Suggestions for New Small Build 5W

[Spock]

Hi guys, I'm new here. Hopefully this is in the appropriate forum, my apologies if not.

I was shopping for an amp. I'm not a professonal, just a guy that has a hobby of playing, building, and modding guitars. I have no intentions of playing any shows ever. So I want something small that wont wreck my ears or windows.

I thought I had found the perfect amp to buy in the Supro 64 Reverb 1605RJ. Had everything I was looking for. Small, separate gain & master volume knobs for playing high gain at low volume, reverb, some EQ. And it sounds great. Anyways, the amp is priced at $999. I decided to reach out to Supro and dig up a bit of info on the amp to find out why its so much more expensive than other tube amps of its size. And I found out, that there is absolutely no reason for it to be. Its "assembled" in China with global components(previously would have been assembled in USA up until 2020, no longer the case and you'll not find this info on their website or anything mentioning where their products are made after 2020). And i'm gonna go out on a limb and assume that its mostly Chinese made components on PCB since its not advertised as being hand wired. Only has a 1 year warranty, 2 if registered. And they will not supply a schematic for you to potentially service it yourself should something fail outside of warranty. Kinda hard to justify dropping a grand on a 5 watt made in China amp. If I'm gonna buy Chinese crap it better have a Chinese crap price. Could buy the 15 watt Monoprice amp for a quarter of the price. Dang thing is probably made on an assembly line right next to the Supro.

So I decided to hell with it, I'm just gonna build one. Source my own USA made components, and make sure its top notch. And I could probably make it happen a lot cheaper than a grand I just dont know where to find a proper build to suit my needs/desires. I would like something as close to the Supro 1605R as possible. small size, low wattage with separate gain and master volume is very important reverb would be amazing but not a must. So looking for something a bit more complicated than a 5F1 champ build. Doesnt need to be a Supro design or anything.

What would you folks suggest might fit the bill?

Thank you in advance.

[bmccowan]

Well, since you liked the sound of the Supro, I'd consider sticking with that basic idea. The new ones are modeled after the 1950s, 60s 5watt Valcos (Supro, National, Gretsch and others.) They are similar to Fender Champs of the same vintage but have a few differences including lower B+ voltage. Sluckey drew up a schematic and layout for a forum member. Its at Sluckeyamps.com People here can advise how to add a MV and reverb, but I would not choose to do either myself. There are lots of other options too, like the SoLow amps that have several threads here. Regardless of the route you choose, please read up on safety if you are not already familiar.

[echuta13]

The problem with what you are looking for is that although most 5 watt amps are pretty simple, the reverb would add complication.  Not saying that you can't go that route, but if you haven't build an amp before, it's better to go the KISS route.
Something like a 5F2a Princeton, Valco Comet, or Gibson GA-5 (they all have their own distinct sound & they're all very modifiable).

[dwinstonwood]

This may not be in the direction you're looking, but I built a Vox AC4 and added the Fender Vibro Champ Tremolo to it. It's a cool little amp.

You can take a look at my drawings:

[tubeswell]

... I was shopping for an amp. ... the Supro 64 Reverb 1605RJ. ... is priced at $999. ... So I'm just gonna build one. Source my own USA made components, ... And I could probably make it happen a lot cheaper than a grand ...

Hmmm, you might or might not be able to make that work for you, once you buy all the bits (and/or tool-up and make some of the bits). Look at the available comparable kits and what people say about them. You might find buying that Supro works out the same in the end. YMMV

But if you want the experience of DIY and are prepared to persevere with the mistakes, and the learnings, go for broke. What you don't buy or can't obtain by buying, you'll need to make.

Example of off-the-shelf kit(s)

Weber SE amp kit https://www.tedweber.com/5f2h-c-kt/ US$675 plus shipping, which doesn't have a reverb module, but you could hash up something by get a reverb kit (for say $295 https://www.amplifiedparts.com/products/effects-kit-mod-electronics-wave-spring-reverb) and stick it into a rack/or home made cabinet that can taken both chassis. Not saying this is the way I'd necessarily go about it for a 1st build, and no responsibility or guarantee implied in any of my suggestions

Edit: my advice is start with something simple (like the Weber single-ended amp above), and think about adding reverb later. That way, you're less likely to get discouraged by troubleshooting problems (because there'll be fewer sources of problems). You'll still need tools like soldering iron, needle nose pliers, wire cutters and wire stripper, spanners, screwdrivers, at least 1 multi-meter, probably a drill and bits (the weber kits are the cheapest type and often you need to make one or two extra holes in the chassis) and a few other bits and pieces like rubber grommets or a better quality lamp holder. See - its starting to add up already)

[Spock]

Thanks for the responses guys. A couple of things, I'm not dead set on the reverb by any means. If it complicates it too much I'm perfectly happy living without. Im mostly concerned with sound quality, size, and volume. I think 5 watts will be too much amp for me without a gain/MV set up to keep it at bedroom levels. Most of my playing, due to a weird work schedule, happens after midnight in my garage when the rest of the house and neighborhood are asleep. So I dont want something I cant crank enough to get that lovely tube crunch out of without needing ear plugs, being concerned about people sleeping in the house, or the neighbors.

I was actually just looking at micro/nano amps. Little 1 watt or .5 watt tube amps. Didnt even know they existed til now. Are there any good DIY options for these little guys? Was just watching a review on a little chinese amp called a Wang VT-1H. Be cool to build something like that but in a 1 piece combo unit pushing an 8" speaker. The Zvex Nano Head looks cool too, but ffs is WAY too it expensive for what it is $519 for a 0.5 watt amp that can fit in the palm of your hand. Not sure what these people are smoking, but it must be good lol.

As far as my skill level, I'm not by any means a complete newb to DIY or electronics. Have a nice multimeter, a few nice soldering irons, wire strippers, and probably lost more tools than most have bought lol. Went to school for industrial electronics, though thats been about 15 years or so ago and mostly forgotten if I'm honest lol. Certainly no pro, but I can read schematics, do continuity testing, check voltage, current, and resistance, solder, I've installed electronics in multiple guitars, done a bit of home wiring, HVAC, appliances, automotive wiring etc.. I'd venture to say I'm much better equipped to take on a project like this than most beginners. Where I will struggle is the mathematics side of things. Ohms Law is simple enough, but beyond that I'll likely be watching a lot of youtube lol. I will have plenty to learn, for sure, but nothing I cant handle. Metal fab and woodworking are both skills I have under my belt as well so no concerns there, either.

[tubeswell]

... I'm not by any means a complete newb to DIY or electronics. ...Went to school for industrial electronics, though thats been about 15 years or so ago and mostly forgotten if I'm honest lol.

FAQ and recommended reading lists here: https://el34world.com/Forum/index.php?topic=3273.0


The site on this link may be very useful for you: http://www.valvewizard.co.uk

[bmccowan]

Since you are thinking on what direction to take, which is much smarter than just jumping in, and you mention 1W amps, you may want to add these to your research: https://robrobinette.com/Champ_Micro.htm https://robrobinette.com/Deluxe_Micro.htm Rob has done quite a bit with micro amps and his documentation is thorough. You are right that 5 watts can be damn loud - I'm just not a fan of MVs in small single ended amps. But others are - we are an opinionated bunch.

[Bieworm]

I built the JTM145 a while back. It's 2W and still friggin loud... the 10% power switch makes that great amp into a crappy box..
Just saying.. but very cheap to build and great amp after all!!

[Joel]

I know this post will appear to be negative.  But it's intended in a kindly spirit, please read it in this way. 

If you're getting into building valve amps just to save money, you're in for a shock.  You guys in the US have it much better than we do here in Australia, but it's still expensive.  Don't forget the cabinet!  Or the chassis!  They're expensive to buy, especially USA made.  Time consuming to make from scratch, and require different skills and tools that building the amp circuit.

The biggest mistake new DIYers make is discounting their time too much.  How much is your time worth to you?  Lets say you price your spare time at a mere $10/hour.  Lets say your amp takes 100 hours to build - thats $1000, not including parts and shipping - and extra parts because you made an expensive mistake and fried your transformer (it happens, plan for it).  It's almost certain you will have made a mistake when building.  Fault-finding is very frustrating and time consuming - I know from bitter experience.  If you get lucky it's just the extra time you waste.  If you're unlucky, you fry your transformers, or tubes.  You never fry the cheap components...  ask me how I know... :-(  The $100 transformer always blows to save the 0.50c fuse.

Futhermore, building an amp from scratch is like building Rome.  It doesn't happen in a day.  And every hour you spend building an amp is an hour you spend not doing something else.  This is further amplified (boom, boom), by family obligations, work commitments, etc.  Next thing you know that 100 hour build time has taken over a year to squeeze into your life.  And to achieve that you've sacrificed your midnight guitar playing sessions (hopefully that and not your family), which was the whole reason to start building in the first place.

Now, you may end up loving building amps as a hobby and take it further.  But, I highly suggest that you sit down and *analyse* your life as well as the finances. 

Choice 1. Buy the damn amp.
Cost - $1000. 
Advantage - Get to play immediately.  Enjoy the sweet tones!
Disadvantage - you play in D minor, the saddest of all keys, for a year because of the hit to your wallet.

Choice 2. Build the damn amp.
Cost - time, 100 hours over a year = $1000 at a miserly $10/hour.  Kit or parts - 2/3 of the price of the amp you originally wanted, say $650.  Total $1650.
Advantage - maybe you gain a new hobby, and hopefully a working amp.
Disadvantage - the time has to come from somewhere.  I've found it's from other hobbies, so no more midnight guitar playing for a year = rusty guitar skills.

Just some food for thought.

Edit: spelling.

[bmccowan]

Oh no - a life coach. BTW, don't cook your own food, it takes time, not to mention money spent on pots and pans. And don't go fishing, just buy the damn fish at the market. The boat, the motor that keeps breaking down, the gas, the oil, good grief! And for god's sake don't ride motorcycles or bicycles - take Uber. You can put all of these things into a handy dandy life coach spreadsheet and live a much more efficient life. 

[cliffs_trip]

Hahahaha, He thinks he is gonna build just 1!

What's a life coach? I'm too busy making my own decisions to research it.  Nevermind, don't care, stick to amps.

[shooter]

You can put all of these things into a handy dandy life coach spreadsheet

OR....
go outside and play 

[RadioComm]

I'm into philosophy 

If you're getting into building valve amps just to save money, you're in for a shock. 

Absolutely a hobby! Definitely a labor of love. But what a fun and rewarding one, even more so if you play an instrument and you enjoy great tone.

Choice 1. Buy the damn amp.
...   
Advantage - Enjoy the sweet tones!
Disadvantage - ... hit to your wallet.

As you stated Rome wasn't built overnight, just like playing an instrument, it won't happen overnight. If you're a musician with a fine tuned ear, building, tweaking, and understanding an amp gives you a lot of control over the sound you are seeking, and well worth spending the time and money understanding your amp.

And yet another option is finding a good deal on a used amp and tweaking it. There are plenty of amps out there that are very "tweak-able". Certainly plenty of articles on mods... Here is a link to some of Steve Aloha's (RIP Steve, and thanks again for sharing) articles on mods:

Top level link and browse around the treasure chest:
https://blueguitar.net/

Direct link to some of the arcticles:
https://blueguitar.net/articles.htm

This page has schematics and mods:
https://blueguitar.net/schems.htm

Yes, takes time and money, but can be very rewarding. And as you build Rome slowly, and spending more time and money as you go along, it only gets more rewarding.

ttfn

[shooter]

as you build Rome slowly, and spending more time and money as you go along, it only gets more rewarding.

until you start hearin  fiddle music   

[RadioComm]

 

as you build Rome slowly, and spending more time and money as you go along, it only gets more rewarding.

until you start hearin  fiddle music 

  Good one! Never had a project go up in smoke... Yet...

[Joel]

If you're getting into building valve amps just to save money, you're in for a shock. 

Absolutely a hobby! Definitely a labor of love. But what a fun and rewarding one, even more so if you play an instrument and you enjoy great tone.

Then I wish you the best of luck and I look forward to seeing the end result! 

The last amp I built was a 5W amp that morphed from a Tweed Princeton, through heavy modifications to "improve" it, then landed on something based on the old AX84 "Core" designs.  Clean (+added gain option) to a basic 5W SE output.  I had a spare WGS ET65 (way overkill), so that got thrown in the cab.  And it's just a magic little amp for clean to edge of breakup blues. 

[pbl4845]

I feel the same way! Seems a pretty nice and well featured amp! But with Chinese quality controls!

I have tracked people with reverb died on 2 weeks, and blown tubes on the reverb.

Maybe this can help you as inspiration, let me know if you decide to build one, I’m in the market for a 2nd hand one…but might be open to build one myself, maybe we can get rid of the PCB and make it point to point, doesn’t seems to be a complicated circuit.
I found the schematics in the gear page forum(repost them in here)

[pullshocks]

Thanks for posting the 1605R schematic.  I am really interested in designs with the capacitor driven reverb.


From the schematic it looks like the volume and reverb pots are dual ganged.  P1B is volume, P1A varies the cathode bypass on the V1B.  But I found a gut shot and they look like single pots.... (14) Daydreaming about amps… | Page 3 | Telecaster Guitar Forum (tdpri.com)

[waldner]

I've thought about building the Rob Robinette Deluxe Micro EF80.  I'm a fan of 5E3 based amps and this one seems pretty cool.   He also has documentation for some tweaks like switchable NFB (negative feedback), diode or tube rectification, bypass switch for altering the character of the preamp section and you may even be able to incorporate a master volume, though it may not be necessary at just 1 watt.

There is even a Hoffman board file so that you can get the turret board (and many of the parts) here from Doug.

https://robrobinette.com/Deluxe_Micro.htm#Deluxe_Micro_EF80

This version is simplified with a single 12AU7 self split power tube and a master volume:
https://robrobinette.com/images/Guitar/Deluxe_Micro/Deluxe_Micro_Push-Pull.png


By the way, if you do want to purchase an inexpensive but terrific sounding amp, I highly recommend the Wangs Mini 5.  It's stupid good sounding.  Make sure to get version 3 because they did have some issues with earlier versions.  $250 including shipping.  You can probably build a Deluxe Micro amp AND buy the Wangs for the same price you would have paid for the Supro.

[Jennings]

Some great suggestions already (I was also thinking Vox AC4 at first)…just wanted to mention that I E got one of those Wangs VT-1H heads. I tube rolled a bit, and paired it with a little Hotone cab in my office. Surprising big and full sound. Good tone with different guitars and pedals too. I use it loads as a little jam and demo setup 👍 So I find little nick heads can be useful and not just a bit of a toy/gimmick.

[pbl4845]

Thanks for posting the 1605R schematic.  I am really interested in designs with the capacitor driven reverb.


From the schematic it looks like the volume and reverb pots are dual ganged.  P1B is volume, P1A varies the cathode bypass on the V1B.  But I found a gut shot and they look like single pots.... (14) Daydreaming about amps… | Page 3 | Telecaster Guitar Forum (tdpri.com)

There are parts of the schematics I still don't understand to be honest!
But you are right they look single like single pots and schematics have to many  potentiometers compared to the pictures,  also Power Tube is labeled V5 on the Schematic and V4 on the PCB 😬

[pbl4845]

....interesting! digging into this forum I have found this threat of a guy who already build one ....aldo it looks like the old one, no fancy stuff like the wet and  dry outputs....this guy added an FX loop himself
https://el34world.com/Forum/index.php?topic=28204.msg310679#msg310679

[pullshocks]

....interesting! digging into this forum I have found this threat of a guy who already build one ....aldo it looks like the old one, no fancy stuff like the wet and  dry outputs....this guy added an FX loop himself
https://el34world.com/Forum/index.php?topic=28204.msg310679#msg310679

Looks like that is a push/pull amp, not a single ended

[pullshocks]

At the risk of getting off topic, for anyone interested in the original (push/pull) Supro 1605R this Reverb listing has a couple gut shots.  The power amp and preamp are in separate chassis.
1965 Supro 1605R vintage w/ reverb, serviced, Valco Chicago 35, Mike Ness, Social Distortion | Reverb

[JPK]

Wonder what happened to Spock? I wanted to follow is Supro build. 

[pbl4845]

Maybe you were right at the beginning. “Custom made dual gangs potentiometers” min 1:45

https://m.youtube.com/watch?t=01m42s&v=DBRjTjxiUts&feature=youtu.be

@pullshots  is not off topic, it has so much value! Thanks!

[bmccowan]

Wonder what happened to Spock?

I'm guessing it got too emotional for him.

[JPK]

Wonder what happened to Spock?

I'm guessing it got too emotional for him.

That's logical. His mother was human.

[Tone Junkie]

Come on guys amp buildings no fun till you let the smoke out of a transformer. Lol