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Hoffman Amps Forum image Author Topic: Laney lion heart l20h output transformer upgrade?  (Read 8156 times)

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Offline matt117

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Laney lion heart l20h output transformer upgrade?
« on: July 10, 2015, 09:05:54 am »
Wondering if you guys would know of a beefed up output transformer I could put in my amp?
Thanks

Offline shooter

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Re: Laney lion heart l20h output transformer upgrade?
« Reply #1 on: July 10, 2015, 10:41:40 am »
could start here;
Went Class C for efficiency

Offline PRR

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Re: Laney lion heart l20h output transformer upgrade?
« Reply #2 on: July 10, 2015, 06:28:12 pm »
Welcome to the forum.

Lion Heart L20H appears to be a 20-Watt amp? How "beefy" does it need to be? Why do you want more beef? Is it burnt-up? Flabby bass? Or just too light to use on windy days?

My guess is that "any" of the 2*EL84 or 2*6V6 OTs will work in there. There's little iron from old pretty-cabinet phonographs and chunky iron for small-but-impressive hi-fi rigs.

Hammond 1650F or 1650H are pretty beefy, 4 or 6 pounds.
http://www.hammondmfg.com/1608.htm

Offline shooter

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Re: Laney lion heart l20h output transformer upgrade?
« Reply #3 on: July 10, 2015, 08:48:01 pm »
Quote
That's not a picture of the 85kg bass OT, is it?

It's a bass OT, think the article said 29kg, so maybe it's baby bro?
I just googled big output tranny tube, was the 1st pic that looked cool
Went Class C for efficiency

Offline matt117

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Re: Laney lion heart l20h output transformer upgrade?
« Reply #4 on: July 11, 2015, 07:01:03 pm »
It's a parallel single ended amplifier. It has 4 el84 tubes, producing ~20watts. 5watts per tube.
I'm looking for more bass. I have the bass on my amp turned up all the way, it's not enough. It's running into a 25watt greenback. Now my friend left his ac15 here for a week and even the vox has a deeper sound to it, and I've read people complaining the lack of bass they have in those. His amp also has the 25watt greenback.

Looking for more bass - more of a presence in the sound. It's all mids and treble.
Will those Hammond transformers still work?

Offline shooter

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Re: Laney lion heart l20h output transformer upgrade?
« Reply #5 on: July 11, 2015, 07:35:47 pm »
I built a QuadSE EL84 a couple years ago, I used an edcor CXSE25-4-1.25K

My "design" was more audiophile, but the musicians that played tru it really liked the sound.  they played with a OD pedal, and ran it into a 2X12 cab. I used 220uF caps on 2 tubes, 470uF caps on the other 2, each tube with it's own 100 ohm Cathode R.

I attached a schematic, but I did make some changes that didn't get documented, anyway, fwiw.

dave
Went Class C for efficiency

Offline John

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Re: Laney lion heart l20h output transformer upgrade?
« Reply #6 on: July 11, 2015, 07:38:55 pm »
Matt, before you buy transformers, have you tried increasing the cathode bypass caps? Especially in the preamp, that'll give you lots more bass.
Tapping into the inner tube.

Offline matt117

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Re: Laney lion heart l20h output transformer upgrade?
« Reply #7 on: July 11, 2015, 08:40:31 pm »
Matt, before you buy transformers, have you tried increasing the cathode bypass caps? Especially in the preamp, that'll give you lots more bass.

I have not. I am not familiar with the insides of amps. I'd like to get into it - just as long as it's not charged - need to learn. Any good resources or how to?

Offline John

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Re: Laney lion heart l20h output transformer upgrade?
« Reply #8 on: July 11, 2015, 09:56:54 pm »
Sure, read a lot. :) Check out the thread titled useful references, it's stickied. Get a decent multi meter, you don't need a Fluke, I've been using a Klein for years, and honestly any cheapo digital will serve you fine to start out. You'll always want to make sure your filter caps have drained after turning off the amp.






Before you solder anything, build yourself a lamp limiter (google for images) and ask Sluckey for the link to his scrapbook, very useful item.


I'm not familiar with Laney amps, so don't know how easy it is to get the chassis outside of the cab. Hopefully not bad. Make yourself a cradle to hold it upside down so you can poke at the insides. I've used 4x4 pieces and just laid it on those already.


Use little alligator clips to parallel the cathode bypass caps across the cathode resistors. If you can, find a schematic for it. If you can't , tell us what tubes it uses in the preamp (I assume 12AX7) and we'll tell you what pins are what. All this is way easier and pennies on the dollar compared to replacing the OT.


If or when you measure voltages with the amp turned on, ALWAYS use a clip to connect your black lead to ground so you can keep one hand behind your back while probing with the red lead for voltages. Even if you get nailed somehow, it won't kill you. Or at least it hasn't me, yet. If the voltage goes across your chest though (from one hand to the other), you might be toast.


If it were me, I'd do some research, read a lot, look at lots of pictures and keep playing guitar through it till you feel good about opening it up. Try to find some kind of manual on it.


Be careful. I just needed  to replace some caps and resistors in an old amp I had, and 5 years later, I got a milkhouse full of meters and testers and projects  and iron and all kinds of stuff. :icon_biggrin:
Tapping into the inner tube.

Offline John

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Re: Laney lion heart l20h output transformer upgrade?
« Reply #9 on: July 11, 2015, 10:04:28 pm »
Hmm, just saw a gut shot of the amp. Glad it's yours, not mine... I'm allergic to printed circuit boards.  :icon_biggrin:
Tapping into the inner tube.

Offline matt117

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Re: Laney lion heart l20h output transformer upgrade?
« Reply #10 on: July 11, 2015, 10:49:21 pm »
Might need some help with identifying the bypass caps and how to hook up to them in parallel "Use little alligator clips to parallel the cathode bypass caps across the cathode resistor"
It's 3 12ax7

Yeah I wish i had a hand wired amp... Would be sweet.

Offline matt117

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Re: Laney lion heart l20h output transformer upgrade?
« Reply #11 on: July 11, 2015, 10:50:04 pm »
I'll post pics later of my amps guts

Offline PRR

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Re: Laney lion heart l20h output transformer upgrade?
« Reply #12 on: July 12, 2015, 12:20:11 am »
There is no neat/cheap (even affordable) 4*EL84 20W _SE_ OT on the market.

While the OT *could* be involved in bass shortage, I consider that unproven until the rest of the amp is investigated. Guitar amps are often "tuned" with shaved bass for better/bigger "scream".

And IMHO, if you want powerful bass, a push-pull amp is a much better path. The OT of a SE amp is highly stressed with DC current, which conflicts with extended bass.

Offline VMS

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Re: Laney lion heart l20h output transformer upgrade?
« Reply #13 on: July 12, 2015, 02:27:41 am »
To find out if the lack of bass comes from preamp or power amp, you could try the amp by connecting different preamp in fx-loop return.


Offline John

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Re: Laney lion heart l20h output transformer upgrade?
« Reply #14 on: July 12, 2015, 05:25:19 am »
I was browsing some forums that came up regarding your amp, Matt. Overall very positive reviews, but more than a few comments said the damp sounded "dark".  I'm wondering, have you tried different guitars and maybe a couple different speakers? It could be even be as simple as trying a different brand of preamp tube... someone said theirs sounded better with Tung Sols, I think.


Anyway, after seeing the insides I'd try everything external I could, first. VMS has a great idea there!
Tapping into the inner tube.

Offline matt117

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Re: Laney lion heart l20h output transformer upgrade?
« Reply #15 on: July 12, 2015, 11:59:22 am »
To find out if the lack of bass comes from preamp or power amp, you could try the amp by connecting different preamp in fx-loop return.

I don't have another pre amp to run thru it tho.. No rack mount or anything. Just have the ac15 around temporarily. How would I do this??

Offline matt117

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Re: Laney lion heart l20h output transformer upgrade?
« Reply #16 on: July 12, 2015, 12:01:36 pm »
I was browsing some forums that came up regarding your amp, Matt. Overall very positive reviews, but more than a few comments said the damp sounded "dark".  I'm wondering, have you tried different guitars and maybe a couple different speakers? It could be even be as simple as trying a different brand of preamp tube... someone said theirs sounded better with Tung Sols, I think.


Anyway, after seeing the insides I'd try everything external I could, first. VMS has a great idea there!

Yeah I've heard about others saying it's dark but I don't find mine to be. I've read that complaint associated more with the 5watt version.
I currently have the amp decked out with all tung sol tubes.
I have a weber 12f150b speaker kicking around I could try out again.

Have you seen the insides or would you still like pics? If so I'll get some today

Offline John

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Re: Laney lion heart l20h output transformer upgrade?
« Reply #17 on: July 12, 2015, 01:12:30 pm »
No, I saw someone else's pics of the insides.
Tapping into the inner tube.

Offline matt117

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Re: Laney lion heart l20h output transformer upgrade?
« Reply #18 on: July 13, 2015, 09:10:20 am »
No, I saw someone else's pics of the insides.

Thinking a speaker swap to a 55hz cone will do? A g12h30 hertitage

Offline John

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Re: Laney lion heart l20h output transformer upgrade?
« Reply #19 on: July 13, 2015, 03:14:10 pm »
No, I saw someone else's pics of the insides.

Thinking a speaker swap to a 55hz cone will do? A g12h30 hertitage


Beats me, I know nothing about speakers. I run $50 Webers.  :icon_biggrin:
Tapping into the inner tube.

Offline matt117

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Re: Laney lion heart l20h output transformer upgrade?
« Reply #20 on: July 14, 2015, 11:06:41 pm »
I'll look into speakers first I think.
I probably wouldn't go as far as changing the circuit to pp. I'd ponder playing with the tone stack..
Amps like vox ac30 would be a pp tho hey?
Wondering if single ended isn't my thing.. Or if the speaker change will help..
I'll try to find out what my transformer is wound too.
Wish my amp was more well known so others knew it better then me.


 


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