Thoughts on Mercury Magnetic Transformers vs Others?

[MoparWade]

I am getting ready to buy the transformers for my AB763 Twin Reverb build. I see articles saying that the Mercury Magnetic transformers are the only way to go and I see others that say they don't really matter. I only know that they are more than twice the price of the Hammond transformers that I have been looking at. Does anyone have any input/suggestions on this?

[eleventeen]

No personal direct experience, but the gen'l consensus around here I have read on several prior threads on this topic is that they are overpriced. I am sure others will weigh in.

[MoparWade]

Thanks eleventeen. Even if I get no other responses that is extremely helpful.

[Mike_J]

If you want a specific OT that is not real common, for example a copy of the Tweed Twin OT then Mercury would be a good way to go because it would probably be hard to get a copy of that transformer otherwise.  However, if you want a very good, reasonably priced transformer then I think Magnetic components, Inc. Classictone transformers are the way to go.  If you want to have a transformer made to your own personal specifications then Heyboer is best because they are the only company that will do one-offs and they also are pretty reasonably priced.


Thanks
Mike

[John]

MM has done a great job of marketing and building their brand (no disrespect intended, either). I read comments of "they'll last forever". From what I can fathom, almost any decent transformer will last "forever" for the average guitarist unless severely abused.


Now, if you're trying to justify the $10,000 price tag on an amp you're building, MM is a must. 

[MoparWade]

Thanks Mike and John. The ClassicTones are certainly priced nicely. I am not trying to justify a $10,000 price tag but I would like component quality that would sound like a $10,000 amp.

[ratgon]

The first two kits I built used Mercury Magnetics. The third kit used Classic Tone. I've been using all Classic tones for all the Hoffman builds I've done but, of course, I haven't actually heard any of them yet. Point is I really don't know how to compare them. I will say that the two kits I built, both from guytronix.com. Sound great. Overall just really amazing tone for a 1/2 watt (upgradable to 2 with a output tube swap) and an 8 watt. The  tone stack or should I say simply tone knob has the the single widest sweep of and tone control I've ever heard. It's incredible.

[Fresh_Start]

I built two nearly identical Princeton Reverbs. Same speaker in each. First had Mercury Magnetics iron because that's what my buddy thought he needed.  Second had Doug Hoffman's transformer set. We played both amps side by side. Very close, but mine with the Hoffman transformers sounds a little bit more clear and responsive.

You also will have a very hard time getting straight answers out of Meecury Magnetics about basic specs like secondary voltages and/or power rating of a power transformer. "We cloned the best ______ we could find" was the answer I kept getting. With the MM "clones" you may find that your B+ is substantially higher than vintage voltage specs because of higher wall voltages today.

For a smaller amp like a Princeton or Champ, I think that the MM output transformers may be over-built. But that's true of a lot of "improved" output transformers - especially Hammond and Allen. For a Twin though I don't think that's an issue. There bigger really is better. I put Mercury Magnetics iron in a Super Reverb build for a jazz player and he loves the amp. For my money, I'm sure that Hoffman's transformers would be just as good.

Right now I'm collecting parts for a Tweed Deluxe. It will have ClassicTone transformers because I can get the voltage and power rating I want for the PT, and the OT actually is as under-built as the originals - at least according to Internet experts    I did order an OT from Hoffman too in case I feel a need to compare the two.


If you can buy MM iron at the 25+ pieces prices, it may be worth it for marketing purposes. OTOH if you're building for yourself and have to pay full retail, fugetaboutit. (Note: I got a deal both times I bought MM iron)


Respectfully,
Chip

[Mike_J]

Right now I'm collecting parts for a Tweed Deluxe. It will have ClassicTone transformers because I can get the voltage and power rating I want for the PT, and the OT actually is as under-built as the originals - at least according to Internet experts    I did order an OT from Hoffman too in case I feel a need to compare the two.

I would suggest spending a little more for their 40-18078 PT.  It has 330-0-330 taps and their other Tweed Deluxe transformer 40-18021 has only 355-0-355 taps as I recall which is a little high for the circuit in my opinion and reports of other people that have used the transformer with the higher voltages.


Thanks
Mike

[Fresh_Start]

 

Right now I'm collecting parts for a Tweed Deluxe. It will have ClassicTone transformers because I can get the voltage and power rating I want for the PT, and the OT actually is as under-built as the originals - at least according to Internet experts    I did order an OT from Hoffman too in case I feel a need to compare the two.

I would suggest spending a little more for their 40-18078 PT.  It has 330-0-330 taps and their other Tweed Deluxe transformer 40-18021 has only 355-0-355 taps as I recall which is a little high for the circuit in my opinion and reports of other people that have used the transformer with the higher voltages.


Thanks
Mike

I already ordered the 40-18078 with the 330-0-330 secondary HV taps and 100 ma rating. Thanks though!


Chip

[MoparWade]

Thanks guys. I went with the ClassicTone.

[DummyLoad]

what's wrong with the iron hoffman sells?

--pete

[MoparWade]

Nothing, just want to use as few Fender parts as possible. I feel like it's cheating.

[Fresh_Start]

what's wrong with the iron hoffman sells?

--pete

Absolutely nothing, particularly for an AB763 Twin. In fact, I would prefer to use Hoffman transformers for any Blackface Fender, 18 Watt or other build except for Tweeds.

Chip

[Ed_Chambley]

I use the often by request.  Patrick has always been very responsive in providing specs.  The price listed on their site is designed to protect distributors and builders.  I promise you I do not pay anywhere near the listed price.  Classictone is selling direct through a couple of distributors and list those cheap prices which is fine, but it makes it impossible to markup parts.

Sure, MM has cloned transformers, but the also make some overbuilt so it is all it what you are doing.  If you purchase a set of Black Face Deluxe transformers Mercury, the Iron will also run 6L6 tubes, whereas you would be taxing a Classictone.

For instance, I have a Princeton Reverb built with MM tranny's.  I can get a lot of different wattage using different Rectifiers and power tubes.  I can go from less that 20 watts up to 36. 
Yep, they are expensive Retail.

I see Heybour transformers resold where distributors can make some money and the amp tech can add a little as well.  In the event you do happen to get a bad transformer, and I have, if you sent it to MM and they will check it and if it was a failure they will replace it with a new unit.  I had a supro build with one on it that was 6 years old and it failed.  Sent it to them and got a new one.

I have gotten transformers from Doug, but keep in mine he states on the bottom of the page that the transformers are factory tested and he has never gotten a bad one.  He does not take returns on them because he has no way of knowing if you installed it properly.  When you get it it is yours.

OTOH, Heybour will check a return and replace defective units.  Quite a few of Doug's Transformers come from Heybour.

If Mercury Magnetics took the route of Classictone and said to hell with distributors they could sell for less as well.  What I think is funny is Mercury Magnetics Marketed to the player and not the tech and I know players who look for them in Boutique amps and also buy their "upgraded Sets" and bring them to me to install.  They are always thrilled.

Hammond Transformers are very good quality, but they are more expensive than Classictone.
There are a lot of good transformers like Edcor.

I hear a lot of praise for Classictone, but it is because of price.  If all were the same price opinions would be much different.  The reason I say this is I have a friend who builds amps who bashes Mercury and how bad their transformers are.  Then he found someone selling one he needed on Craigslist.  Still cost more than a Classistone, but was almost as cheap.

He immediately built an amp using it and brags about it all the time.

Buy what you want.  There are slight differences in tone, but not much.

Sears is closing and I am old too.  I prefer the old way when the advertised price was 30 to50% more than someone in the field can purchase, then I can make a little money on the part because if it does fail I am covered if I use Heybour or Mercury and I made a little markup on each I do.  If one does fail, and they do, the profit I have made on markup pays for my time to replace the failed unit.

[floyd]

Since my wife left me for another woman.. I've been buying Mercury Magnetics, just to piss her off.

[mresistor]

Since my wife left me for another woman.. I've been buying Mercury Magnetics, just to piss her off.

Gee Floyd, I fail to see how that post even relates.     As far as Classic tone. I have used several of their transformers and have wound up with 60hz hum that is unacceptable. And it weren't my wiring or build technique as I have built same amps with other iron without a problem. Not trying to slam them at all, but that is my experience.

[sluckey]

Been a while since he posted anything that relates to this forum. He just likes to drive by and take a pop shot occasionally.

[MoparWade]

I guess I should be grateful that he found my post worthy of his nonsensical ramblings. To everyone else thank you for your feedback.

[mresistor]

Thanks for the heads up. Happy weekend everyone!

[floyd]

sorry guys.. really , i wasn't trying to step on sensitive amp toes.. just sayin that the woman that my wife left me for,  preferred MM transformers. Ok ?

[floyd]

Happy Weeekend Everyone

[drew]

I promise you I do not pay anywhere near the listed price. 

How does that work?  You've bought enough of them that they put you on a "nice price" list or something?

[Fresh_Start]

I promise you I do not pay anywhere near the listed price. 

How does that work?  You've bought enough of them that they put you on a "nice price" list or something?

You buy 10 pieces cumulatively and start getting a discount. Chokes and reverb trannies don't count. Hit 25 and you get a good discount - like price on par with Hoffman's or a bit lower IRRC.  There may be even bigger price breaks or other deals with more volume.

So Mercury Magnetics has a really good business model. They market to end users. They price for builders and repair shops with volume. I've seen boo-teek amps marketed with a price jump if you want to "upgrade" to MM iron. Customer is happy because he's paying more to get "the very best."  Amp builder/repair tech is very happy because he is making bigger profit and has product support down the road he can really count on. And the product is very good.

Respectfully,
Chip

[kagliostro]

I've never had a Mewrcury Magnetics under hands, but a friend of mine that builds his own transformers has dismanted one

and told it is nothing of special as construction, surely overpriced

Franco

[clyde]

Manufacturers and volume builders get a better discount than 25-piece pricing, which already gives the product price equivalency with most everything else available.  Mercury has unrivalled diversity and has done their homework to attain such.  Want a power transformer for a Sunn Solarus?- (which I recently required), they have both models.  How about an OPT for the DeArmond amp recently under discussion?  They have one and another with multiple secondaries.  A catalogue like this takes a lot of dedication and investment. 
I recently sent a pair of Celestion OPT's to MM for evaluation.  These are extremely rare and they'd never seen them before.  One was buzzing and they re-varnished and baked it for me, buzz gone, cost zero.  It was much appreciated. 
Several years ago I did an OPT shootout with a few friends.  They didn't know what they were listening to but all chose the MM Radiospares over the other equivalent contestants, a very noticeable difference.  Ever heard the Radiospares?  It's one of my very favourite for many different applications.       

[Mike_J]

Another option is to use the less expensive iron for the PT and get the MM iron for the choke and OT.  I did that for my Overdrive Special and Steel String Singer builds and am very happy with the tone. Patrick seems very knowledgeable as to which transformer should be used with the amp you are cloning and I have found his advice to be useful.


The voltages supplied by the PT are right in line with where they should be so I don't see a need to spend more to get the voltages.  The mentioned builds are both 100 watts so an oversized PT was not applicable.  However, if you wanted to have the choice of using either 6V6s or 6L6s you could probably buy a PT from Classictone or Doug that is meant for use with 6L6s and has voltages that would work for a 6V6.  A Super Reverb or Tweed Bassman PT comes to mind as if I remember correctly they are 325-0-325 which would work for either tube.  Disadvantage can be that it is sometimes advantageous to have a transformer on the low end of acceptable mA ratings, for example the Tweed Deluxe transformer discussed above. 


I had a PT custom made for my Sluckey inspired Plexi/800 build with a 450mA PT.  Original was 290mA.  Amp seems somewhat cleaner than the vintage amps so I am thinking the heavier iron has something to do with it.  In fact I had two PTs made.  Still have one on the shelf that would have to be used for a Fender Twin build. another Steel String Singer clone or something of that nature.  Don't think I would do another Marshall build with that rated iron.


Thanks
Mike

[Ed_Chambley]

I promise you I do not pay anywhere near the listed price. 

How does that work?  You've bought enough of them that they put you on a "nice price" list or something?

Or simply have a friend who buys enough and add to his order.

I also got one on ebay a while back.  It is a Ashdown FA-40 PT which you will not find on Mercury's website.  Very nice PT with loads of taps.  New in box $35.  The 40 Watt Fallen Angel is a 4 EL84.

A lot of guys simply find a PT that covers their requirements.  Usually works fine.  Reading a lot about Ken Fisher's ideas and thoughts on High Current/Low voltage convinced me to try similar.  I got a Edcor cause I can wait.  I built a 6V6 Wreck.  It run EL34 as well.  The difference in the attack is amazing. 

Mercury makes good stuff, but so does Edcor and Edcor's Blue is prettier to me than Mercury Red.

[alerich]

I hear a lot of praise for Classic Tone, but it is because of price.

That's a fair comment and you do hear that often. Classic Tone makes nice iron, period. It's good sounding, reliable and reasonably priced. I built a Marshall JCM800 50W clone with CT iron and it sounds essentially identical side by side to my buddy's early 80s JCM800 that everyone around Carroll County uses as a benchmark for tone. If you want to build a Marshall clone that accurately captures the tone of the original Drake iron I think CT is the way to go.

For years I was one of those "iron is iron" guys who felt that Mercury iron was overpriced and not worth the difference. Then I bought two amps that both were outfitted with Mercury iron. One stock from the factory (Soldano Hot Rod 50) and one that had been upgraded (Sovtek Mig60). These are both relatively close derivatives of the JCM800 circuit but the tone of both of those amps is much smoother than the JCM800 clone. The Sovtek was a major upgrade over the stock Russian iron I have heard in stock Mig60 amps. I have barely touched the JCM800 since I bought the Soldano. It's my daily player.

I would really like to build the stock Marshall 2204 circuit with Mercury iron just to see the impact for myself. Sometimes you shoot your foot off upgrading iron. I replaced the stock OT in my PRRI with one of those BillM replacement OT's and promptly put it back. It did give the amp more headroom but it gave up too much of the Princeton tone I loved. Certain transformers just sound right in certain amps. Better is not always better.

I am in no hurry to rip the Mercury transformers out of those two amps.