Bought this amp strictly for resale...question.

[BrianS]

Hello folks!

I recently acquired this Maestro GA-1RV amp to resell.  My original intent was to do a power supply upgrade (filter caps, cord, etc...), but once I got my hands on the amp, I could see that it is in what I would call near mint or very good condition.  I don't think this amp was used very much at all & probably spent most of its life in some form of storage.  I did not know this when I agreed to buy it, so was very pleasantly surprised!

Now, I know all about what it takes to make an old amp playable & reliable & this amp needs that attention.  However, my main goal for this amp is to resell.  Would I be better off selling it as is, with all original parts, or going ahead & updating the power supply section first?

Thanks for your advice.

Brian

[Ed_Chambley]

If it is working fine, as is.  If it has a lot of floor noise or ghost notes, then recap it.  That is the way I would prefer to buy it.

[eleventeen]

I would ask the question, "what did you buy it for and what do you expect to sell it for?" Without answering that question, if you don't want to, what is the delta you are expecting, eg; the gain on the sale?

And without answering that, if you don't want to, consider the following equation:

Near-mint + untouched original + still working (even if noisy) >> [is worth a lot more than] recapped. In my opinion.

If you are selling this on ebay (probably the best bet as you will be able to paint a nice picture and show it to the max audience) and yet you'll also be able to say that "anyone who knows" knows this will require caps upon landing. And thus absolve yourself of the responsibility of supplying a perfect amp. "as-is" means the buyer is willing to accept certain, LIMITED faults.

Anyone who is in the market for a neat old tube amp knows it needs recapping, and while it is easy and cheap for you or me or anyone here, IMO what you want is to find a bidder who does not understand that having a bench tech do the work at a music store is a $100 job....but doesn't care. They know, maybe it needs new tubes. Maybe that's a new 6V6 @ $15 for them, maybe they have a 6V6 sitting around so it's "free".

I would sell it "as is". "As-is" is not necessarily a negative...some guys will think "Oh cool, I can have my tech look at it" and derive some value not simply from the amp and the pile of parts, but by the imagined blessing imposed by his/her tech.

Others may and possibly will have a different opinion. The LOWER you sell it for, the LESS ebay will take as their cut. Do not forget they take just shy of 15% of your sale...including your freight!

[BrianS]

Near-mint + untouched original + still working (even if noisy) >> [is worth a lot more than] recapped. In my opinion.

This is basically what I was unsure of.  Honestly, I'd enjoy doing the work, but I have to look at the bottom line first.

I'd rather not go into too much detail, but I will say that I made sure I didn't overpay for the amp & that if I were to invest time & money for the recap, I'd still come out smelling pretty sweet.

Thanks for the insights fellas.  Would love to hear more, too!

[alerich]

Come up with a price point including the maintenance you planned to do and then put it up for sale in its current condition and see if it will fetch more than that figure. If so, sell it without the maintenance work. You can always go back and do the work later - you cannot really undo the work once you have completed it. I don't know any of the particulars about this specific amp model but I see similar brands and models pop up locally on a regular basis at premium prices that seem to languish forever. eBay with its broad audience is the best bet in that regard.

[BrianS]

Yeah, my local market (Minneapolis/St. Paul) seems to be pretty dead...and overpriced.  It's like everyone has there stuff up for sale, but doesn't want to sell it!!

This will be priced to sell, I certainly don't want to hang on to it forever.  I'm thinking somewhere around the $400 mark.

[Ed_Chambley]

I agree with 11teen and I collect a few vintage amps.  Alerich made a very valid point.  Whatever you decide to do, I would post the sale on the Buy Sell and Trade section of a few forums first.  January and February are not the best months for selling collectables as the majority of folks are still paying for Christmas.

Does the amp sound good as is and is it fairly quiet? No ghost notes?  All effects good?  Good toobs?

$400 on ebay is $340 realized, but you never know what can happen.  I have had amps sell on ebay for way more than current value.  Speculators.  There has been a drop in demand, but not that much.  Mainly in the 50 watt and larger.

[eleventeen]

Ebay could achieve that, maybe it's a tad highish...I've seen SF Champs go for nearly $700 which is just ridiculous.

I'm just sorry I didn't buy all the $125 Princeton and Deluxe reverbs I used to run across in the 80's...of course, the same could be said for the $150 Strats I used to buy and sell all the time in the 70's. All day long, as many as you wanted.

[BrianS]

I'm just sorry I didn't buy all the $125 Princeton and Deluxe reverbs I used to run across in the 80's...

My main job is a folk harp builder for a small company here in MN (Stoney End Harps).  One day maybe 12 or 13 years ago, my boss shows me this little amp he bought for $10 at a garage sale.  His intent was to use it to test out some pickups he wanted to mount on harps.  Well, I saw it & said that it was a guitar amp & not the best test bed for our purposes (which was absolutely true) & offered him 20 bucks for the amp.  He sold it to me.

It was a Silver Face Princeton in excellent condition!  Now for the stupid part:  Shortly after I bought the amp, I became heavily into fly fishing.  For all practical purposes I had quit playing guitar & was not doing any luthiery or electronic repair work.  I had a friend who worked with a guy who said he'd give me $200 for the Princeton.  Being an out of the loop fool, I sold it.  Several years later I got back into the whole "guitar world" again and realized what a stupid mistake I had made selling that amp.

tl;dr:  Bought a silver face Princeton for 20 bucks, barely played it, sold it for a measly 200.

Such is life...

[eleventeen]

Don't feel bad. I bought a beautiful 1959 Strat for $125 (in 1980) from under a guy's bed and sold it the next day for $1300. It was the WORST Strat I've ever encountered. I also had a gorgeous 1957 Strat bought for $350 and sold for $650. It'd be worth 25x that today.

[BrianS]

^ouch...

[Steve_P]

That is a reverb converter amp, not just your ordinary practice amp. It hooks to another amp's speaker terminal by a couple of alligator clips. How does it sound like that?

Tube lineup should be a 12ax7, 6bm8 and a 5y3.

[BrianS]

Steve_P,

Yeah, it's a weird circuit/idea.  I haven't tried the amp out yet, as the rectifier tube was missing.  I've got one coming, but it will be a few days.

I've started to wonder if this would be a complimentary amp to something without reverb, like an old Champ or something along those lines.  The only other open back combo I own at this point is a Peavey Bandit (solid state amp), which is at my bassist's house, so I'll have to wait to test that part out as well.

[BrianS]

Don't forget to light limit the amp the first time you try to power it up.   

I will certainly do that.

For the purists that want original amps to place in their museum, let them pay for a non-working amp, list it at double what you think it will sell for.   

   Amps and guitars are meant to be played, not stared at

Amen!!

[Ed_Chambley]

bought a rickenbacker m8e for $$ worth ten times as much. 

Don't forget to light limit the amp the first time you try to power it up.   

IMO, those in know, realize the older amps need to be recapped, and the power cord redone.  This work should not affect the value.   

   For the purists that want original amps to place in their museum, let them pay for a non-working amp, list it at double what you think it will sell for.   

   Amps and guitars are meant to be played, not stared at. 

Yep, and the Shroud of Turin should be used as well.  Amp collectors do play their amps.  You see, if you decide what alterations are to be done to the amp the potential buyer may not approve.  Even if it is as simple as choice in filter caps.  

Collectors are not dumb enough to pay 2 times the price of an amp, but I have seen players do it.  I guess Waylon Jennings Telecaster should be used in a Who concert since it is meant to be played.  Since Keith Urban owns it now, I assume he has hotrodded it for his style.

Am I following your logic correctly?

[Steve_P]

Steve_P,

Yeah, it's a weird circuit/idea.  I haven't tried the amp out yet, as the rectifier tube was missing.  I've got one coming, but it will be a few days.

I've started to wonder if this would be a complimentary amp to something without reverb, like an old Champ or something along those lines.  The only other open back combo I own at this point is a Peavey Bandit (solid state amp), which is at my bassist's house, so I'll have to wait to test that part out as well.

Like I said in the post before yours, that is exactly what it is. 

[alerich]

In the summer of 1980 I moved from PA to GA. To have something to play since I traveled light I bought a silverface Champ and a 1965 Gibson Melody Maker out of the want ads... for $150. Not that they were the greatest guitar or amp on the planet but you know what I mean. Some days I really hate the impact that the internet has had on musical equipment.

[Toxophilite]

A little off topic I know
But interesting

I think the history of an instrument (maybe more so than amps) is an interesting part of it and it should be an ongoing thing ..The instrument gains a life and personality that way as it passes through different hands and plays differnet music

If you were a Zeppelin fan, think of the the difference between :

This is a guitar Jimmy Page kept on a pedestal and never played for 20 years. (cool it's mint)
vs
This is the guitar he played every night and on many albums (Wow, it's been played on so many famous songs and albums and made so many great sounds..It was used to create!)

If they're both the same quality, which really has the most interest, character and life?

Mind you I like big old guitars with character.

Similarily If the 'Shroud of Turin' was kept in a linen closet cause the cloth was sooo fine, and not used as a shroud..who would care about it?? It would be  'the blanket of nothing'
It's only interesting because of the history involved (real or alledged)

I also kind of wish I could get my hands on one of the gazillion instruments not being played in collections around the world..It makes it harder for the everyday fellow to find/ afford the cool stuff

I'm not saying collecting is bad or wrong, just venturing an opinion

It's also interesting how the possesions of artist/musicians can gain a holy religious icon significance to their fans.

[Ed_Chambley]

The original post was simply
Bought this amp strictly for resale...question.

He received the amp in a great condition.  Did not mention history of the amp.  Simply asked opinion to determine how he could flip it for profit.

Since I buy (collect) amps I simply said I would prefer it in original condition if it is working ok.  We have not gotten that far since he needs a tube to check.  Where I may be wrong is to value.

See, I am not sure what is worth more to those who does not collect amps.  A new exact replica if this cool little amp, or the original.  The idea of recapping because it is time with no test is what is suggested often.

Putting aside collectivity and any history that could be associated with the old amp, If profit is the main concern why would anyone consider spending money before checking the amp out the way it is.  Why spend money to potentially make the amp worth less.

Filter caps are more resilient then are given credit.  I reform antique caps often.  The reason techs immediately replace them is it is cheaper than trying to reform them or search for a period correct match.

It gets a lot easier when you consider collectable automobiles.  That old flathead engine is outdated and has problems.  I have a small block chevy running gear I can put in it.  It will only cost me $4000 and make the car worth way less, but it will a better car.  Then I can sell it.

[smackoj]

re: selling stuff via internet. I am not sure that it's all the net's fault regarding the prices but I'm pretty sure the cost to ship (fuel eaters) and ebay's policy of allowing free posting has certainly had a neg. effect. I sure could have made some great buys if I was willing to drive cross country to do 'local pickup only' !

 

[BrianS]

Ed,

I certainly appreciate your point of view & input, and at this point, am in agreement with your assessment.

Filter caps are more resilient then are given credit.  I reform antique caps often.  The reason techs immediately replace them is it is cheaper than trying to reform them or search for a period correct match.

I have to wonder how many arguments filter caps have caused on this board over the years?     

I am curious, when you say "reform", are you talking about putting the amp on variac & bringing the voltages up slowly over time, or is there another process I may not be familiar with?

Thanks again to everyone.

[Ed_Chambley]

Brian,
Here is a great thread from the Metro Forum about reforming old filter caps in Marshall amps, but the idea is the same for any amp.

http://forum.metroamp.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=8396&sid=e65c01c6c0571aeef7b1b9d84acf7539

I also use a variac for old radio stuff, but I have begun using this method on filter caps on amps I find which have not been used in a while.

I just bought a 5c1 Champion.  All original, mint.  Used the resistor method and the amp plays great.  I too think it is a good idea to replace filter caps in amps, but when I find a little jewel I try not to.

Also, some caps I have reformed you cannot get anymore.  I am speaking of voltage now.

I do not want to seem overbearing, but I would love to have found this amp.

[BrianS]

Here is a great thread from the Metro Forum about reforming old filter caps in Marshall amps, but the idea is the same for any amp.

You, know, I was really hoping that I would not have to go to any other forums for amp info! 

Thanks for that link...You learn something new everyday!

[Ed_Chambley]

Here is a great thread from the Metro Forum about reforming old filter caps in Marshall amps, but the idea is the same for any amp.

You, know, I was really hoping that I would not have to go to any other forums for amp info! 

Thanks for that link...You learn something new everyday!

I could have explained it, but the link is one of the best descriptions I have seen as there are a lot of questions from other members.  I thought this may answer your questions as well.

I can just copy and paste if you prefer.

The Metro Forum was a great place until loads of industry folks began trying to sell their services.  That is when I came here.  It has gotten better in the last few months.  Two of the worst were banned.  They are Marshall Fanatics and will do anything to keep amps original.  If you noticed they believe by forming filter caps old or new will generate less floor noise.  This is debatable.  A lot of the guys I think highly of say there s no benefit in forming new caps.  I still do it because it can't hurt and could possibly help.  To me it seems like a good practice if you have the time and patience.