Hoffman Amplifiers Tube Amplifier Forum

Amp Stuff => Tube Amp Building - Tweaks - Repairs => Topic started by: kagliostro on December 21, 2022, 04:20:02 am

Title: Please can you give a look to this Preamp Grounding - Merlin's Medium Gain Pream
Post by: kagliostro on December 21, 2022, 04:20:02 am
To fit in a Geloso G1 1020 A I've draw a Layout for the Merlin's Medium Gain Preamp

(https://i.imgur.com/itvnwDU.jpg)


The Board is obligated to be two rows (Eyelets) and tall 40mm


Pots and Sockets are (and must remain) on the same side of the Board (as in Hoffman Stout)

(https://i.imgur.com/Z70M466.jpg)



I think (read Hope) it is correct (the shield of the shielded cable is deliberately connected to pin #3 of V1a - a trick I learned here into the forum)

What I'm asking you for, is if the Ground Scheme is correct for you

Many Thanks for any consideration and/or advice

Franco
Title: Re: Please can you give a look to this Preamp Grounding - Merlin's Medium Gain Pream
Post by: sluckey on December 21, 2022, 04:28:53 am
Ground looks good. Pots are wired backwards.
Title: Re: Please can you give a look to this Preamp Grounding - Merlin's Medium Gain Pream
Post by: kagliostro on December 21, 2022, 08:31:31 am
Ciao Steve Grazie

Quote
Pots are wired backwards.

 :w2: :w2: :w2:

I was looking to this (Number 3 on the left)  :worthy1: :worthy1: :worthy1:

(https://i.imgur.com/qABq3ar.jpg)

and not to this  :sad2: :sad2: :sad2:

(https://i.imgur.com/o26BAVZ.jpg)


I'm definitely on confusion  :BangHead: :BangHead: :BangHead:


Franco




Title: Re: Please can you give a look to this Preamp Grounding - Merlin's Medium Gain Pream
Post by: sluckey on December 21, 2022, 09:14:33 am
The pots in your layout are viewed from the back side and they are wired backwards. The volume pot with the numbered lugs is viewed from the shaft side.
Title: Re: Please can you give a look to this Preamp Grounding - Merlin's Medium Gain Pream
Post by: pdf64 on December 21, 2022, 12:38:31 pm
Rather than a dedicated common line for the controls back to the input, I think Merlin’s methodology would take the common from a control to the cathode of the following stage.
Title: Re: Please can you give a look to this Preamp Grounding - Merlin's Medium Gain Pream
Post by: kagliostro on December 21, 2022, 01:12:56 pm
Thanks Steve & pdf64

@ pdf64

I've translated what you are saying bu not sure about what you mean

Be patient, can you try to explain me one other time ? (with other words)

Many Thanks

Franco
Title: Re: Please can you give a look to this Preamp Grounding - Merlin's Medium Gain Pream
Post by: pdf64 on December 21, 2022, 02:04:38 pm
Sorry, I meant to clarify.
So the common lug of the gain pot should be wired directly to the common leg of the 2k2 2nd stage pin8 V1 cathode resistor.

And the common terminals of the bass and volume pots should be linked and wired to the common of the following stage (power amp?).

And further apologies for your translator, I use the term ‘circuit common’ or ‘common’ rather than ‘ground’.
I dislike using the term ‘ground’ because I see it causing confusion / conflation between the concepts of ‘circuit common’ and the safety earth chassis connection.
Title: Re: Please can you give a look to this Preamp Grounding - Merlin's Medium Gain Pream
Post by: tubeswell on December 21, 2022, 02:55:49 pm
Keeping the ground returns physically grouped to be as close as possible to the relevant filter cap node, with only one point of contact to the chassis for the entire ground buss, is good system IMHO YMMV



Title: Re: Please can you give a look to this Preamp Grounding - Merlin's Medium Gain Pream
Post by: kagliostro on December 21, 2022, 05:41:56 pm
Many Thanks pdf64 & Tubeswell

@ pdf64

Now all is more clear, the thing enlighted me is the explanation about the use of the term Common

and I can follow your explanations in the right way

Obviously also here we have a distinguish Terra e Massa (Ground and Mass), they aren't the same thing but usually speaking we talk about to put (to connect) to ground meaning a common connection on the circuit

@ Tubeswell

In my Layout I tried to connect all at a single point to the chassis, near the female Jack intake, the input female jack intake will be an insulated model

Something like this
(https://i.imgur.com/dvPqYJV.png)

About the remaining of the circuit the idea is to don't modify the original of the Geloso connections also if may be the board will be completely rebuild and listen to the amp before to apply other mod

Thanks Again

Franco
Title: Re: Please can you give a look to this Preamp Grounding - Merlin's Medium Gain Pream
Post by: kagliostro on December 23, 2022, 04:31:31 am
Better this time ?

(https://i.imgur.com/ayDJNqC.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/mocg1Lg.jpg)

Thanks

Franco

Title: Re: Please can you give a look to this Preamp Grounding - Merlin's Medium Gain Pream
Post by: pdf64 on December 23, 2022, 05:33:21 am
Better this time ?
Did you attach an amended layout? It’s just that I can’t see any difference  :dontknow:

FYI your layout has the input grid stopper at 100k, rather than the 10k schematic value.
Title: Re: Please can you give a look to this Preamp Grounding - Merlin's Medium Gain Pream
Post by: kagliostro on December 23, 2022, 07:44:46 am
Ciao pdf64 Thanks

Quote
Did you attach an amended layout? It’s just that I can’t see any difference  :dontknow:

Be patient

This is the Layout on the first post of this thread
(https://i.imgur.com/itvnwDU.jpeg)

And this is the Layout attached to post #9
(https://i.imgur.com/ayDJNqC.jpg)

Do you see any difference ? I see it (at input corrected 100p connection and reversed connections on pots)

This is the schematic (no mod on it, it stay the same)
(https://i.imgur.com/mocg1Lg.jpg)

---

Quote
FYI your layout has the input grid stopper at 100k, rather than the 10k schematic value.

I see a 10K resistor (Brown-Black-Orange)

What do you see here ?

(https://i.imgur.com/tEYWDGA.jpeg)


Do you see they are Brown-Black-Orange & Brown-Black-Yellow on your monitor ?

Thanks Again

Franco
Title: Re: Please can you give a look to this Preamp Grounding - Merlin's Medium Gain Pream
Post by: sluckey on December 23, 2022, 08:09:36 am
I was using a laptop when I made those 3 watt resistors. The "3" band looked very orange. But on my desktop computer the "3" band looks gold. I never went back to change that. The controversial "orange" band is the main reason that I switched from the pretty color coded resistor shapes to a single color with the value written on the resistor body. No more confusion!   :icon_biggrin:
Title: Re: Please can you give a look to this Preamp Grounding - Merlin's Medium Gain Pream
Post by: kagliostro on December 23, 2022, 08:57:49 am
This days also the guy that has the 1020 A readed on his monitor 100K instead of 10K and ... also I was thinking to swap to numbers valued resistors instead of color valued resistors (same problem two times in the same week isn't to be underrated)

Thanks Steve

Franco
Title: Re: Please can you give a look to this Preamp Grounding - Merlin's Medium Gain Pream
Post by: kagliostro on December 23, 2022, 11:20:07 am
Me stupid, pdf64 was surely looking to the ground sistem not the whole Layout

Franco
Title: Re: Please can you give a look to this Preamp Grounding - Merlin's Medium Gain Pream
Post by: sluckey on December 23, 2022, 11:58:51 am
Franco, I've updated my Power Resistors shapes library. Orange should now look more like orange. Save the attached and replace your current "Power Resistors.vss" file. *.vss files are probably located in your "Documents\My Visio Shapes" folder.
Title: Re: Please can you give a look to this Preamp Grounding - Merlin's Medium Gain Pream
Post by: kagliostro on December 23, 2022, 01:20:12 pm
Oh, Many Thanks Steve

Which a kind present

Franco