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Hoffman Amps Forum image Author Topic: Suggest a good oscilloscope  (Read 11796 times)

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Offline hesamadman

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Suggest a good oscilloscope
« on: March 21, 2015, 08:12:40 am »
Im looking to buy a oscilloscope. Can anyone suggest a decent one?

Offline sluckey

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Re: Suggest a good oscilloscope
« Reply #1 on: March 21, 2015, 08:44:59 am »
I like Tektronix. I have an old 465B that I'm very fond of. 2215 is another good model. Both can be had for a very reasonable price on eBay.
A schematic, layout, and hi-rez pics are very useful for troubleshooting your amp. Don't wait to be asked. JUST DO IT!

Offline shooter

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Re: Suggest a good oscilloscope
« Reply #2 on: March 21, 2015, 01:14:31 pm »
I 2nd the Tektronix, been using them since the early 80's.  I retired my 465, I use a TDS 1012b, should be old enough now to be almost reasonable priced. 
Went Class C for efficiency

Offline MakerDP

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Re: Suggest a good oscilloscope
« Reply #3 on: March 21, 2015, 02:23:41 pm »
The Rigol DS1052E or the DS1102E are the ones that are selling like hotcakes right now. Lots of stories of old-timer engineers used to their expensive heavy ones, trying these out and switching to them for good...

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_1?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=oscilloscope+rigol&rh=i%3Aaps%2Ck%3Aoscilloscope+rigol

They are very well liked in other tube-amp circles as well.

Offline eleventeen

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Re: Suggest a good oscilloscope
« Reply #4 on: March 21, 2015, 02:57:21 pm »
The classic top name in scopes is Tektronix. But there are easily a dozen other brands that would work just fine, if they work. There are used ones for sale all over the place for very reasonable. Look on Craigslist.


Couple of thoughts:


1: Scopes are rated for the most part on a: bandwidth and b: no of channels. For our purposes you need only the most primitive scope imaginable. Old tube scopes usually topped out at a few MHz or even 500KHz. That would be perfectly adequate BUT I suggest you not buy such a thing. Do not buy any scope with banana plug input terminals! Argggh! Do not buy any scope with PL-259 input connector. (Huge, 5/8" in diam threaded connector. It's an indicator of excess age and probes would be hard to get)


2: If you are not going to buy a tube-based scope, and please don't, then ANY scope imaginable has at least 15 MHz bandwidth, way way more than we need. That's fine.


3: It is pretty nice to have two channels, and, again, by the time you are buying a scope of reasonable vintage and not a 1953 DuMont tube-powered scope, it's very likely you'll have 2 channels. This is not a great big expensive "option". Aka "dual trace". Yes, get 2-channels (or more)


4: While it is nice to have a Tek 2215 or 2230 or 2236 scope, it is definitely possible that such a scope is old enough so that if it breaks, it would cost you $800 to fix it. Be careful when examining such a scope if you are considering one. If it looks like it was used by a field service tech and run through airport luggage 80 times, pass.


5: The scope is not a scope unless you have probes. New probes can be had for pretty cheap, like under $15 each. Those would be lowish quality probes but "quality" here means bandwidth and we need almost no bandwidth to do audio. What IS nice about new probes is that they have all the clippy goodies that hook on to the tip. Used genuine Tektronix probes can be perfectly fine but they are often missing the clip-on attachments which make life much easier. I will go ahead and say that it is a definite requirement to have the spring-loaded probe tips that can clip on and stay clipped on to wires and terminals, etc; Just having a point at the end of your probe is quite the PITA. And, because that bare end has a ground ring around it which would be VERY EASY to short something out on (on tube-sized electronic stuff)  you should NOT USE the naked spike probe! You ALWAYS clip your probe on to something, then go to the scope and adjust settings. So really, the probe has to be hands-free.  It just does.


6: And so therefore, it is very desirable to find a used scope with PROBES INCLUDED and to be sure that the included probes are complete; with the spring-loaded grabbies on the end. *ANY* brand that is 2-channel and has the probes included would be just fine. You should be able to find a Hitachi, Leader, Kenwood, Kikusui, or any of several other brands that will work fine. PHILIPS made scopes back then, avoid them. Poor trace brightness and poor triggering.


7: You should be able to get such a scope for under $150. If not, wait a week. I live in an urban area, a search for "oscilloscope" on CL never yields less than 50 choices.


« Last Edit: March 21, 2015, 03:08:10 pm by eleventeen »

Offline G._Hoffman

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Re: Suggest a good oscilloscope
« Reply #5 on: March 21, 2015, 03:52:00 pm »
The Rigol DS1052E or the DS1102E are the ones that are selling like hotcakes right now. Lots of stories of old-timer engineers used to their expensive heavy ones, trying these out and switching to them for good...

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_1?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=oscilloscope+rigol&rh=i%3Aaps%2Ck%3Aoscilloscope+rigol

They are very well liked in other tube-amp circles as well.

The 1052/1102 are getting a bit dated, at this point - the DS1054Z is a newer one in the sub-$500 price range, has four channels, and most importantly has an intensity graded display so it acts more like an analog scope (please note the "more like").  They have apparently had some problems with some frequency dependent sync issues, but it sounds like they have been able to fix it with software.


Gabriel
« Last Edit: June 21, 2015, 03:37:47 am by G._Hoffman »

Offline PRR

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Re: Suggest a good oscilloscope
« Reply #6 on: March 21, 2015, 10:04:59 pm »
For simple audio, any 'scope that WORKS is better than any fancy-brand or super-option 'scope that has problems.

The last few jobs I have done, my pre-1953 DuMont would have been fine. Also the very-basic 'scopes don't do probes, you run wires to binding posts.

There is much to be said for a SIMPLE 'scope when you are just starting to learn one.

There is much convenience in a hand-held on an already crowded workbench, even if the teeny option buttons drive you mad.

That said, at today's prices, something new from China may be your best course.

Offline MakerDP

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Re: Suggest a good oscilloscope
« Reply #7 on: March 21, 2015, 11:19:15 pm »

The 1052/1102 are getting a bit dated, at this point - the DS1054Z is a newer one in the sub-$500 price range, has four channels, and most importantly has an intensity graded display so it acts more like an analog scope (please not the "more like").  They have apparently had some problems with some frequency dependent sync issues, but it sounds like they have been able to fix it with software.


Gabriel

I haven't seen that one. I'll have to look into it. Thanks!

Offline hesamadman

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Re: Suggest a good oscilloscope
« Reply #8 on: March 25, 2015, 07:46:11 am »
I like Tektronix. I have an old 465B that I'm very fond of. 2215 is another good model. Both can be had for a very reasonable price on eBay.


I forgot I posted this topic. Ha


Sluckey I looked into the one you suggested. It seems very affordable. This one on ebay is only $175. I just need to understand and learn how to use these now ha.


http://www.ebay.com/itm/Tektronix-465-Oscilloscope-with-Manual-/331505912935?_trksid=p2054897.l4275

Offline sluckey

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Re: Suggest a good oscilloscope
« Reply #9 on: March 25, 2015, 08:24:24 am »
Quote
This one on ebay is only $175.
That's about what I paid for mine a few years back.

I'd be leery of that one though. The guy clearly doesn't understand how to use the scope. He is trying to display the calibrator test square wave on channel one, but channel one input is set to ground so there's nothing to see. The scope may be working, but he has not demonstrated that. I'd pass unless he can show some stable waveforms.

Ideally, this is what I'd like to see when shopping eBay for a Dual trace scope such as the 465. Show me two signals that will indicate that both vertical inputs are working. I don't care if it's the same signal fed into both channels. I just want the displayed signals to be sharp (focused) and adequate intensity. And the signals should be stable, not jittery. Stable is a hard call on a still photo, but a jittery signal could simply appear out of focus, depending on the speed of the camera lens.

If I can see two stable, bright and focused waveforms, I'll take a gamble that the scope is probably mostly working.


A schematic, layout, and hi-rez pics are very useful for troubleshooting your amp. Don't wait to be asked. JUST DO IT!

Offline eleventeen

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Re: Suggest a good oscilloscope
« Reply #10 on: March 25, 2015, 09:44:59 am »
I'd be leery of that one as well. If I owned that scope, I would be confident in it, because I would have probably owned it for at least 10 years, maybe almost 20 years, and there would be 10-year old dust underneath it on my bench. But that is a mid-late 70's scope, it's 40 years old, sold without probes, $220 delivered cost to you. Final cost = $250 with the probes you'd have to buy. Ehhh.


By the way....if you are going to buy a compact horizontally-oriented scope, see if you can get the cover that protects the face for transport.



What's the nearest metro area you are near? Specify, I will find you a craigslist scope near you that you might do better on.







Offline Ken Moon

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Re: Suggest a good oscilloscope
« Reply #11 on: June 11, 2015, 09:14:49 am »
I've had a couple of BK Precision analog scopes I paid less than $50 for on eBay that  have served me well for many years.

As mentioned before, make sure it comes with a high-voltage probe or two, as these can cost more than the scope,

Offline shooter

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Re: Suggest a good oscilloscope
« Reply #12 on: June 11, 2015, 11:59:43 am »
Quote
make sure it comes with a high-voltage probe

If it doesn't you can make a *homebrew* version, google it, I made one stacking a bunch of R's and a couple caps stuffed inside a syringe I got from work, complete with needle for the tip :icon_biggrin:
Went Class C for efficiency

Offline Ed_Chambley

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Re: Suggest a good oscilloscope
« Reply #13 on: June 11, 2015, 02:39:56 pm »
I have a friend buy one of these (Siglent SDS1102CML) and really likes it.  New $379.00.  I have an old  Tektronix that was given to me so I am set.  Maybe some of you guys who have more knowledge can tell us what limitations this thing has.  Here is a series of video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A9AOEa2k0U

Offline eleventeen

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Re: Suggest a good oscilloscope
« Reply #14 on: June 11, 2015, 02:58:50 pm »
My reco: Before you buy a brand new one (which is obviously going to be lots "better"...in ways you may never realize or use....Try to find something like this on Craigslist, unless you are pretty convinced you are going to be using it a lot. I would prefer not to have it shipped, just because you can go see if it works (and ask the guy if he has any other stuff lying around for sale!) and don't have to worry if he knows how to pack it.


Yes, it is an unknown brand. Perform the calculus of: 10 years old versus 25 years old B&K versus 30 year old Tektronix....has the probes, the manuals. Clean. Don't like it? Put it back on Craigslist for $45. Total cost: $20.




Offline eleventeen

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Re: Suggest a good oscilloscope
« Reply #15 on: June 17, 2015, 12:27:09 am »
Here's another very good scope for cheap. 50 MHz, 2 channel. With 2 probes. Excellent.




 


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