Welcome To the Hoffman Amplifiers Forum

September 06, 2025, 04:43:21 pm
guest image
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
-User Name
-Password



Hoffman Amps Forum image Author Topic: are old/vintage power tools better than new?  (Read 14481 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline PRNDL

  • Level 2
  • **
  • Posts: 455
  • Tube or not Tube, that is the question
Hoffman Amps Forum image
are old/vintage power tools better than new?
« on: June 10, 2009, 11:53:02 am »
Every now and then I see old or vintage power tools for sale - usually old craftsman stuff, such as drills, jig saws and sanders.

Are these desirable, when compared with new tools?

For instance, I have a very old Craftsman table saw that's cast iron with wings. It's really nice (once I set the blade angle correctly, which wasn't easy). I think it's much better than most new tables, although it could use a better fence.

It's the smaller power tools that I wonder about.

In specific, I have an inexpensive new jig saw from Ace that doesn't seem to cut angles well. My first thought is to get a better quality one, but I saw an old Craftsman and wondered if they would be well built and great to use, like the table saw.

Thanks!!
Check out my new tweed Retro 6V6 combo
http://www.naturdoctor.com/Chapters/Amps/RetroV.html
Paper-in-oil caps are cool!

Offline tubesornothing

  • SMG
  • Level 4
  • *****
  • Posts: 2664
  • A strong spark ought to bear calamities...
Hoffman Amps Forum image
Re: are old/vintage power tools better than new?
« Reply #1 on: June 10, 2009, 12:12:54 pm »
GOOD new tools are better.  More power, lighter, battery operated, better control, better features.  I love my Bosch jigsaw.  But I had to pay the bux.

Offline PRR

  • Level 5
  • *******
  • Posts: 17082
  • Maine USA
Hoffman Amps Forum image
Re: are old/vintage power tools better than new?
« Reply #2 on: June 10, 2009, 04:29:17 pm »
Good old tools are excellent.

In every era, most of the market is crap.

If something is good, and not over-priced, it was probably a design accident.

You want old stories:

Every year I saw a ton of curb-wood into stove-wood. This is too big for the table saw, but awful small for a gas chainsaw.

I've gone through many of the WEN and WEN-clone electric chainsaws. They all suck. Underpowered, cheezemetal inserts in soft plastic, and they never cut straight.

I got a WALL. They were pioneers in chainsaws, their 2-man gas saw revolutionized big timber. They later made an electric, with a washing machine engine, bevel gearing, and sawchain which looked more like classic cross-cut teeth on a chain than the Oregon-patent sawchain seen everywhere today. What a beast. It ran perfectly after all these decades, had power, cut straight, but the cutting was lame even after some experiments with tooth angle and depth. Modern sawchain IS better. While it didn't cut any faster than a WEN, it was HEAVY enough to cut without help, so I rigged an arm. Set it on a large log, stand back, plug it in, watch it stroll through the log.

Then I got a late 1970s Craftsman lectric chainsaw. It is better than Sears ever intended. Clean and lube, new standard chain (the original "self-sharpening" chain was bogus and now illegal, but it is standard 72LP links), it walks through wood about as good as you can expect for a fist-size electric motor. Cuts pretty straight. Reasonable weight. E-Z to service. Takes a standard #10 bar, used on most small gas saws, so I've mounted 18" and even 20" bars... you can't let the saw dig-in to that much log, but you can feather it through to break-up large logs into stuff it can handle well. I went on eBay and bought all I could find. Sears even stocks a few key parts; I got a couple new cogs.

It is still a toy tool. It just happens to be a better toy than Sears probably intended. Their all-new for the 1980s replacement is another WEN-like cheese-toy.

And yet, I keep looking at the Makita UC4030A or Milwaukee 6215 chainsaws. These seems to be the only ones on the market which are not the old WEN in new clothes, which are true professional Power Tools instead of toys.

I have two very old circular saws. The one my FIL stole from somewhere is a very fine machine. The other is a genuine early SKILL, musta cost a bunch new, is such a lame pain that I threw it in the scrap-metal.

> inexpensive new jig saw from Ace

The buyers at ACE, like most major chains, are not wood-wizards. Their job is to sell, not saw. They can easily be swayed by a pretty box and a generous profit margin. Occasionally something good slips past them: I got a low-price cordless drill at ACE which can never replace my DeWalt, but handily does many-many small jobs and the battery holds its charge well after the DeWalt and Makita batt-packs crapped out fatally.

The Bosch jigsaw is an excellent machine, but I could not justify the price for what I am worth.
« Last Edit: June 10, 2009, 05:18:20 pm by PRR »

Offline G._Hoffman

  • Level 3
  • ***
  • Posts: 1417
  • I love tube amps
Hoffman Amps Forum image
Re: are old/vintage power tools better than new?
« Reply #3 on: June 10, 2009, 05:29:31 pm »
It really depends on the particular tool.  The real thing with old stationary power tools is you can frequently get one that was in a higher end part of the market when it came out than what you will find with a new one.  For the cost of a new Unisaw, you can probably find a really nice old industrial 14" table saw.  But the old one will need a lot of work to get it up and running, and it will need a new fence.  Similar concerns exist with old drill presses, band saws, etc.

As for hand power tools, the good old ones may have been better when new, but they are probably worn out by now.  The universal motors used in most hand tools are far from being robust, and they definitely are not designed to last forever.  Not to mention loud.  We've got a pile of used up routers from the `70's that barely even rotate anymore, but the induction motor in our shaper from the same period is still running perfectly.  I think we may have had to replace the starter cap on it once.  And the shaper has seen a LOT more use than any of those routers, which were all set up as dedicated single purpose routers for neck dovetail joints and the like.  Then again, you may find a really nice old Porter Cable router that just needs new brushes to work perfectly - but I doubt it.

So as I said, it depends on what you are after, how much time you want to put in, and how much you want to spend.  But for hand held power tools, it's probably best to stick to new stuff - well, maybe not if you are looking for a nice worm drive circular saw, but other than that...



Gabriel

Offline Frankenamp

  • Level 3
  • ***
  • Posts: 608
  • What does this button do?
Hoffman Amps Forum image
Re: are old/vintage power tools better than new?
« Reply #4 on: June 11, 2009, 12:07:41 am »
OK, I'm gonna kinda agree and disagree with Gabe & PRR:

In My Experience, there are two things to look at when shoppin' for (used) tools- Quality and Condition. A top of the line Millers Falls or Milwaukee tool that has seen industrial use isn't going to be in anywhere near the condition of a Craftsman or (better grade) Skil tool that has spent most of it's life in some old fart putterer's tool box. Pictures tell a fairly good story of the tool's life (so if it looks pretty beat on the outside, it's gonna be the same on the inside).  

About new tools- if it comes from China the odds are about 93.sumpthin that it's crap. Including and especially hammers. Best bets are 'Murcan German and Japanese, Taiwan and Hong Kong are also pretty decent. Thanks to Home Depot and Lowes, even the name brand tools done went to hell in a handbasket. Case In Point: Dewalt. Used to be as good as Milwaukee, Porter Cable, and Delta (when it was Rockwell). Dewalt is the new Black & Decker (of the 80's- not the 60's B&D that made decent stuff) Makita is one of the few brands that has maintained it's quality.  Be Careful.

Something to think about- Most major brands have service (repair) centers and you can find some pretty decent deals there. Fer example- I found a used Skil 6 1/2" worm-drive saw at a thrift shop, it had a twist lok plug and since they couldn't test it, it was $10. New 3 prong plug outta my stash and it was off an running. I used the h.e. double-toothpicks outta that saw untill I plugged it into a circuit that was a little funny. (The genius electrician must have never seen a three phase panel before, because he ran several circuits off the 'stinger' leg [208 VAC].) I say funny because the $5 shoplites started smoking after a week of use (what the hey, it was five bucks whaddaya expect?) I got about about 3/4 through a 4X8 plywood sheet and what was left of the wormdrive's motor's brushes exited the back of the saw like a roman candle! (sh*t!) Whip out my hand saw and finish the cut... vacuum up the sawdust with the ancient Hoover which ran better than I'd seen seen yet for five minutes until the motor exploded! Finally I wised up and stuck a meter in the offending recepticle- 196 VAC WTF? No wonder my saw was singing soprano! (words were shared with the electrician who'd never seen such a thing before and he was informed that he was payin' fer repairs) Across the stree from the job was (literally) a Skill/Bosch repair center. That's when I found out that Skill had a policy of fixing their worm-drive saws for no more than 99 bux no matter what. So, my ten dollar saw was like new (internally) until it got mistakenly packed in a moving van... So, if you are looking for a circular saw get a Skil worm drive model.

About Craigslist- sometimes you gotta move fast- Once I was lookin' for a table saw and saw a Homecraft* (Rockwell's consumer brand) rarely used and with jigs and blades pedestal saw for $50 (first come...) First call was "Hey I'm comin'!" Several calls later the wife shows up grumblin' with the car... and halfway across the Dumbartin Bridge I call to verify the address and got told that "it's gone". Bastard.   I later found a nearly new late 70's/early 80's vintage (aluminum top) Craftsman contractor style saw with old blade, new blade, dado blade, blade guard, extra cutoff switch,bag option, wheels... in the corner of someone's garage for $80. A row of suspicious looking tooth indentations across the tang of the miter gauge told the story: newbie gets the DIY bug, goes to sears & gets a nice saw, (salesman sells all the add-ons he could) dosen't understand how to use it properly, and gets the smeg scared out of him after a few cuts when he is careless with the miter guage. So, it spends the next couple decades unused in a corner of said garage. Thing that shocked me most about that saw was that ugly grey lump of sheetmetal fence clamped to a couple pieces of 1" angle iron can be goosed into about .0050" of true over about 36" if you are the least bit patient... for wood fifty thou is pretty good.

*think Unisaw lite.

The stuff that was 20-40 (cheap crap) in 1976 is still selling for 20-40 now; the stuff that sold for 80-100 is now going for 25-50. The trick is knowing what was what.

About that Bosch jig saw: I got one at the Repair Center for about $100 reconditioned (anniversary edition) whoop-te-doo. Runs smooth as silk. It will last several more decades. It replaced a Skil jig saw that was the next to best (about $80 in the '90's) consumer model. was used a handfull of times and left in the machine shop for someone to steal because it vibrated worse than those things that the old time barbers used to give shoulder massages after your haircut. And the blade refused to stay vertical no matter how much you begged it to.
This problem calls for a bigger hammer!

Offline Frankenamp

  • Level 3
  • ***
  • Posts: 608
  • What does this button do?
Hoffman Amps Forum image
Re: are old/vintage power tools better than new?
« Reply #5 on: June 11, 2009, 12:20:42 am »
  Then again, you may find a really nice old Porter Cable router that just needs new brushes to work perfectly - but I doubt it.
Gabriel

Dunno about you, but I hate Norm Abram's (new Yankee Workshop) guts!

(Well, maybe not hate, just really-really jellus'.)

Two reasons: 1, the bloke has every tool Porter Cable ever made. 2, There is not a single piece of sawdust out of place.

Nevertheless, thats the kind of shop I want when I win the lotto.
This problem calls for a bigger hammer!

Offline mackie2

  • Level 2
  • **
  • Posts: 166
  • "Follow The Red Wire"
Hoffman Amps Forum image
Re: are old/vintage power tools better than new?
« Reply #6 on: June 11, 2009, 01:51:22 pm »
Frankenamp--

Win the lottery--you can hire all the workers you need--have one big warehouse shop covering a city block--CNC, Laser and Plasma machines.

I've just found a 50's Techtool Drill Press  made in New England-- It's a Bench  Drill Press, built like a tank.  I cleaned her up and oiled the motor. Perfect  addition to my old shop.   Bought the Toolteck for $20 American.

Mackie2
1/2 a Valve is better than no Valve at all.

Offline PRNDL

  • Level 2
  • **
  • Posts: 455
  • Tube or not Tube, that is the question
Hoffman Amps Forum image
Re: are old/vintage power tools better than new?
« Reply #7 on: June 12, 2009, 10:41:03 am »
I'm glad I asked, because sometimes I see great old tools for fantastic prices.

OTOH, I did buy some old tools that turned out to be junk, although usually it comes with some pretty cool stuff. For instance:

An old 1/8 HP Craftsman Router ... yes, no enough power for anything but cardboard ... but, it came with a nice set of router bits in a nifty orange plastic box that I kept. I dropped it off at the donation center 2 days ago.

A really old drill, which was junk, but I kept the nice red box and bits that it came with.

I really like my old Craftsman table saw, but dream of getting an old Delta. The fence on the Craftsman leaves much to desire.

Thanks again!

I thought this would be a great topic for those getting into amp building.
Check out my new tweed Retro 6V6 combo
http://www.naturdoctor.com/Chapters/Amps/RetroV.html
Paper-in-oil caps are cool!

Offline G._Hoffman

  • Level 3
  • ***
  • Posts: 1417
  • I love tube amps
Hoffman Amps Forum image
Re: are old/vintage power tools better than new?
« Reply #8 on: June 12, 2009, 02:58:49 pm »
  Then again, you may find a really nice old Porter Cable router that just needs new brushes to work perfectly - but I doubt it.
Gabriel

Dunno about you, but I hate Norm Abram's (new Yankee Workshop) guts!

(Well, maybe not hate, just really-really jellus'.)

Two reasons: 1, the bloke has every tool Porter Cable ever made. 2, There is not a single piece of sawdust out of place.

Nevertheless, thats the kind of shop I want when I win the lotto.


Note to self - never invite Frankenamp to shop.


Not that we don't have saw dust everywhere - we're a working shop, after all - but we certainly have just about every tool you could want.  Well, except for the CNC - I haven't been able to get around to making one of those yet.


Gabriel

Offline GuitarPilot65

  • Level 2
  • **
  • Posts: 141
  • Music by Lee/Lifeson; Lyrics by Peart
Hoffman Amps Forum image
Re: are old/vintage power tools better than new?
« Reply #9 on: June 28, 2009, 06:01:11 pm »
I've gotten some decent stuff from Harbor Freight and Homier.  Still can't go wrong with Craftsman.  Parts Express has always been good for electronics gear.  Mouser's catalog is extremely vast as well.
1993 Brown Fender '63 Vibroverb RI (6G16)
1994 Blonde Fender '65 Deluxe Reverb RI (AB763, modified [by me])

Offline G._Hoffman

  • Level 3
  • ***
  • Posts: 1417
  • I love tube amps
Hoffman Amps Forum image
Re: are old/vintage power tools better than new?
« Reply #10 on: June 28, 2009, 07:18:39 pm »
Still can't go wrong with Craftsman.

As a professional woodworker, I got to tell you that you can't go right with Craftsman power tools.  Even when their stuff is being made in the same factory as something like Porter Cable or Delta (and most of them are), they just rely on the in house QC guys instead of sending their own guys over there to actually make sure things are done right.  It makes a huge difference.  Their basic hand tools used to be OK (wrenches, screwdrivers, hammers, etc.), back when they still had a lifetime warranty, but even those have gone seriously downhill.


Gabriel

Offline SoundmasterG

  • Level 3
  • ***
  • Posts: 1203
Hoffman Amps Forum image
Re: are old/vintage power tools better than new?
« Reply #11 on: September 16, 2009, 07:18:52 am »
Whenever I get the money and space, I plan to find an old Powermatic table saw like I used in high school wood shop. Those are still the best. Once you've used the good stuff, you just can't go back.

Greg

Offline Dynaflow

  • Level 4
  • *****
  • Posts: 2321
  • Have a cow man!
Hoffman Amps Forum image
Re: are old/vintage power tools better than new?
« Reply #12 on: September 16, 2009, 09:24:21 am »
 You mentioned a jigsaw as well, we had EXTREMELY good luck with the Porter Cable jigsaw we used in a metal shop. It was used daily to prep steel doors from 20 to 16 ga for deadlocks, windows and any manor of intricate cut outs in steel. We'd get a year and a half out of it and then you opened the transmission changed out the caged bearings, put in new gaskets and grease and put another year and a half on it. One of them we had for I bet 6-7 years and it worked flawlessly. The down side of it was the sucker was 250.00 bucks even back then in the 90's. Those HF and cheaper jig saws use cheap bushings and are throw aways IMHO. You can still get some very good tools (Milwaukee etc) but you're gonna pay a premium. We did try a Bosch jigsaw and I have to say it was more of a medium weight saw, light production vs the Porter Cable which was more of a production saw. It seems craftsman power tools are no where near as good as the ones I saw when I was a kid, price rules the roost it appears.

Regards,

Dyna
Making the world deaf 18 watts at a time...

Offline mackie2

  • Level 2
  • **
  • Posts: 166
  • "Follow The Red Wire"
Hoffman Amps Forum image
Re: are old/vintage power tools better than new?
« Reply #13 on: September 16, 2009, 01:45:17 pm »
Dyna

I've been using  my  Porter Cable jig saw 23 years--I have trouble getting blades  with a hook on them--so I  just cut up a nicklson hack saw blade, the hack saw blades last longer anyway.

Mackie2
1/2 a Valve is better than no Valve at all.

Offline Dynaflow

  • Level 4
  • *****
  • Posts: 2321
  • Have a cow man!
Hoffman Amps Forum image
Re: are old/vintage power tools better than new?
« Reply #14 on: September 16, 2009, 04:25:22 pm »
 Yeah they do use that non standard blade, quick to change but you have to buy their's. I bet they do work better (hacksaw blades). We were in a larger city (Sacramento) and went through a industrial supply place to get them, so it was easier for us to get, but pricey, the place was owned by Roseburg lumber so that had the coin to do it. We had to cut the blades down for use on doors as we only had 1 3/4 to play with in depth. Good saws though huh?

Regards,

Dyna
Making the world deaf 18 watts at a time...

 


Choose a link from the
Hoffman Amplifiers parts catalog
Mobile Device
Catalog Link
Yard Sale
Discontinued
Misc. Hardware
What's New Board Building
 Parts
Amp trim
Handles
Lamps
Diodes
Hoffman Turret
 Boards
Channel
Switching
Resistors Fender Eyelet
 Boards
Screws/Nuts
Washers
Jacks/Plugs
Connectors
Misc Eyelet
Boards
Tools
Capacitors Custom Boards
Tubes
Valves
Pots
Knobs
Fuses/Cords Chassis
Tube
Sockets
Switches Wire
Cable


Handy Links
Tube Amp Library
Tube Amp
Schematics library
Design a custom Eyelet or
Turret Board
DIY Layout Creator
File analyzer program
DIY Layout Creator
File library
Transformer Wiring
Diagrams
Hoffmanamps
Facebook page
Hoffman Amplifiers
Discount Program