Hoffman Amplifiers Tube Amplifier Forum
Other Stuff => Effects => Topic started by: tubenit on October 13, 2022, 06:52:12 am
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I've never played an amp with an attenuator so I have zero idea of what they are capable of doing? The YouTubes I've watched of attenuators seem to be demo-ing the attenuators at what seems to still be a moderate volume? In other words, a YouTube might show a 50watt amp with an attenuator but it sounds like the attenuator is simply dropping the volume to what might be like 12-14 watts in the YouTube and not 5 watts?
I have a friend who has a 14 watt cathode biased tube amp that is "too loud" for his home.
He is now considering getting a Plexi 50w and using an attenuator like the "Ox" to try to have something that's perhaps 5 watts or less in volume.
Q1) Would an attenuator like the OX actually reduce a 50w Plexi down to a 5 watt type volume and still maintain a good crunch overdriven tone? OR is there
sort of a minimum level of attenuation before it loses "that" bigger sounding overdrive tone? In other words, using an attenuator with a 50w amp ..........
can you still keep good tone down to 5 watts OR once you attenuate below 12 watts, it loses good tone?
Q2) Do attenuators wear out tubes or amps faster?
Q3) IF someone was going that attenuator route to reduce volume, is it worth the $$$ to get something like an OX vs. something much less expensive like a
Weber Mini-mass?
Q4) IF someone was looking to get a Plexi sound at a 5 watt or so volume, do you think one could come closer to that with the attenuator OR a Plexi 50w
topology but using 6BM8 power tubes (cathode biased) for maybe 7-8 watts and then using a PPIMV to further reduce the tone? In other words, go the
attenuator or 6BM8 power tubes for that tone?
With respect, Tubenit
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These are my opinions based on limited experience:
Q1) Yes, the modern technology found in some of these high priced attenuators does a great job of preserving tone. Most guys using them are recording direct into their computer so it is difficult to determine how that would sound in a room directly through a speaker.
Q2) One reason that an attenuator might wear out tubes faster is because you will be pushing the output tubes harder than you would if you weren't using an attenuator.
Q3) The higher priced stuff gives you more options for signal routing and computer interface. I was recently looking into the Fryette Power Station.Listen to how crazy this is. It has a 50W tube output stage that you use to re-amp your attenuated signal from your 50W amp. :l2: But there is some magic that happens there...check it out: https://www.fryette.com/power-station-integrated-reactance-amplifier/ And have him check out this: https://www.fryette.com/fryette-power-load-ir-pl-ir-in-stores-now/
Q4) IMHO, the only way to get the true Plexi tone that everyone freaks out about is to build a Plexi and push some EL34s. Then knock it down with a competent load. Get some low efficiency speakers and point them at your head.
Here's the biggest thing I have learned:The tone that you perceive in the room is more about how the volume comes out of the speaker and hits your ear. i.e - if you don't push the speaker, you will be missing some of the TONE. Highs have a lot to do with TONE and how we perceive them has a lot to do with our ears. A resistance-only load dampens HF response. The more expensive boxes add switchable capacitors and/or speaker motors to overcome the muffled sound associated with a cheap resistance-only load.
Hope that helps.
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I tend to agree with Silvergun about the complexities of tone, and the importance of speakers.
A relatively simple (and fun) project is this: https://www.marshallforum.com/threads/simple-attenuators-design-and-testing.98285/ (https://www.marshallforum.com/threads/simple-attenuators-design-and-testing.98285/) I built one and it does work with my 5881 based P-P amps. Tone from that is ok, but not the same as with a pushed speaker
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Some of the Weber attenuators have high filtering (adjustment). I have two of their attenuators and I don't perceive any lack of high frequency.
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I have a Weber attenuator. I love the air displacement induced by the speakers. There's just no way to simulate that. Take a Champ, unhook the ten inch speaker, and plug in the 4x12 cab. You'll hear the difference.
When I use my attenuator, it's only to drop the volume down a slight notch. Especially if I'm just a little bit louder than the drummer, but I want to keep my tone and even out my volume to the rest of my buddies. Any significant drop in volume with the attenuator is just not for me, and certainly not to use as a direct line into a DAW. To me, that setting just sounds horrible. When recording direct into a computer, I'll rather just use an amp modeler. I've been using my POD 2.0 for that longer than I can remember.
Anyway, that's my MO. :guitar1
Take care everyone.
ttfn
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Guys, I appreciate the thoughtful responses and observations of your experience with attenuators. Thanks!
With respect, Tubenit