Welcome To the Hoffman Amplifiers Forum

September 08, 2025, 01:04:04 pm
guest image
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
-User Name
-Password



Hoffman Amps Forum image Author Topic: anyone every use a 6AH4 GT as a driver in a se amp?  (Read 3656 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline ALBATROS1234

  • Level 2
  • **
  • Posts: 484
  • I love Tube amps
Hoffman Amps Forum image
anyone every use a 6AH4 GT as a driver in a se amp?
« on: December 05, 2019, 05:27:03 am »
i have a couple amps that are works in progress and experimental guitar tone machines. i always try to experiment to see what tones i can get. i have a few nos rca 6ah4 and the are a low mu single triode with 7.5 make plate diss and 500v max b+ so it occured to me maybe use that as a driver after a preamp tube. type of pre amp tube maybe a 6SL7 or 6SJ7 in a se config with a 6L6g . my thinking is even if it is only a mu of like 8 it can push some current and perhaps add a little beef to the tone of a typical se circuit. anyone do anything like this 6ah4 i also have a ken rad 6n7 which i have seen in some late 30s and 40s guitar amp circuits. i thought about using one of these in parallel for beef . it seems like a good idea in my irrational brain, was just wondering if anyone has tryed this approach or if anyone knows of designs using a similar principal in using a preamp with an extra gain stage of a lo mu hi current driver to push the power tube just a bit more than a typical 2 tube (3 with rectifier) it seems like it could add tonal texture and girth potentially .all input appreciated, i am just a tube nut that like to experiment and see what different things yield and i wonder if many others are doing similar or thinking similar so i posted. cheers.

Offline PRR

  • Level 5
  • *******
  • Posts: 17082
  • Maine USA
Hoffman Amps Forum image
Re: anyone every use a 6AH4 GT as a driver in a se amp?
« Reply #1 on: December 05, 2019, 11:20:27 am »
http://www.nj7p.org/Tubes/PDFs/Frank/093-GE/6AH4GT.pdf

An SE power tube in a rational design needs under 1/10mA to drive the grid resistor (the grid itself much less). To get full value from a 6AH4 you want to run it near 30mA, near as much as many SE power tubes, and 0.1mA/30mA is a shocking waste of power. Also needs significantly more B+ filter cost. And the gain missed by Mu=8 has to be made-up somewhere, perhaps with an added stage.

Go ahead. But I don't think it will flog an SE stage "more", or not enough to justify even the minor added expenses.

Offline kagliostro

  • Level 5
  • *******
  • Posts: 7740
Hoffman Amps Forum image
Re: anyone every use a 6AH4 GT as a driver in a se amp?
« Reply #2 on: December 05, 2019, 02:11:07 pm »
This Is a question for those who are more skilled than I'm

What about to use the 6ah4 as a CF as to Place a TS in a circuit like a 5C1 ?

6sj7  > 6ah4 (CF) > TS > The Power Section

Franco
The world is a nice place if there is health and there are friends

Offline PRR

  • Level 5
  • *******
  • Posts: 17082
  • Maine USA
Hoffman Amps Forum image
Re: anyone every use a 6AH4 GT as a driver in a se amp?
« Reply #3 on: December 05, 2019, 04:57:50 pm »
5C1 has barely enough gain as it is. Tonestack is a loss. CF has no gain. I don't see this being good.

Offline kagliostro

  • Level 5
  • *******
  • Posts: 7740
Hoffman Amps Forum image
Re: anyone every use a 6AH4 GT as a driver in a se amp?
« Reply #4 on: December 05, 2019, 05:24:47 pm »
The point was exactly that

There is enough gain but not a tone control

a CF has no gain but act as an impedance adaptor between the pentode and the Tone Control

This was what I was thinking

Franco
The world is a nice place if there is health and there are friends

Offline Greg

  • Level 2
  • **
  • Posts: 106
Hoffman Amps Forum image
Re: anyone every use a 6AH4 GT as a driver in a se amp?
« Reply #5 on: December 05, 2019, 09:58:22 pm »
When you say Ģif anyone knows of designs using a similar principal using a preamp with an extra gain stage of a lo mu hi current driver to push the power tube just a bit more than a typical 2 tubeģ I would say yes but not on those exact terms.

I've seen an old design using a lo-mu triode (a 6C5 or 6J5) for make-up gain after a 6SJ7 in a 6L6 SE amplifier (was it a Masco?). Just an ordinary RC coupled voltage amplifier, not at all a current driver like it appears to be needed for AB2 PP drive. But I have a few ideas... 

You (I if I were you) could still use your 6N7 and the 6AH4 for a finite (kind of) design for a small amp (assuming you don't source any more of those tubes). The 6AH4 as a small power triode, using the small Hammond one size-fit-all SE 3 watt 8 ohm tap at 2500 ohms that almost everybody has with a small 4 ohm, 6 or 8" speaker. It might be a gamble, but it seems like it could work or be tweaked to sound good for what it is. The rectifier could even be one of those TV half wave rectifiers (if you have one). I would build a circuit around them if I had a good batch of them and these principles of recycling/saving tubes or energy was a motto of the vintage amp maker, it seems to me, rather than the modern one. Anyways, the ripple might not get that bad through a small speaker and you need to drop to 300V (The text says 250V). 

The 6N7 could be used as a pre-amp for two succeeding gain stages sharing its cathode, a bit like the old way of the paraphase inverter circuit in RCA manuals or early Gibson. Fenders. But this time, a bit different since the second triode is not being fed with unity gain but with the full rated gain of the first section, separated by a volume control. I don't think it might cause oscillation problems at that gain level...Maybe on high volume? Suppose it's ok... Sure nobody think it will sound like beef... More like gremlin's beef... A valid sound if you don't already have an amp that fits that role. Some people love vinyls for the cracking sound and short bandwith. Bad engineering in that case would rather mean ignoring safety and allowing the possibility of total auto-destruction of the whole amplifier plus, if not lucky, the whole appartment/house building & neighbors with half a dozen people waiting on the street with blankets freezing at minus 30°C in my part of the country.
                                                                                                                         
The 6N7 could make a dual power section on its own, for a class B PP operation under certain conditions (like I've read that it has to be played loud to have a clean sound. But it felt like it could be interesting for guitar energy-wise and sound wise. I was interested in it, one time... I looked at the old Stancor manuals numbers and I never found any used transformer for this on E-bay.

With little more investing, the 6N7 can be also, a PP drive or parallel into a transformer for class AB2 using two 6L6G push pull, and using the 6AH4 as a voltage regulator to hold the 6L6's screens at their rated 270V or so textbook voltage. That's could be interesting but again, finding the transformers could be a challenge! I know few willing to design around those concepts when not having a good batch of those tubes and right replacements parts lying around...
« Last Edit: December 05, 2019, 11:00:35 pm by Greg »

Offline PRR

  • Level 5
  • *******
  • Posts: 17082
  • Maine USA
Hoffman Amps Forum image
Re: anyone every use a 6AH4 GT as a driver in a se amp?
« Reply #6 on: December 06, 2019, 12:11:20 am »
> a CF has no gain but act as an impedance adaptor

The CF has no voltage gain. It has current gain. Usually this is not real useful. In *this* cut/paste scheme, it "does add voltage gain" indirectly. If we hung the ~~200k load of a tone-stack on the poor 6J7, its gain would drop from 140 to 93. Buffering with cathode follower lets 6J7 get gain near 140 again. Only getting back to where Leo had it.

Still the tonestack loss raises how hard you have to pick to get full use of the 6V6.

Draw it out. Do the simple math. Say 6V6 needs 20V peak drive. The less-loss version of the Fender Stack (from AA-Champ) has loss of about 6:1. So whatever drives the tonestack must deliver 120V peak!!. That will not happen with ~~200V B+ on TS driver, not-really with 300V of B+.

Follow-through to the input. Buffered 6J7 has gain near 140, 120V/140 is 0.9V peak input. "Most good" g-amps only need 0.03V pk to get full power out. 5C1 is an early cheap starter amp and needs 0.15V to slam the 6V6 (make the student WORK). Nobody will be happy with 0.9V sensitivity.

Offline ALBATROS1234

  • Level 2
  • **
  • Posts: 484
  • I love Tube amps
Hoffman Amps Forum image
Re: anyone every use a 6AH4 GT as a driver in a se amp?
« Reply #7 on: December 06, 2019, 11:02:22 am »
Thanks guys, some stuff to think on. Sometimes I just look at my tube stash , some of which was obtained buying cheap lots and I look up unfamiliar tubes which puts me onto "what can I use this for ? and will there be a different or interesting tone benefit" I truly need to learn more tube theory. Right now I know how the basic amp designs work  , how to troubleshoot most common issues and what I have to change to get more or less treble and bass within the designs. I love simple amps usually I use a simple treble cut tone and just what components are needed. To me it gives a more pure tone where the guitars tonal differences can be heard. All of the modern tube amps I have played through although sound good many times seem to blur the guitars natural tone and it's hard to tell a difference between diff guitar type. With an old design amp it seems like the guitars shine more.

Offline kagliostro

  • Level 5
  • *******
  • Posts: 7740
Hoffman Amps Forum image
Re: anyone every use a 6AH4 GT as a driver in a se amp?
« Reply #8 on: December 08, 2019, 07:58:46 pm »
I did a brief search on the web

it seems that the greatest interest in that tube is due to HiFi enthusiasts, I have not found schematics that uses it in guitar amp

or, better, if you are interested on building a standalone preamp (may be not an HiFi one) with line output seems it's your tube

http://vinylsavor.blogspot.com/2011/05/octal-preamplifier-mk2-circuit.html

http://vinylsavor.blogspot.com/2012/06/making-of-6ah4-line-stage-circuit.html

https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=124911.0

Franco
The world is a nice place if there is health and there are friends

 


Choose a link from the
Hoffman Amplifiers parts catalog
Mobile Device
Catalog Link
Yard Sale
Discontinued
Misc. Hardware
What's New Board Building
 Parts
Amp trim
Handles
Lamps
Diodes
Hoffman Turret
 Boards
Channel
Switching
Resistors Fender Eyelet
 Boards
Screws/Nuts
Washers
Jacks/Plugs
Connectors
Misc Eyelet
Boards
Tools
Capacitors Custom Boards
Tubes
Valves
Pots
Knobs
Fuses/Cords Chassis
Tube
Sockets
Switches Wire
Cable


Handy Links
Tube Amp Library
Tube Amp
Schematics library
Design a custom Eyelet or
Turret Board
DIY Layout Creator
File analyzer program
DIY Layout Creator
File library
Transformer Wiring
Diagrams
Hoffmanamps
Facebook page
Hoffman Amplifiers
Discount Program


password