Hoffman Amplifiers Tube Amplifier Forum

Amp Stuff => Tube Amp Building - Tweaks - Repairs => Topic started by: tubesornothing on April 10, 2010, 07:18:44 pm

Title: Trem on a Concertina PI
Post by: tubesornothing on April 10, 2010, 07:18:44 pm
I have used, with great success, trem attached to the cathode of a LTPI.  Very smooth, with lots of variation.

On a new build I want to do the same, but using a Concertina/Split Load PI.  Will it work?


N.B.  the reason why I want to do it on the PI and not on the bias, is because bias trem will not work with power tube cathode attenuator.


thanks
ToN
Title: Re: Trem on a Concertina PI
Post by: FYL on April 11, 2010, 07:12:07 am
Could work with a self-biased cathodyne.

Title: Re: Trem on a Concertina PI
Post by: sluckey on April 11, 2010, 08:13:52 am
Quote
On a new build I want to do the same, but using a Concertina/Split Load PI.  Will it work?
Using that type phase splitter, you will surely have a voltage gain stage just prior to the PI. Why not modulate that gain stage instead? Look at this Vibro-Champ for ideas...

http://www.schematicheaven.com/fenderamps/champ_vibro_aa764_schem.pdf
Title: Re: Trem on a Concertina PI
Post by: tubesornothing on April 11, 2010, 08:46:46 am
FYL, it the "self biased cathodyne" a different circuit than the concertina/split load?

Sluckley, I'll give the vibrochamp circuit a shot.


thanks guys.
Title: Re: Trem on a Concertina PI
Post by: HotBluePlates on April 11, 2010, 10:21:34 am
"Cathodyne" is basically another name for the split load/concertina splitter.

The self-bias part refers to the way you usually see it employed: there is a low-value bias resistor between the cathode and the cathode load resistor, with the grid reference resistor running between the grid and the junction of the bias and load resistors. Look at a Fender Princeton for an example.

The fixed-bias version likely stands out most in your mind as the "Paul C mod". If you apply a fixed d.c. voltage to the grid instead of deriving bias from current flow through a biasing resistor, then it is fixed bias. Hiwatt also used a fixed-bias split-load/cathodyne, where a cathode follower was used as a low-impedance d.c. voltage source.
Title: Re: Trem on a Concertina PI
Post by: FYL on April 11, 2010, 10:37:18 am
Quote
it the "self biased cathodyne" a different circuit than the concertina/split load?

Concertina = cathodyne = split load, different names, same circuit. You can either use DC or AC coupling between the gain stage and the actual PI. If the cathodyne is AC coupled, trem voltage can be applied to Rk; if DC coupled, no easy way.
Title: Re: Trem on a Concertina PI
Post by: tubesornothing on April 11, 2010, 12:28:20 pm
Good, that was my understanding as well.

Title: Re: Trem on a Concertina PI
Post by: jjasilli on April 11, 2010, 01:03:52 pm
What is a "power power tube cathode attenuator"?  Do you mean VVR, or switchable cathode resistor/bypass cap choices?  If the latter, you could use a multi-pole switch to vary the range of trem intensity, simultaneously with cathode resistor switching. 
Title: Re: Trem on a Concertina PI
Post by: Fresh_Start on April 11, 2010, 01:23:19 pm
What is a "power power tube cathode attenuator"?  Do you mean VVR, or switchable cathode resistor/bypass cap choices?  If the latter, you could use a multi-pole switch to vary the range of trem intensity, simultaneously with cathode resistor switching. 

Guessing that he's referring to that neat trick Geezer & LooseChange were playing with a while back:  http://www.el34world.com/Forum/index.php?topic=4401.0  Post #48 has the "final" schematic and #37 explains how it works.

Cheers,

Chip
Title: Re: Trem on a Concertina PI
Post by: jojokeo on April 13, 2010, 12:50:11 am
What is a "power power tube cathode attenuator"?  Do you mean VVR, or switchable cathode resistor/bypass cap choices?  If the latter, you could use a multi-pole switch to vary the range of trem intensity, simultaneously with cathode resistor switching. 

Guessing that he's referring to that neat trick Geezer & LooseChange were playing with a while back:  http://www.el34world.com/Forum/index.php?topic=4401.0  Post #48 has the "final" schematic and #37 explains how it works.

Cheers,

Chip

What are the power ratings for those 330R & 100K resistors?
Title: Re: Trem on a Concertina PI
Post by: FYL on April 13, 2010, 05:45:36 am
Quote
What are the power ratings for those 330R & 100K resistors?

1/2 watt