Hoffman Amplifiers Tube Amplifier Forum
Amp Stuff => Tube Amp Building - Tweaks - Repairs => Topic started by: SirElwood on January 13, 2009, 03:41:19 pm
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Hi!
It's time for a new project after successful little wing. My new project will be matchless clubman, because my friend want's one. Here is the schematic: http://www.schematicheaven.com/newamps/matchless_clubman.pdf and here is my draft layout with EF86 tube: http://www.mia-amps.com/images/clubmanlayout.png Tone controls might be wrong in my layout, I had a hard time to interpret that schematic. I'm going to fit this in hammond 1444-26 chassis and head cabinet.
If you find errors or if you have any comments, suggestion, ideas etc. please tell me.
Best regards
Elwood
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the tone controls look wrong to me, but i've never been able to translate them from a schematic to a layout anyway, so i could be way off.
be sure to post up how it turns out...i know a guy that wants one of these pretty badly, and it would be cool if i could build him one.
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Elwood, I just sent you an e-mail of my hand drawn 1996 matchless clubman 35 schematic. File was too big to post here. Study both schematics and note the changes for the ef86. Also the tone pots wiring is not complete and wired wrong. Study study study you will find it. Punky
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Hi punkykatt!
Thanks for the email, but it did not include any attachments. :( Can you send it to me again?
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Did you know there is a Matchvox NightClub guy amp schematic and layout in the SCH files?? That could probably bet edited very easily into what you want.
http://www.el34world.com/Forum/index.php?topic=597.0
;)
With respect, Tubenit
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Did you know there is a Matchvox NightClub guy amp schematic and layout in the SCH files?? That could probably bet edited very easily into what you want.
http://www.el34world.com/Forum/index.php?topic=597.0
;)
With respect, Tubenit
No I did not know that... Well now I know! :D
Thanks tubenit!
EDIT: I can't wait to compare that, and punkykatt's schem.
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I got punkykatt's schematic, and I made a "new" layout. Small changes here and there. Mostly on tone controls.
http://www.mia-amps.com/images/clubmanlayout.png
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Don't forget to ground that 47K 'tail' resistor.
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SirElwood,
How about putting your layout in the thread that has the SCH files for that amp when you're finished, please? ....... or simply in the schematic file and then reference the SCH thread. Either is fine.
Thanks, Tubenit
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I think this might turn into a one hell of a build... Today I finally got change to make turret boards an some other minor stuff. Looks good so far. I need to order some caps and resistors tho. Transformers are very big and heavy, chassis is steel... That thing will weight a metric ton! :D
I was thinking about that effects loop. I think that passive loop dosn't work (well, if at all) with stomp boxes. So I try to make and active tube loop from Kevin O'Connors "the ultimate tone 1" book. Page 7-11. At least it looks good, and it's fully featured.
EDIT:
How about putting your layout in the thread that has the SCH files for that amp when you're finished, please?
Sure!
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i know it's frowned upon to use SS stuff in a tube amp, but have you considered using an SS loop? this one http://www.ironsounds.com/ is supposed to be damn good, and it's true bypass with a 10dB pad if needed.
i may go to these instead of the tube buffered loop i've been using. i'm not really fond of what a loop does to the feel of the amp, anyway.
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I was actually thinking about weber copper cap (or similar solution) rectifier. I'm not against SS stuff at all (SS reverb might be nice thing to try). I'm not sure how tight fit it will be between power tranny and cabinet back plate, as I have no cabinet yet, but one heat source less feels like a good idea. However I already have pcb made for that KOC effects loop, and I was able to fit it in quite small size. Only 1,5"x4" plus tube. So far so good.
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Here's first pictures. It's a tight fit... Empty space "behind" preamp tubes is for FX-loop PCB.
(http://img297.imageshack.us/img297/8079/kuva008ji9.th.jpg) (http://img297.imageshack.us/my.php?image=kuva008ji9.jpg)
(http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/3951/kuva010iy6.th.jpg) (http://img89.imageshack.us/my.php?image=kuva010iy6.jpg)
(http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/4387/kuva012dl3.th.jpg) (http://img89.imageshack.us/my.php?image=kuva012dl3.jpg)
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That looks great! Nice job.
With respect, Tubenit
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Here we go.
Progress is kinda slow, this has been very demanding build to me. But finally I got first sounds out of this. I can't say anything about sound quality, but it promises good.
At the moment this amp suffers a bad hissssss (reminds me of a marshall jcm800 for some reason), but I think it's just a bad tube. Also PI wires are really microphonic, no idea why. I think bass and treble pots should be linear, and of course I have both logarithmic so almost nothing happens on first half or 2/3 of the pots rotation. But overall this is looking good. No explosions, electric shocks, or other injuries. :D
Oh yeah, I did shed light on front panel: http://www.tg-music.com/images/IMG_4429.JPG
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Few thoughts that might help.
If you look at the chieftain schematic, the bass pot is marked as reverse audio.
http://www.schematicheaven.com/newamps/matchless_chieftan.pdf (http://www.schematicheaven.com/newamps/matchless_chieftan.pdf)
Another thing that is different is the plate resistor (100k) of the first preamp tube. That 18k seems too small, at least if you compare it to other amps.
-ville
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If you look at the chieftain schematic, the bass pot is marked as reverse audio.
Makes sense to me. Hell, I don't have those. >:(
Another thing that is different is the plate resistor (100k) of the first preamp tube. That 18k seems too small, at least if you compare it to other amps.
This 18k should be correct. I believe that was an error, but it seems to be right after all... It's matchless, so weird it might be...
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Ok, here's the schematic and voltages. If you see something weird, please tell me.
I changed rectifier to EH-5U4GB and I did increase cathode resistors on power amp. It's still really hot! Sounds quote good, but needs alot more testing with good speaker cabinet. And ofcourse I need to fix those tone controls. I think I wired treble backwards, and I also need that rev.log. pot for bass.
That's all for now.
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sorry to dredge up an old thread, but how did this ef86 version of the Clubman circuit turn out? I was toying with building one, but I started thinking about using the 5879 in place of the (previously 6SH7) ef86. What the heck, since I'm going to try the Hoso56, thought it might be a good shot here as well. I was going to use iron in the bassman/JTM45 range. Did this schematic work for you?
TIA,
BarryW
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I have a Clubman 35 on the bench this week for repair and can snap some pics if it helps either of you out. I think the circuit layout of this amp is crucial.
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Absolutely, I'd really appreciate it. There are some floating around out there, but it would be great to get some good internal pictures. I'm really interested to see how close the existing/circulating schematic is to an original. I'm especially interested in the ef86 values and the cap following the volume pot.
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I took some pics and posted them on my "pics" page at the bottom. Lots of pics here so the page may take a few moments to load.
http://www.glacieramps.com/Glacier_Amplification/Pics/Pics.html
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Thank you! I appreciate the pix very much!
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Can someone please upload schematic and layout again?
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It's in Hoffman's schematic library.
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Yes, but only the old version with 6SH7, not the later one with EF86
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Is this what you are looking for ?
(http://i.imgur.com/Uureucm.jpg)
Franco
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yupp, many thanx! :-)
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So glad I found this.
I have someone that wants me to make for them.
Any suggestions? Transformers in particular?
He does not want an FX loop and doesn't want a reverb either. I just picked up about 5 of them and offered just to add it in for just the cost of parts but he didn't want it.
Thanks,
John
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The schematic has 426 volts on plates.
Using a 5U4GT (1.2 x VAC) 426/1.2 = 355 So, you'd look for a PT with around 355-0-355
Using a GZ34 (1.3 x VAC) 426/1.3 = 327 You'd look for a PT with around 325-0-325
Looking at the Tube Data Cheat Sheet, you'd probably want 150 ma capacity PT.
So, you could consider a Mojotone Super Reverb type PT since it has 362-0-362 with 150ma. And it has a 5 volt winding for a tube rectifier.
http://el34world.com/Transformers/files/MOJO761.pdf
The only other thing I'd definitely change is the crossline master volume. I think they sound awful. I'd use a LarMar PPIMV. I think you could use a 5879 in place of the EF86 if you wanted to.
With respect, Tubenit
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I noticed the original is using a GZ34 with 380v on the EL34 plates.
http://el34world.com/charts/Schematics/files/matchless/matchless_clubman.pdf (http://el34world.com/charts/Schematics/files/matchless/matchless_clubman.pdf)
380/1.3 = 292. So, IF you're wanting to go closer to the original then you'd look at 300-0-300 with 150ma PT.
schematic shows 430v to plates. 380v g2 after dropping thru 1k. g2 supply is 405v. use 650vct PT.
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B+ value incorrect on the clubman35 schematic. see circled. it is not likely that is 405V - more likely 425V.
--pete
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For transformers, check out TDS. http://www.yelp.com/biz/transformer-design-and-supply-san-jacinto
Their website's been down for a while, but they're still going. They take orders over the phone and Bill via PayPal. They made the iron for the original Sampson-era amps. I got one of their sets for my Ligtning/spitfire build.
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more likely 425V.
dug out my build notes and I show 433vdc at the B+ tap. I'm using a WPT100 FW, BIG filter caps. FWIW the OT is Wo22889 into 8ohms
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Many thanks to all.
The guy I was supposed to build this for called last night and cancelled.
Thankfully I haven't spent anything yet. I had almost all caps and pots already. I was actually going to order a bunch of stuff today. So now I'll just take a little more time to build it for myself instead.
I'll probably add a reverb to it. I picked up a bunch of PT, OT, reverb tanks and even a nice Vox AC30 2x12 cab that would fit this build nicely.
Thanks again,
John
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If I wanted to put a one tube reverb , where would I put it? A mixing resistor at the effects loop? I've built one like the drawing kagliostro posted. Works pretty good :icon_biggrin:
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You could probably take the signal after the volume pot and feed the return signal to the unused side of the phase inverter
...or if you have dwell pot then before the volume
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There is ALOT of information about 1-tube reverbs in the ARCHIVES here:
http://el34world.com/Forum/index.php?topic=7957.0
In the first post of the 1-tube reverb thread, look at the "5879 Blues Amp" example of how the reverb is inserted after the volume pot and prior to the send of the passive FX. That is how I would personally do it.
NOTE that there is a 150k (mixing) resistor after the volume pot in the 5879 Blues Amp & that the Clubman also has a 150k resistor after the volume pot. Because the 1-tube reverb uses a 1MA or 2.2MA reverb pot, the 150k mixing resistor seems to work fine in my experience.
With respect, Tubenit
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You could probably take the signal after the volume pot and feed the return signal to the unused side of the phase inverter
I've been intrigued by this idea ever since seeing the Chieftain schematic. Very simple idea and should work well. No lossy mixing resistor involved. I'd definitely try this. You can always change over to the lossy mixing resistor if not satisfied.
Look at the Chieftain schematic to see how easy this is...
http://el34world.com/charts/Schematics/files/matchless/matchless_chieftan.pdf
http://el34world.com/charts/Schematics/files/matchless/matchless_clubman.pdf
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Thank you all for the input on the reverb idea , built this one for my son. It's a really quiet amp up till now :l2: I could do a bigger reverb circuit but , knowledge and real estate is limited.
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I made Clubman based amp with single tube reverb and there is more then enough reverb. Did use mixing resistors though.
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Nice amp - true to style I would say!
I was long undecided whether to build a Clubman or Chieftain and in the end opted for the Chieftain (without reverb). That was the third amp I built and it is still one of my favorites - not many tweaks made on this amp. But there may still be a Clubman build in my future.
Have fun with the amp,
Stephan
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Thanks Stephan!
Every time dilemma when a man start to build a new amp, isn't it? Chieftain is very nice choice.
Did made few changes on this one as well. I placed six way rotary switch like on DC-30 channel 2 and cathode/fixed bias switch.
Together with reverb it turned out really versatile amp.
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Hey y'all,
First post here after many years of being a lurker. It seems that the first schematic that appears in the thread has the power supply nodes for the Phase Inverter and the 12AX7 gain stage wired in reverse, which may be causing headaches for some folks (including myself). They look like they are backwards:
This power supply is incorrect I believe
A - OT Centertap (Yes)
B - Power Tube Screens (Yes)
C - Phase Inverter Plates (No)
D - EF86 Gain Stage (Yes)
E - 12AX7 Gain Stage (No)
This power supply is correct after cross-referencing the other schematic I believe
A - OT Centertap (Yes)
B - Power Tube Screens (Yes)
C - 12AX7 Gain Stage (Yes)
D - EF86 Gain Stage (Yes)
E - Phase Inverter (Yes)
Hopefully that clears it up some! :icon_biggrin:
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I'm confused. The first schematic posted does not have an EF86. I've built a Clubman 6V6 so curious as to what you are pointing to?
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it's a 10yr old completed thread, confused, well just herbally happy? :icon_biggrin:
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I'm confused. The first schematic posted does not have an EF86. I've built a Clubman 6V6 so curious as to what you are pointing to?
The power supply nodes C and E are reversed on the first VIEWABLE (sorry) schematic posted with the provided voltage table. Perhaps the voltages on the table are right, but the letter C should be feeding the first gain stage's parallel'd 12AX7 triodes (off the 220k resistor) and the letter E should be feeding the phase inverter plates (off the 6.8K resistor).
The schematic with the nodes referenced with COLORS as opposed to the LETTERS is correct, I believe (I highly doubt the plates of the phase inverter are being feed 413v from that node with a dropping resistor that large). Perhaps I will write up a schematic in the coming days to clarify when I finish the project in front of me.
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Yes - I believe you are right. I referenced the schematic with the color codes when I built mine since I was using a 6SH7 in V2 position. Correcting the schematic for others, is a good mission. If you will do it in ExpressSCH the schematic I drew up may help cut and paste. Although the tube lineup is 6SL7>6SH7>6SL7>2x6V6.
And I think the schematic named Matchvox Niteclub Guy also has the correct nodes - it's also a 6v6 version but the preamp is all 9pin.
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Realize this is a older thread but , it has lots of good info.
I decided to use a little reverb pedal in the effects loop. I had punched the holes for the send and return jacks just hadn't put jacks in there. I like it so much I just ordered a couple more ef86 tubes from Ukraine.
Had people tell me that that effects loop was lame but , it works quite well with a little Sonicake reverb pedal.
I built the Matchless Clubman in 2017 for my son and he was liking my 5e5 Reverb a bit too much. :l2:
The little pedal makes it a little more lively but , we haven't tried anything else in the loop.