Hoffman Amplifiers Tube Amplifier Forum

Amp Stuff => Tube Amp Building - Tweaks - Repairs => Topic started by: rafaelctt on December 08, 2022, 05:03:17 am

Title: 40 V AC in the green terminals of 6,3V
Post by: rafaelctt on December 08, 2022, 05:03:17 am
Hello, is it normal that in vacuum(unloaded), there is 40 V AC in the green terminals?
Thank you
(https://i.postimg.cc/rpw3G1zm/291AEX.jpg)
Title: Re: 40 V AC in the green terminals of 6,3V
Post by: pdf64 on December 08, 2022, 05:26:45 am
Please explain exactly how you measure 40VAC; ie where are you putting the meter probes?
Title: Re: 40 V AC in the green terminals of 6,3V
Post by: Latole on December 08, 2022, 07:36:31 am
OP make some mistake for sure.
Title: Re: 40 V AC in the green terminals of 6,3V
Post by: sluckey on December 08, 2022, 07:54:14 am
I've never measured voltage in a vacuum before. I suspect you do not have one meter probe connected to a green wire and the other meter probe connected to the other green wire. If you do have the meter connected properly, then the meter is not set correctly, or the meter is lying to you, or maybe just needs a new battery.
Title: Re: 40 V AC in the green terminals of 6,3V
Post by: JPK on December 08, 2022, 10:45:42 am
On the Apollo 13 mission, as a test, I measured voltage in a vacuum and it was the same.  :l2:


All joking aside this is not normal. Possible causes were already mentioned above. It might measure close to 7 VAC unloaded but not 40 VAC.
Title: Re: 40 V AC in the green terminals of 6,3V
Post by: acheld on December 08, 2022, 11:36:06 am
Could the primaries be hooked up incorrectly?   Mains voltage?

Hi-rez photos might help us understand the situation.
Title: Re: 40 V AC in the green terminals of 6,3V
Post by: kagliostro on December 08, 2022, 11:50:12 am
Instrument set for DC instead of AC ?

Franco
Title: Re: 40 V AC in the green terminals of 6,3V
Post by: kagliostro on December 08, 2022, 03:14:03 pm
No, STOP ALL, which are the voltages you measure on the other windings ???

Franco
Title: Re: 40 V AC in the green terminals of 6,3V
Post by: rafaelctt on December 09, 2022, 12:42:28 am
(https://i.postimg.cc/dtjv7rm4/medida-tensi-n-vac-o.jpg)
Title: Re: 40 V AC in the green terminals of 6,3V
Post by: rafaelctt on December 09, 2022, 12:44:22 am
Instrument set for DC instead of AC ?

Franco
voltmeter at 600 V AC
Title: Re: 40 V AC in the green terminals of 6,3V
Post by: pdf64 on December 09, 2022, 03:28:06 am
Ok, that seems weird, it’s worth trying a new battery in the meter, and measuring the 6.3V AC on another amp.
Title: Re: 40 V AC in the green terminals of 6,3V
Post by: kagliostro on December 09, 2022, 03:36:14 am
+ 1 for pdf64

Franco
Title: Re: 40 V AC in the green terminals of 6,3V
Post by: rafaelctt on December 09, 2022, 04:48:41 am
To make this measurement, is it essential to have the green-yellow wire connected to ground?
Title: Re: 40 V AC in the green terminals of 6,3V
Post by: Latole on December 09, 2022, 05:16:25 am
Ok, that seems weird, it’s worth trying a new battery in the meter, and measuring the 6.3V AC on another amp.

IMO a defective battery will show dimm digits
Title: Re: 40 V AC in the green terminals of 6,3V
Post by: sluckey on December 09, 2022, 05:23:23 am
To make this measurement, is it essential to have the green-yellow wire connected to ground?
No. Try the 200V range. What does the meter read when you are connected to the yellow wires?

New battery in meter?

Title: Re: 40 V AC in the green terminals of 6,3V
Post by: Latole on December 09, 2022, 05:59:00 am
Where are the probe connected to the meter ? ; picture is cut
Meter look defective.
Title: Re: 40 V AC in the green terminals of 6,3V
Post by: rafaelctt on December 09, 2022, 05:59:57 am
To make this measurement, is it essential to have the green-yellow wire connected to ground?
No. Try the 200V range. What does the meter read when you are connected to the yellow wires?

New battery in meter?
ok i will measure it and tell you
Title: Re: 40 V AC in the green terminals of 6,3V
Post by: rafaelctt on December 09, 2022, 06:01:00 am
Where are the probe connected to the meter ? ; picture is cut
Meter look defective.
That's not the meter. It's a simulation.
Title: Re: 40 V AC in the green terminals of 6,3V
Post by: Latole on December 09, 2022, 06:17:57 am

ok i will measure it and tell you

I am not reassured if it is like the transformer measurement...... :laugh:

Put new good one. !
Title: Re: 40 V AC in the green terminals of 6,3V
Post by: PRR on December 09, 2022, 11:35:55 am
> IMO a defective battery will show dimm digits

Depending on design, sometimes a low battery reduces the internal reference and the external voltages will read high. However the cases I have seen, 5%-10% high, not 600% high.

Put a 1k (or 1.5k) resistor load on the winding and try again. Electronic meters are so very sensitive that they will pick up capacitive leakage from a broken winding to other windings like the 230V and 600V. House electricians who run long cable with 0V and 120V and a third UN-connected wire for later wiring may see 59V on the "vacuum" (unconnected) wire. Some electrician-market meters add loading to reduce "phantom" voltages.
Title: Re: 40 V AC in the green terminals of 6,3V
Post by: kagliostro on December 09, 2022, 11:54:34 am
Quote
... "phantom" voltages.

When I rebuilded my house wiring my phase finder captured lot of thoise phantoms

Franco
Title: Re: 40 V AC in the green terminals of 6,3V
Post by: DummyLoad on December 10, 2022, 12:50:15 pm
To make this measurement, is it essential to have the green-yellow wire connected to ground?


No.


--Pete
Title: Re: 40 V AC in the green terminals of 6,3V
Post by: rafaelctt on December 11, 2022, 03:25:34 am
Fixed!
Thank you all. It was indeed a problem with the voltmeter. I have changed to another and solved. :worthy1: :worthy1: :worthy1:
Title: Re: 40 V AC in the green terminals of 6,3V
Post by: Latole on December 11, 2022, 05:52:00 am
Fixed!
Thank you all. It was indeed a problem with the voltmeter.  and solved. 

That is what I wrote.
I hope you bought a good one.
Title: Re: 40 V AC in the green terminals of 6,3V
Post by: kagliostro on December 11, 2022, 07:01:34 am
Any $ spent to keep a good equipment is a gained $

Franco
Title: Re: 40 V AC in the green terminals of 6,3V
Post by: Latole on December 11, 2022, 07:14:48 am
Any $ spent to keep a good equipment is a gained $

Franco

100 %right.

A pro may use cheap stuff because he will know if tools are working or not. And know their limits.
Newbie, no. He must use quality and fool proof tools.
Buying cheap is most of the time, throw out the money
Title: Re: 40 V AC in the green terminals of 6,3V
Post by: rafaelctt on December 11, 2022, 07:30:16 am
I don't usually work with very bad equipment. I think it was a probe problem.
(https://i.postimg.cc/dV3mfYG8/8e0c91d8-896e-463a-83b0-9f4d1836b002.jpg)
Thanks!!
Title: Re: 40 V AC in the green terminals of 6,3V
Post by: rafaelctt on December 11, 2022, 07:32:19 am
Fixed!
Thank you all. It was indeed a problem with the voltmeter.  and solved. 

That is what I wrote.
I hope you bought a good one.

I did the measurement with an oscilloscope to check if there was any induction
Title: Re: 40 V AC in the green terminals of 6,3V
Post by: Latole on December 11, 2022, 07:34:47 am
You think ?

Probe are easy to check if the are good or not.

Buying good equipment is the easy part. Knowing how to use them it is another story. Too many people want to work in the amp now, not take few hours to study before.

I don't say it is you
Title: Re: 40 V AC in the green terminals of 6,3V
Post by: rafaelctt on December 11, 2022, 07:42:07 am
You think ?

Probe are easy to check if the are good or not.


Sorry for the inconvenience. This is what happens when you don't review measurements. I asked you if it could be logical because it's the second tube amp I've made. (I've made dozens of solid state.) And yes, a probe will be checked, of course. Thank you anyway. I'll try to bother as little as possible.
Title: Re: 40 V AC in the green terminals of 6,3V
Post by: rafaelctt on December 11, 2022, 07:49:41 am
You think ?

Probe are easy to check if the are good or not.

Buying good equipment is the easy part. Knowing how to use them it is another story. Too many people want to work in the amp now, not take few hours to study before.

I don't say it is you
Totally agree with you friend. I assure you that is not the case. I have been in electronics for many years but I think that anyone can make a mistake. I apologize
Title: Re: 40 V AC in the green terminals of 6,3V
Post by: bmccowan on December 11, 2022, 08:03:14 am
In my opinion, no apology is necessary. That's what the Forum is for, finding mistakes and fixing them. Or avoiding them in the first place. You were trying - that's what counts.
Title: Re: 40 V AC in the green terminals of 6,3V
Post by: sluckey on December 11, 2022, 08:54:57 am
Why would you use that cheap $10 XL830L when you have much better equipment available?