Tune-o-matic Bridge Saddle Intonation position Question???(Complete Thanks!)

[Platefire]

OK, a tune o matic bridge usually comes with the three saddles for the smaller strings with angled wedge string groove forward and for the three larger strings the wedge is turned backwards. On the guitar I'm working on the g string saddle is all the way back and is still just a little sharp in the 12th fret. If I could reverse that saddle like the larger strings, I think that would do it.

In order to do that you would have to be able to remove that screw, reverse the saddle and reinstall the screw. I see there is also a small wire like retainer holding all the adjustment screws in place. I've tampered with it a bit trying to see how to make the change but it appears the screw is permanently affixed in there and I've been kind of careful not wanting to tare it up.

There has got to be a way to successfully do this--if you've had experiance with this, please let me know the secret. Thanks, Platefire

[jjasilli]

1.  Remove the wire retainer.  It's springy, and the ends pull-out of retainer holes.   (NOTE:  It's easy to misplace the spring; it can be replicated with a guitar string, but that's a PIA)
2.  Each adjustment screw swings-out out at its head, straight up and away from the guitar body; the screw's far end tapers to a pin which which just manages to grab into a hole on the other side of the bridge.  If a saddle is tight up against the bridge, then it may interfere with removal; so screw the saddle toward the center first.

[Platefire]

jjasilli

Thanks! So if I'm understanding you right the wire retainer ends fit in two small holes at each end of the bridge and it can be pulled out of its hole and moved out of the way to dis-lodge(upward) the adjustment screws/saddles. I may have to get my magnifing glass out on this one. Platefire

[G._Hoffman]

There are two types (at least, Gibson makes two types, some other manufacturers have other designs).  Jjasilli is talking about ABR-1 bridges, which use one "spring" that catches all the screws.  Nashville bridges are caught by the metal of the bridge on both ends, and have individual springs in the cavity for each saddle.  Jjasilli is correct for ABR-1 bridges.  For Nashville bridges, you just back the saddle screw out until it pops.  Once it is released from the saddle itself, it may or may not just slide out, but if not you just keep backing it out - the threads will catch against the spring, and it will come out.  The real pain with the Nashville bridges, though, is getting them back in.

With non-Gibson bridges, you'll just have to figure out how it works, but it kind of sounds like you are talking about an ABR-1.


Oh, and yes, turning a saddle around is perfectly normal.  They mostly ship them out in the most common setup, but if you are using a heavier set of strings the G string will very likely need to be turned around.  Also, if the radius of the bridge isn't exactly the same as the fingerboard, you can adjust the depth of the slots with nut slotting files.


Gabriel

[Platefire]

It's on an Epiphone LP Special. Cheap guitar but with tunomatic bridge and stop bar. Platefire

[bigdaddy]

Spray it with WD40 and clean it up with a tooth brush first. Then remove the wire, yes it can be made with a guitar string if you lose it.

But unless the saddle is cut dead center your G string will be off. The G string on a lot of guitars are never intonated correctly unless you have a lot of travel for some reason, especially on Gibsons.

Check something that used to happen to Les Pauls a lot. the height adjustment screws would bend forward. After I changed the posts I use to add another set of adjustment wheels to those guitars so they do not bend. It would provide more stability.

I'm not familiar with the less expensive Epiphone models, I'm old school and was used to working on 50s through 70s Gibsons. Later the same models reissued and did not fix a lot of Epiphones other then replace their electronics which are pretty bad or were at the time. So I am not as familiar with their hardware, I did own some of those Korina Epi Vs and Explorers when they first came out and replaced the hardware with American sized traditional Gibson type stuff. Added some Dunlop frets and Duncans and they sounded pretty good.

See if the posts are bent first.

[G._Hoffman]

Stock Epiphone TOM's are mostly closer to the Nashville style bridges, so you should just be able to back the screw out.  There is an odd triangular spring that holds them in place, at least on the Gibson bridges, and I would assume also on the Epiphone bridges - watch out for that.

Can you get a good close up picture of it?  It would help to figure out which bridge it is.


Gabriel

[Platefire]

The gutiar is at another location where I've been playing at. I will bring it home after this weekend and I can take a picture then show it then. I think it's just like Greg said, you remove the wire out of it's slot, pull it out of the way and the screw/saddle will pop out the top of bridge with a little gental persuasion. That's the way it appears to me but I would rather take a picture and let you look--before I do it just to be sure. I'm using a .016 G and have the saddle backed up as far as it will go and it almost plays in tune but not quite. Thanks! Platefire

[Platefire]

Well It's a done deal. Just like you said it would be---I removed the wire retainer out of its slot on the right side with my pocket knife and kind of pushed it out of the way leaving the left side of retainer intact. Backed the saddle off to about mid way and pried it out also with my pocket knife. The rest was easy--just reversed the saddle and put it all back together. Got the G making a perfect octive in the 12th fret now 

Thanks you very much. I could have dove right into it without any experiance or knowledge and easily screwed something up. As is, it's all back together correctly in great shape. Here's some pixs, not to clear but if you look close you can see the finished results. Platefire

[jjasilli]

 
More food for thought.  There are 2 ways to mount the strings on the LP tailpiece:

1.  Straight thru, like your picture.  This puts more tension on the strings, possibly to the point of collapsing the middle of the ABR bridge.  See, Dan Erlewine.  It makes for a sharper, brighter attack with less sustain. 

2.  "Backwards" with the ball end of the string facing the Bridge; then the string is wrapped, back up, & around the top of the tailpiece. 

Not stating a preference here.

[G._Hoffman]

The tension of the bridge from the tail piece is adjustable.  Either way you string it, you want the E strings to just miss hitting the back edge of the bridge. 


Gabriel

[Platefire]

On the two tune o matic bridges I checked the strings are all clearing except the 1st Little E. I guess you can raise the stop bar to get clearance---never tried to adjust the stop bar.

Also I've never noticed a player stringing through the stop bar from front to back and then bringing the strings over the top of the stop bar to the bridge. That's all new to me? Platefire

[jjasilli]

More food for thought from Dan Erlewine:  he's into total contact for best tone, and believes the tailpeice should be in contact with the body.  If that seems to set the tailpiece too low, you can put washers or bone under the tailpiece. 

[Platefire]

I know one thing, I'm really beginning more than ever to appreciate the feel of a tune o matic bridge coupled with a tilt back headstock. Makes for some great action. Platefire 

[hewo]

I can't disengage that wire retainer.
It seems to fit perfectly into its two holes with no play to lift out one side engaged in its hole.
As you attempt to lift one side out of its hole, big restraint force felt opposing your lifting one side retainer wire out of its hole.
Need clarification, exact problem on 16 g string intonation

[eleventeen]

One more fine point, I would suggest loosening the strings should you wish to move the stop bar up/down, in other words, do not adjust height under full string tension. It often leads to chewing up the adj slot for the bolts. And make sure you use a good quality and good condition screwdriver, not a paint-can opener. You don't have loosen the strings to dead limp floppy loose, but take a load of tension off.

[Fresh_Start]

On the two tune o matic bridges I checked the strings are all clearing except the 1st Little E. I guess you can raise the stop bar to get clearance---never tried to adjust the stop bar.

Also I've never noticed a player stringing through the stop bar from front to back and then bringing the strings over the top of the stop bar to the bridge. That's all new to me? Platefire

I have a Heritage 535. When the strings are normal in the tailpiece, the tailpiece is really high off the guitar if I want the strings to clear the back of the bridge. To the point where the screws are wobbly without tension on them. Reverse wrapping the tailpiece lets me set it almost flat on the body with the E strings just clearing the back edge of the bridge. That change improved the sustain and eliminated some buzzing that was really irritating.

Note: IMHO this only happens because the tailpiece was installed too close to the bridge.

Also, I thread the strings through old string rings (? - little cylinders captured on the end of a string) before fishing them backwards though the tailpiece. Makes it much easier to get old strings out and doesn't chew up the opening of the hole through the tailpiece.

Cheers,
Chip