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Hoffman Amps Forum image Author Topic: Acoustic thru twins normal channel mods?  (Read 5186 times)

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Offline Searing

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Acoustic thru twins normal channel mods?
« on: June 19, 2010, 08:43:21 pm »
Been playing my acoustic through the normal channel of my twin using an lr baggs m1a pup.  Sounds good, but I was wondering if anyone had any ideas on modifying the channel for a better tone for acoustic guitar. Thanks!  

Chris

Offline gldtp99

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Re: Acoustic thru twins normal channel mods?
« Reply #1 on: June 20, 2010, 09:41:56 am »
A friend came over with an acoustic and we plugged him into the Vibrato channel of my '74 SF Twin Reverb and we all thought it sounded fine---- used a little reverb and EQ'd to taste---- guitar was a Sigma with an internal pick-up but no EQ------ i wouldn't think there would be any reason to mod a Twin Reverb for acoustic guitar use. You might try the #2 (padded) input to see if it sounds better than #1, but that's about it.
I've let players use BF Bandmaster and Bassman heads to record acoustic tracks in the studio across the hall from my amp workshop a few times---nice warm, rich tone..................gldtp99

Offline Searing

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Re: Acoustic thru twins normal channel mods?
« Reply #2 on: June 20, 2010, 11:19:13 am »
I would like to cut the mids more.  I think to do this I can increase the value of the slope resistor?

Offline flora

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Re: Acoustic thru twins normal channel mods?
« Reply #3 on: June 20, 2010, 06:30:43 pm »
Try a 5751 , 12AT7, or 12AY7 in V2 to reduce gain.

Offline Fresh_Start

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Re: Acoustic thru twins normal channel mods?
« Reply #4 on: June 20, 2010, 10:58:47 pm »
Duncan's Tone Stack Calculator can eat up HOURS while you experiment with different values.

You also could experiment with a lower cathode bypass cap for one triode or the other (or both) in the Normal channel.  Maybe 2.2uf or 4.7uf for the second triode for starters?  Sure it'll cut bass too, but you can compensate by turning the Bass knob up a bit.  Do you ever have it above "4" normally?

Chip
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Offline LooseChange

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Re: Acoustic thru twins normal channel mods?
« Reply #5 on: June 21, 2010, 05:01:38 am »
In TUT it's suggested to increase the grid leak resistor on the input jack to 5M to 10M.
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Offline Searing

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Re: Acoustic thru twins normal channel mods?
« Reply #6 on: June 24, 2010, 12:06:38 pm »
Is the grid leak resistor the 1meg?  And, what woud this do, chang the current to the tubes grid?  Thanks!

Chris

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Re: Acoustic thru twins normal channel mods?
« Reply #7 on: June 24, 2010, 05:52:58 pm »
Yes, the 1 meg is the "grid leak" or "grid return" resistor.

I know some microphones want to see a lower value.  The LR Baggs website doesn't say directly what the pickup expects (unless "output impedance 800 ohms" tells us something)
http://www.lrbaggs.com/AudioPages/m1a.htm

Before diddling with that resistor, I'd call the pup mfr's tech support to ask.

Instead of trying to answer your question about what the grid leak resistor does, I'll direct you to pages 19-20 of Merlin's "Common Cathode" stage:  http://www.freewebs.com/valvewizard1/gainstage.html.  He explains it better than I would even if I really understood it :wink:

HTH

Chip
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Offline PRR

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Re: Acoustic thru twins normal channel mods?
« Reply #8 on: June 25, 2010, 12:38:21 am »
Baggs is still in business? He done good.

The manual actually says "The M1 Active will plug into practically anything with good results." Word, dude. They selling it, so they don't want it to make it sound bad, yet they don't tell you to do anything special, so it ain't fussy.

> unless "output impedance 800 ohms" tells us something

There's a whole morass of "common assumptions" hidden in this. But it has a battery and it evidently has an amplifier, probably a high-performance chip.

i.e.: it is not a naked Piezo which needs super-high Z loading (it may be a piezo but we deal only with its amplifier), or some funky magnetic which needs to be loaded to tame a winding resonance. It acts like a perfect voltage plus an 800 ohm resistor.

The most likely modern assumption is that you should load with "much higher than 800 ohms", probably meaning over 8,000 ohms. The lowest "instrument inputs" I know are 22K, and "line inputs" are generally over 10K often 22K. And by usual interfacing assumptions, going "lots higher" does no good and no harm. So "practically anything" seems to be covered.

If maximum POWER transfer were essential (basically if amplification were incredibly expensive), then the implication is that you load in 800 ohms (matching). However matching went out of fashion (except in legacy telephones) mid 20th century. Today we buffer and amplify. But just for thought: CR2032 at 3V and 135uA.... some assumptions what they do inside suggests that it can drive a 3K load to high output but a lower load may eat the battery. Due to the transient nature of guitar, this drain may be negligible. It is not impossible it will drive 800 ohms, but if "output impedance 800 ohms" is literally true, the voltage will be down to half. There's reasons to do that, but not for stage-work. Some further observations about low-power chips suggest that it "may" distort more with 800 ohms or less load... or then again it may not. Since very-low impedance inputs are rare, let's not fret.

It appears to be a well designed product. I assume it includes (in pickup or internal circuit) whatever tone-shaping is needed for "nice tone". It should play well through a flat amp.

Given a Fender Twin in good stock condition, the only thing I would do is set the tone controls "flat". Because the Twin was set up for snarly hard-body e-guitar, this means extreme settings.

Turn Mid to 10 (if no knob, change-up the fixed resistor from 6K-15K to like 20K or 50K). Turn Bass and Treb to zero. This gives the Twin a near flat response from jack to room-air. Play with that a long time and get used to it.

Now the reason we carry an amp is for "Bigger!" and "Brighter!" sound. For bigger, sneak-up the bass; for bright bring up the treb. However an honest acoustic in the fingers of a good player with a good pickup should not need a lot of either unless you want very exaggerated tone (which could perhaps be gotten easier with non-acoustic axes). Also the amount of boost you can stand will be limited by acoustic feedback through the guitar body to strings to pickup. If you really want max boom max zing you may have to instead sneak the Mid down. But it seems a shame to do that to a good acoustic instrument's central voice.

 


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