Hoffman Amplifiers Tube Amplifier Forum
Amp Stuff => Tube Amp Building - Tweaks - Repairs => Topic started by: Platefire on September 26, 2023, 01:50:15 pm
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I've had a request for such a thing. I know there is a lot of compromises such as a mid/raw control and NFB switch to a AB 763 circuit. Also there is the different tone stacks, split load verses Long Tail PI plus different operating voltages and transformers. Considering all this, has this ever been done successfully? Before I tell him NO! thought I would ask the question;>)
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https://tube-town.net/cms/?DIY/18Plus/TT_5Ae3_-_MKII&normal
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That looks like a nice amp! To bad I can't read German :icon_biggrin:
That pretty much settles it. No way you could build these two discreet authentic classic amps in one combo unless you build separate power supplies, separate transformers and separate controls in one chassis. I'll tell him No---over my pay scale
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I would pass on that also. If the guy wants a true AB763 and a true 5E3 tone ............. you can't get there in one amp because of the phase invertor differences plus cathode vs. fixed biased etc......
IF he was willing to have a 5E3 preamp and a AB763 preamp go into an LTPI cathode biased power amp & he was realistic that this is going to be a definite compromise in tone, then maybe it would be worth considering? IF he is a purist, then I'd sure walk away from it. Both you and he could end up unhappy.
With respect, Tubenit
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He is one of the lead players in a Eagle Tribute Band. He plays the Tele. He wants authentic Blackface and 5E3 tone. He's got a Fender combo I think he's pretty happy with that has similar Blackface tone but is missing the tweed sound. I told him last night that for true 5E3 tone, I think he needs to get a real 5E3 or buy a accurate 5E3 clone. Get a good A/B/Y box and switch in between and combine as needed. They have a roadie to move and set up their amps, so set up of two amps wouldn't be an issue.
I told him the cheap way out is to find a good OD pedal that can mostly simulate the tweed behavior and run it through his clean Fender. There is a ton of pedal available these days to create all kinds of sounds. If I remember correctly, I was thinking Fender had a 5E3 pedal? I've already told him "No can Do"on the amp and gave him an extended explanation why I couldn't. Like you say, anything you would build with a AB763 main amp and a 5E3 preamp would be a compromise and it would be a gamble rather he would be happy with the results. BTW--he also wanted the channels foot switchable
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You gave him a good explanation and excellent advice! I hope he places high value on it and is appreciative.
Two amps & A/B/Y box is headed the right direction.
With respect, Tubenit
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Maybe a Tone King Imperial would work for him? It is widely praised for clean fender sounds in the rhythm channel, and the lead channel is supposed to be in the tweed vein. It is neither long tail pair nor cathodyne, it has a paraphrase phase inverter
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Here's your answer...
(http://sluckeyamps.com/5e3/sisters_front.jpg)
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Maybe it would be a possibility to build a 763 circuit with an effects loop, and add in a eq pedal at that point to focus on the frequencies you'd want to push harder.
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... He wants authentic Blackface and 5E3 tone. He's got a Fender combo I think he's pretty happy with that has similar Blackface tone but is missing the tweed sound. I told him last night that for true 5E3 tone, I think he needs to get a real 5E3 or buy an accurate 5E3 clone. Get a good A/B/Y box and switch in between and combine as needed. ...
I told him the cheap way out is to find a good OD pedal that can mostly simulate the tweed behavior and run it through his clean Fender. ...
I agree with everything you told him.
BTW--he also wanted the channels foot switchable
There are supposedly some Mesa amp models that can do what he's asking, and have foot switchable channels. Let him explore the modern multi-channel master-volume amps out there.
But I'd recommend staying away from building one. Especially building one to a "feature list" that a player gathered up. People think they know what they want, then they try the amp with "the features" and decide it doesn't sound or work as well as they imagined.
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You gave him a good explanation and excellent advice! I hope he places high value on it and is appreciative.
Two amps & A/B/Y box is headed the right direction.
With respect, Tubenit
Worked a show for a national act recently & that was the set-up for the guitars.
A rented Fender, a Quilter (that they carried) & a Radial BigShot ABY for each guy
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An AB763 preamp with 5e3 PI and power amp doesn't sound like a Deluxe Reverb. But it's got a very usable and unique sound. And it can replace the Blackface amp on stage, because the tonestack delivers the typical frequency response. So, why not? Give it a try.
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... So, why not? Give it a try.
It's one thing when you're building for yourself, and hold open the option to tinker it to your liking.
It's very different when building something for someone else. Especially when you have misgivings about their request.
An AB763 preamp with 5e3 PI and power amp doesn't sound like a Deluxe Reverb. But it's got a very usable and unique sound. And it can replace the Blackface amp on stage, because the tonestack delivers the typical frequency response. ...
Supply voltages are different, biasing is running the tubes in a different place, (lack of) negative feedback is different, no-reverb is different (even if it's barely-on). If you're going for "exact" the type of speaker & its sound is different.
If the player is going to accept "close enough" then they can easily do that with a pedal and their existing blackface-like amp, and for a lot less $$$. There are many options available that fill that niche.
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Actually, I recently saw a video from Wampler on my feed, and he just released a second run of tweed and blackface preamp pedals. Might be worth checking out.
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Maybe a Tone King Imperial would work for him? It is widely praised for clean fender sounds in the rhythm channel, and the lead channel is supposed to be in the tweed vein. It is neither long tail pair nor cathodyne, it has a paraphrase phase inverter
I have to disagree on this. I have no clue why the Tone King Imperial is referred to as a combo of a BF Deluxe Reverb and a 5E3 in one amp. Neither of those Fenders are to be found in the Imperial. The Imperial has a different tone stack than the DR, there's a paraphase PI and it's cathode biased. I have built this Imperial several times, but it sounds nothing like the DR, nor the 5E3. Compare the schematics and you'll see that those are really different amps. Not saying either sounds any less than amazing
That said, I think one could build an amp that does BFDR and 5E3 pretty close. But it involves a lot of relays switching at tone stack, PI topology and bias. It will be a real hassle to get this where you'd want it, but in theory it seems possible to me.