esr values

[eternalpurple]

I am still very new to this and just recently ordered an LCR meter. Just to get a jump on things I decided go online and down load a Capacitor worst case (Chuck out) chart. After spending no small amount of time looking I have come the the conclusion that these numbers must be a closely held inner circle secret. Does anyone know where a person might download or buy a chart or book that would give these values?  Thanks

[jojokeo]

Are you speaking of an ESR chart/table like below?

[eternalpurple]

Are you speaking of an ESR chart/table like below?

Yes....thank you. That is the best I have found so far. But what if you have a 100uf 350V electrolytic ( I have many amps with them in the power supply ) what do you do then? Am I to assume that there is no correlation between esr and the condition of capacitors of higher uf and voltage? 

[Ed_Chambley]

Certainly a lot to Fender amp have this cap in series as the Reservior Cap.  In amps generally hum will increase and a noticable loosening of the lower notes.  The only time I have ever use an equivalent series resistance (ESR) meter is problems with switch mode power supplies on a piece of machinery, amps are not really precision.  All they do is overheat and bulge and sometimes if left sitting the will explide when I flip the switch.   I play with radios from the 30's often.


Am I to assume that there is no correlation between esr and the condition of capacitors of higher uf and voltage?


No, do not assume this.  Simply refer to a datasheet for the brand and part of cap you have.  Lately I have see a lot of posts on ESR meters, which are nice to use since you can test withing the circuit.  I just have never used on on an amp simply becaue I am generally repairing one in this situation.  If the Electrolytics are 10 years old or more, I just replace them while servicing. It just makes sense while I have the chassis out. I don't think I would ever use old electrylytics if building a new amp.


I not sure, but I think the gray areas on the chart Jojokeo posted might mean the value are the same as the above number.  In other owrds, this may be as low as it goes.


Then again, I may be full of crap and if so one of the folks will stop by and let us know.

[jojokeo]

I not sure, but I think the gray areas on the chart Jojokeo posted might mean the value are the same as the above number.  In other owrds, this may be as low as it goes.


Then again, I may be full of crap and if so one of the folks will stop by and let us know.

I think these grey areas are just "not applicable" due to the size & corresponding rating?

You may be full Ed and a total kook as I've found out, but definitely not with "crap"!

(kook = keeper of old knowledge) you often come up with stuff in our conversations that continue to surprise, but I have learned to not be with you. Per recent discussion - too bad the human mind doesn't have an external hard drive for back-up! 

[birt]

i use my ESR meter on every amp i open. if ESR seems high, the cap goes out, even if it was still working well. (next to extremely old and broken caps that get replaced anyway) normally i only fix what is broken but high ESR tells me it's about to break in some way anyway.

as Ed said, you don't need it. but it doesn't hurt to use it.

for the grey area's look at the rest of the chart and make an educated guess. if your 100uF 350V cap measures 5 ohm you can be pretty sure it's not OK. i just checked a few 10uF 450V caps. all measured under 1 ohm. two 22uF 550V caps were 0,7 ohm. it's not in the chart but you can guess they are fine by looking at the other data in the chart.

[Ed_Chambley]

I not sure, but I think the gray areas on the chart Jojokeo posted might mean the value are the same as the above number.  In other owrds, this may be as low as it goes.


Then again, I may be full of crap and if so one of the folks will stop by and let us know.

I think these grey areas are just "not applicable" due to the size & corresponding rating?

You may be full Ed and a total kook as I've found out, but definitely not with "crap"!

(kook = keeper of old knowledge) you often come up with stuff in our conversations that continue to surprise, but I have learned to not be with you. Per recent discussion - too bad the human mind doesn't have an external hard drive for back-up! 

Birt,
great comment.  If you have it, use it.




Well I may be a Keeper of old knowledge, but I like to think I am rather kooky too.


The things I come up with are due to split pesonalities.  One is the guy that says, yea babe it's worth more than I paid so we are actually more financially stable since I bought it.  Very common guitar player comment!


Number 2 hates putting little boards and switches in boxes even though I gert lucky sometimes and breadboard a cool pedal.


And #3 is attached.  "you got a 400 watt tube amp?"  lemme crank that baby.
Number 3 is often wrong, but he is the most fun.  He says things Whatever Dude and hey guys watch this.


Today, I will go with #3 and take your word for the non-applicable.

[kagliostro]

Today arrived the cheap (Made in China) Multi Function Tester (with ESR Function) I ordered few days ago

I didn't ordered the meter here, but the item is the same (I ordered it in Italy from a China seller)

https://www.ebay.com/itm/2017-Transistor-Tester-TFT-Diode-Triode-Capacitance-Meter-LCR-ESR-NPN-PNP-MOSFET-/182170556129



I was looking for a bit of documentation (the China tester didn't come with instructions or explanation with it)

and I found interesting the Manual of a professional ESR Meter, the Atlas ESR⁺ - model ESR70

Here is the manual
http://www.peakelec.co.uk/resources/esr70_userguide_en.pdf

and here the reference table




I think this can be used also as a general reference using an ESR Meter

Franco

[trobbins]

Yeh, I'd expect some variation between different makes of meter, and note that ambient temp can move ESR around, and always double check readings to see if a poor clip connection has influenced the reading.

I'd just be using that type of meter for gross bad indication, unless you are repeatedly testing the same model / size of cap and have a good recollection of past reading values.  I guess you could use the meter as an acceptance test for a batch of new caps, and may get some superficial confidence from hand selecting 'lower ESR' and higher uF parts for your special amp build - but I'd be sceptical as to whether those readings told the full story as to why there may be reading differences with a batch of parts. 

[kagliostro]

I've a large collection of NOS e-caps and also a box full of nice and expensive used ones that I would like to know if usable or not

not the search for a perfect value measure, only an indication to guess about the opportunity to use the cap

Franco