic feel.
I know for sure that a stock 5E3 has too much bass for me, and I would like the amp to have a nice overdriven tone when cranked up, but the right “recipe” is probably somewhere in between stock and fully modified, a la Speed Shop.
I know that I will have to reduce the value of coupling caps in order to tighten up the amp a bit. What do you think about these two possible options?
In Mod 1 I’m replacing the .1uf coupling caps in the preamp section, leaving the output section alone. I noticed that almost all Fender amps (as well as other brands) use .1 caps in the output section, so maybe there are good reasons for it. I also read that reducing the value of the output coupling caps will reduce the overall gain of the amp…?
Mod 2 on the other hand keeps the preamp stock (apart from the normal channel) and goes with smaller caps in the output section. How differently will these two mods affect the sound of the amp? Is there a consensus on which way to go?
Also, I’d like to leave the 25uF bypass caps alone: I might be wrong, but my feeling is that the 25uF value (rather than a smaller one) is partly responsible for the feel of Fender amps.
I also have a question about a possible power/volume reduction feature. To give you a reference, my main current amp is a Victoria 5112, which is plenty loud for the type of gigs that I do (rockabilly, rhythm and blues, jazz).
More that a volume reduction, I’m thinking of a headroom reduction. I know there are master volume, or more advanced power scaling options, but what I’m looking for is a fixed type arrangement, that lets me knock down a few dBs (don’t need bedroom levels volume) and get the amp to distort at a comfortable stage volume level. The closest thing to this I’ve tried so far was a Pentode/Triode switch, which didn’t sound spectacular, but was at least more musical than the various master volumes I’ve tried. I’d be grateful if you had any input on that, thanks!
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You might want to take a look at this YouTube of a modified 5E3 Deluxe and see if this is something you are looking for?
Tweedle Dee 5e3 Dumble Clone - Tweed Deluxe 5e3 With Alexander Dumble Style Mods - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=30afKBarxHM&t=1017s)
schematic and layout
(7) Tweedle Dee Deluxe and Tweedle Dee Champ - The Amp Garage (http://ampgarage.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=25599)
Also
Ceriatone Tweedle Dee Strat Blues noodle - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=elxGRBFhDn0)
TweedleD01122018.jpg (1039×999) (ceriatone.com) (http://www.ceriatone.com/ceriatone/wp-content/uploads/2019/12/TweedleD01122018.jpg)
With respect, Tubenit
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My advice for a first build is to get it up and running as stock.
Only when it is running as it should, would I think about mods.
The tweedle dee version as suggested above is on my bucket list.
I have a 1958 5e3. I retired the Jensen speaker and replaced it with a Celestion Blue. That tightened it up.
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You might want to take a look at this YouTube of a modified 5E3 Deluxe and see if this is something you are looking for?
Tweedle Dee 5e3 Dumble Clone - Tweed Deluxe 5e3 With Alexander Dumble Style Mods - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=30afKBarxHM&t=1017s)
Thanks for the suggestion, I'll look it up!
My advice for a first build is to get it up and running as stock.
I have a 1958 5e3. I retired the Jensen speaker and replaced it with a Celestion Blue. That tightened it up.
My idea is to build it as close as stock as possible, that's why I had posted two very basic options for the mods. I did have a stock tweed deluxe amp for a while (a Victoria 20112) but it definitely had too much bass, no matter what speaker I used in it (Weber Jensen, Celestion G12H, Alnico Blue...).
Anyone could share some insight on how changing coupling caps values in the preamp versus in the power section of the amp is going to affect the sound? Thanks!
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I’m curious, did you utilize the tonal peculiarities of manipulating the interactive second volume control?
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Also, I’d like to leave the 25uF bypass caps alone: I might be wrong, but my feeling is that the 25uF value (rather than a smaller one) is partly responsible for the feel of Fender amps.
Lowering the value of those two 25µF caps to 1, 2.2, or 4.7µF will reduce the boomy bass sound . Probably have more effect than changing the .1µF couplers. You just need to get a handful of caps and try all three of these mods one at a time or in combination. You will probably find a combination that makes you happy.
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Lowering the value of those two 25µF caps to 1, 2.2, or 4.7µF will reduce the boomy bass sound.
Plugging in a Telecaster works as well. LOL