Hoffman Amplifiers Tube Amplifier Forum

Amp Stuff => Tube Amp Building - Tweaks - Repairs => Topic started by: TIMBO on August 10, 2025, 09:24:57 pm

Title: 6M5 6EM5 Valves in Push Pull
Post by: TIMBO on August 10, 2025, 09:24:57 pm

Hi Guys,
Got some of the above valves and got a neat little circuit to use them in.
Not a lot of info for PP circuits for these guys.
Plate voltage around 315v
Cathodyne phase inverter
Circuit similar to the "Tweedle Dee"
Any input would be great
Title: Re: 6M5 6EM5 Valves in Push Pull
Post by: uki on August 10, 2025, 10:06:12 pm
Check out the schematic on this post Timbo

https://el34world.com/Forum/index.php?topic=23039.msg252936#msg252936
Title: Re: 6M5 6EM5 Valves in Push Pull
Post by: tubeswell on August 11, 2025, 12:05:10 am

https://frank.pocnet.net/sheets/127/6/6EM5.pdf (https://frank.pocnet.net/sheets/127/6/6EM5.pdf)

Zout = 315/(10/315) = 9,922.5R


Should be able to get away with 8k plate-to-plate load at around 300Vish for PP
Title: Re: 6M5 6EM5 Valves in Push Pull
Post by: AlNewman on August 11, 2025, 12:06:59 am
https://frank.pocnet.net/sheets/084/6/6M5.pdf

https://frank.pocnet.net/sheets/049/6/6EM5.pdf

Kinda looks like a lower output EL84.

Similar to a 6K6, compared to a 6V6.

(Edit:  Tubeswell said basically the same thing as I was typing.)
Title: Re: 6M5 6EM5 Valves in Push Pull
Post by: TIMBO on August 11, 2025, 02:03:48 am
Thanks guys, 8K OT is doable
Title: Re: 6M5 6EM5 Valves in Push Pull
Post by: TIMBO on August 12, 2025, 06:03:17 pm
Thanks guys
(https://i.imgur.com/Nv87Jhi.jpg?2)
I was thinking of having a valve rectifier (EZ81) and series it with a resistor to run it at 12v
Just can find the calculator that will give me the resistor value
Title: Re: 6M5 6EM5 Valves in Push Pull
Post by: tubeswell on August 12, 2025, 06:34:12 pm
Easier way to get power supply sag is with a 10-20w 50R wire wound resistor in series with the FW Bridge and the reservoir cap.
Title: Re: 6M5 6EM5 Valves in Push Pull
Post by: TIMBO on August 12, 2025, 09:45:44 pm
cool
Title: Re: 6M5 6EM5 Valves in Push Pull
Post by: DummyLoad on August 12, 2025, 10:24:44 pm
Seems much like 6AQ5 rated for vertical sweep duty; 9 pin package allows higher B+/G2 V ratings. OT 8K-10K depending on B+/bias method. 


--Pete
Title: Re: 6M5 6EM5 Valves in Push Pull
Post by: TIMBO on August 13, 2025, 02:24:21 am
Hey DL,
40W 100V Line PA EI Core Audio Transformer - Altronics (https://www.altronics.com.au/p/m1130-40w-100v-line-pa-ei-core-transformer/)
These work well for a 8K primary



Title: Re: 6M5 6EM5 Valves in Push Pull
Post by: kagliostro on August 13, 2025, 02:32:47 am
Ciao TIMBO (you have a PM)

Explanation/Documentation on the .pdf file

(https://i.imgur.com/CN05UXP.jpeg)


----


http://diyaudioprojects.com/Technical/Ohms-Law/ (http://diyaudioprojects.com/Technical/Ohms-Law/)

https://sengpielaudio.com/calculator-ohm.htm (https://sengpielaudio.com/calculator-ohm.htm)


Franco


p.s.: read the PM
Title: Re: 6M5 6EM5 Valves in Push Pull
Post by: TIMBO on August 13, 2025, 05:25:09 am
MAN that is mint
Thank you
Title: Re: 6M5 6EM5 Valves in Push Pull
Post by: Merlin on August 13, 2025, 05:30:08 am
With back-to-back transformers you will find the B+ under load is much lower than 315V, maybe around 250V - they naturally sag a lot.
Also the heaters in your schem seem to be missing a connection.
Title: Re: 6M5 6EM5 Valves in Push Pull
Post by: dogburn on August 13, 2025, 11:16:41 am
Looks like a fun project - I'm interested in what it ends up sounding like. Looking at the circuit, I was thinking that if you don't really need two channels, you could mod it to use one 12AX7 triode for a bias-wiggle tremolo like the 6G2 circuit.
Title: Re: 6M5 6EM5 Valves in Push Pull
Post by: TIMBO on August 13, 2025, 04:37:52 pm
With back-to-back transformers you will find the B+ under load is much lower than 315V, maybe around 250V - they naturally sag a lot.
Also the heaters in your schem seem to be missing a connection.
Thanks mate
Just spotted it
The PT's have multiple secondary taps and can be adjusted to increase the overall voltage 
Title: Re: 6M5 6EM5 Valves in Push Pull
Post by: kagliostro on August 13, 2025, 10:55:24 pm
To me the secret Is to use over rated current Transformers, not to overvolt the input of the second Transformer

EDIT: Guessing a bit about the Transformers spec I'll use for T1 a 100VA unit and for T2 an 80VA unit

This will result in a 310V B+ wich will SAG only a bit (or so seems to be to me with my math)

Franco
Title: Re: 6M5 6EM5 Valves in Push Pull
Post by: TIMBO on September 08, 2025, 04:44:15 am
Hey guys, This one is gathering some interest, so I was able to get some shed time on the weekend.
(https://i.imgur.com/zp8Gqz4.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/K1WPoeW.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/6E16B4p.jpg)
Title: Re: 6M5 6EM5 Valves in Push Pull
Post by: Luciferschild on September 24, 2025, 10:16:24 pm
How’s the build coming along timbo? I’ve got a few 6EM5 pentodes I’d like to build a low power plexi or something similar with, keen to see how this project pans out for you!
Title: Re: 6M5 6EM5 Valves in Push Pull
Post by: TIMBO on September 25, 2025, 02:29:12 am
Hey mate, progress is slow, very busy at work atm
Title: Re: 6M5 6EM5 Valves in Push Pull
Post by: TIMBO on September 28, 2025, 03:32:58 am

Got some shed time...
(https://i.imgur.com/gci2v6Y.jpg)
Put the valves in to see where the heater voltage was sitting.
12.6v on the dot, Perfect
Circuit checked and the board is ready to graft in
Title: Re: 6M5 6EM5 Valves in Push Pull
Post by: TIMBO on October 07, 2025, 03:40:40 am

ey guys,
This one has fired up well :thumbup:
An adjustment to the power supply to bump up the HT at the rectifier was a juggle of plate voltage and plate dissipation.
Changing the connection between the Main power transformer(15V tap) and the HT transformer (now 12.5v)
has got the voltages in a good place
Maximin plate voltage 315v (256v) plate Diss 10w (8.1W)
Sounding good
NEXT
So what am I supposed to do with the 10k trimpot on the tail of the PI :scratch
I would assume it's to balance the signal on either side of the triode and done with a CRO
(https://i.imgur.com/Ra9yrJv.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/ioGkDKQ.jpg)
Apologies for the crap photo's, printer ran out of ink
Title: Re: 6M5 6EM5 Valves in Push Pull
Post by: TIMBO on October 17, 2025, 05:00:42 am
Cab made
(https://i.imgur.com/nmWShui.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/UUoMb0p.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/FHmqCpu.jpg)
Title: Re: 6M5 6EM5 Valves in Push Pull
Post by: kagliostro on October 17, 2025, 08:25:32 am
Ciao TIMBO

Very COOL CAB

Quote
So what am I supposed to do with the 10k trimpot on the tail of the PI :scratch
I would assume it's to balance the signal on either side of the triode and done with a CRO

Give a look to the attached .pdf, a guy at DIYItalia some years ago has build the Soma-84 (Kevin O'Connor The Ultimate Tone 5)

The purpose of the 1M pot at the cathode of the PI (called on the project Body) is to achieve a progressive transition between PP and SE output

Not that in your schematic that is the purpose of the trimmer but you can give a try with a little mod

(https://i.imgur.com/ve0BxPm.jpeg)

(https://i.imgur.com/KaOVOze.jpeg)

Franco
Title: Re: 6M5 6EM5 Valves in Push Pull
Post by: TIMBO on October 19, 2025, 04:41:44 am
Hey guys, Just when you think you are on the home stretch
(https://i.imgur.com/qcapeMk.jpg)
 :sad2: :l2:
Title: Re: 6M5 6EM5 Valves in Push Pull
Post by: kagliostro on October 19, 2025, 02:14:53 pm
Ciao

Franco
Title: Re: 6M5 6EM5 Valves in Push Pull
Post by: tubeswell on October 19, 2025, 05:33:16 pm
Hey guys, Just when you think you are on the home stretch
(https://i.imgur.com/qcapeMk.jpg)
 :sad2: :l2:


Lucky they make holes in speaker baskets nowadays…
Title: Re: 6M5 6EM5 Valves in Push Pull
Post by: TIMBO on October 20, 2025, 01:14:00 am
Hey guys, Just when you think you are on the home stretch
(https://i.imgur.com/qcapeMk.jpg)
 :sad2: :l2:


Lucky they make holes in speaker baskets nowadays…
The problem is the valve hits the basket
Title: Re: 6M5 6EM5 Valves in Push Pull
Post by: glass54 on October 20, 2025, 01:35:59 am
Hi Timbo,
V3 probably needs to do a 20mm Offset towards centre of chassis?? and a real pain to do  :cussing:
Silly question (and way toooo late) How come you didn't do the 4 sockets "in  line" along chassis.
You may have got away with it. :laugh:
Regards
Mirek
Title: Re: 6M5 6EM5 Valves in Push Pull
Post by: kagliostro on October 20, 2025, 03:54:46 am
Quote
... V3 probably needs to do a 20mm Offset towards centre of chassis?? and a real pain to do ...

Aluminium sheet on the top of the chassis (small if you don't care, large as the chassis top if you prefer) and new holes ?

(may be a little shield between Tube and Transformer too ?)

Franco
Title: Re: 6M5 6EM5 Valves in Push Pull
Post by: tubeswell on October 20, 2025, 04:22:30 am
Be easier to shunt the speaker 1/2” sideways methinks. Won’t line up with the baffle hole that well but who will know?


(Otherwise make a new baffle)


Might need to cut a notch in that bottom baffle rail…
Title: Re: 6M5 6EM5 Valves in Push Pull
Post by: TIMBO on October 20, 2025, 05:10:56 am
Hey guys, I liked all of those suggestions.
So I going the make a new cab.
 :icon_biggrin:
Title: Re: 6M5 6EM5 Valves in Push Pull
Post by: scstill on October 20, 2025, 11:46:11 am
I once mounted the speaker on an angle in an early champ build.
Surprisingly the 6" speaker was too large to be mounted flush
I further justified the unusual mount thinking the speaker would be pointed more to the player if the amp was on the floor. Either way it sounds good with the "bigger" speaker.
https://stillampd.com/emery-champ-01
Title: Re: 6M5 6EM5 Valves in Push Pull
Post by: kagliostro on October 20, 2025, 12:33:19 pm
Ciao scstill

https://stillampd.com/emery-champ-01 (https://stillampd.com/emery-champ-01)

VERY VERY COOL  :thumbsup:

Franco


p.s.: I like your advanced 3D approach to the project  :grin:
Title: Re: 6M5 6EM5 Valves in Push Pull
Post by: Mike-p on October 20, 2025, 01:50:52 pm
Angle grinder.